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I’d rather not listen to Berlioz if that’s ok
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09-17-2019 01:44 PM
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I think Chris Potter's soloing is closer to Coltrane than to Berlioz, but that's just me.
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Originally Posted by Robertkoa
answering your question ..
I don't care.. honestly. I don's how Kenny G can play, I don't care about what Pat said about him and how right or wrong he was and especially I do not care about circular breathing.
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Originally Posted by jbernstein91
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Oh - that reminds me:
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Originally Posted by Robertkoa
Last edited by rictroll; 09-17-2019 at 09:47 PM.
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Originally Posted by Robertkoa
When I heard him play live he did a Guitar/Drum duet where he burned his ass off, kind of like McLaughlin likes to do with his super baddie drummers. Pat used hammer-ons and pull-offs where John would use pick strokes, but he did/does it masterfully and with great fire and zeal. He knows exactly what he's doing and can really go when he wants to! He was super fast, liked greased lighting. I'd never heard him play like that before, and was surprised.
And regarding an "improv play off" with Kenny G... well, people tend to be better at what they do, as opposed to not do. If one spends his life playing jazz changes and the other doesn't, why would we think that the latter would fare as well, or even better?
Such a presumption seems baseless.
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Originally Posted by jbernstein91
Parker is also said to have stolen most of Kenny G’s licks, (who is actually 97 years old, but well preserved) leaving him with no option but to then invent smooth jazz, along with relieving audiences of the burden of listening to troublesome and confusing chord changes, as well as insomnia.
And that, as Paul Harvey used to say, is the rest of the story..... Good Day!
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Pat and a lot of other people are down on Kenny G for having had the presumptuousness to overdub himself on Louis Armstrong's classic "What A Wonderful World". In this interview, Pat refers to the track as "musical necrophilia."
As for whether Kenny can play jazz for real, yes, he can, and it has nothing to do with circular breathing. Listen to any of the early Jeff Lorber Fusion releases for Kenny Gorelick's great sax playing before he adopted the Musak-ified musical persona of "Kenny G." Despite Pat's scathing critique, I really like Kenny Gorelick's playing on the early Lorber Fusion stuff; it's soulful and hip. The Kenny G discs I can do without.
Here are some of my favorite early Lorber tunes, in no particular order.
There's no sax solo on Spur of the Moment, but the vid shows album credits with KG's real name, plus he co-wrote this song with Lorber and Danny Wilson:
Kenny's kinda Coltrane-esque solo starts at 3:25:
Kenny's solo at 1:35 - melodic, nice phrasing, a different vibe than what's in the previous tune; i.e. he plays to fit the song. Which is why I can't fathom how he went from stuff like this to pablum like Songbird... I guess money talks.
Sax solo starts at 3:27 - not too flashy, not dull either, fits the laid-back vibe of the tune.
Kenny's nice flute solo starts at 2:39.
Last edited by starjasmine; 09-18-2019 at 01:13 AM.
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Not meaning to hijack the thread, but here's a really entertaining discussion about the whole "Pat vs. Kenny" dustup...
Did Kenny G respond to Pat Metheny? - Straight Dope Message Board
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Between Kenny and Pat, I know for sure who I would rather play like, whose musicianship I would rather possess.
But I can't quite make up my mind about which head of hair I would rather have (if it's some sort of package deal).
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Just curious, a few here seem to have mentioned the "G" word in referring to Pat.
No, not Kenny G., but "genius"
I kinda like to reserve that term in jazz circles for cats like Duke, Bird, Monk, Miles, y'know, the innovative giants. I wouldn't even put Wes on that list and I adore his playing. Wes was a phenomenal player, maybe the greatest jazz guitarist and hugely influential but that doesn't necessarily tick the genius box for me. To me he was a brilliant linstrumentalist.
As I mentioned, not a fan of PM, but can certainly appreciate his musicianship, you'd have to he blind, well, at least deaf not to recognize that.
Not hearing the genius, just imo, carry on.....
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Originally Posted by wintermoon
I can name a few as an example - those that I would call genius: Chopin (but not Schumann - though I prefer him definitely - so genius does not necessarily means that his music is interesting from point of view of its contents), Schubert, Debussy, Wagner... in jazz Bird, Trane, Duke, Bill Evans, Monk... Miles to me was more genius as personality in musica --- arranger of musical life maybe... he had fantastic sense of form, musical stream, musical integrity and leadership... he was genius.
I think Django had sparkle of genius but not Wes or Jim Hall - again it does not make them lower from my point of view - maybe even quite the opposite.. - they were great human gifts for me...
In general people seem to drop word 'genius' too often... as well as 'great' - everyone seems to be great.
They often use 'genius' as an equivelent os 'something I like very very much'
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
Kenny CAN play (I am reliably informed) - but the idea of him putting some serious fuck you jazz of that kind into one of his live shows is entirely risible.
Pat has always sought to bridge the jazz world with a wider listenership and seems to have done so without compromise to his musical expression. The fact I’m not a huge fan of this material doesn’t alter that.
Kenny on the other hand does his thing.
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
Last edited by Gabor; 09-18-2019 at 06:07 AM.
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Originally Posted by jaco
It is far from trashing It is actually more than dozen extremely admiring sentence on LC, and only one very polite, conditional thought about what we should not do in general. I am not into PM, but I really think the shame on LC and not on PM this case. Maybe I am hypersensitive to this, but making one himself/herself on the spotlight (and optionally making money) on other's achievements, values, death or tragedy is definitely a no do. The whole world can remember and admire Wes legacy even in daily basis by listening Wes recordings. No one can think he/her playing over Wes is necessary for this. The overdubbing thing is particularly sensitive, because overdubbed artist has no chance to agree or disagree...
Here is PMs opinion on LC from PMs official web site:
(Pat Metheny : Question & Answer)
"hi mark,
thanks for writing in. larry will always, ALWAYS remain an early favorite for me - his playing with gary burton in the 60's revolutionized everything, and in particular the way he played on the record "gary burton quartet live in concert" from carnegie hall which contains some of the most creative and important jazz guitar playing of all time.
so, yes, i was shocked and disappointed when i heard that it was larry (when i heard it on the radio i didn't even recognize it as him) that had made that version of wes's "bumpin on sunset" - which actually happens to be one of my favorite wes tracks ever so i was extra bugged by it.
but whatever, i know larry is just trying to do good things with music, maybe a producer thought it was a good idea or something - but we are in an era that just because we CAN do some things technologically speaking that maybe we couldn't before - it doesn't mean that it is really a good idea to go ahead and do them. i've made a few goofs in this area of implementing new technology and in the excitement of it found that it wasn't a great solution to a musical problem myself over the years, quite honestly.
i have not really heard larry that much over the past years, but i know that wertico plays with him once a year or so and always comes back saying how much he enjoys it. there is no doubt in my mind that larry is playing fantastic and i would love to hear him again soon. good luck with your music!
best from pat m."
Last edited by Gabor; 09-18-2019 at 07:24 AM.
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Originally Posted by DMgolf66
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Originally Posted by starjasmine
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Originally Posted by Jonah
Last edited by lawson-stone; 09-19-2019 at 11:29 AM.
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Originally Posted by Lark
Check out Bright Size Life, it is his best, by far. And then Rejoicing.
Fantastic albums with some killer rhythm sections as well.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by Gabor
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I think PM ( for me ) probably deserves the Genius title because he was asked to be on the UM Jazz Faculty at a very young age .Really understood Music in general.But had to work really hard on the Guitar itself to play fluidly etc. I can relate to that part ... I think it's cool that he has made a lot of money playing Guitar- probably the rarest 'skill ' of all...When you hear me play - you crabs in the basket won't even believe it's me-
Robert Scorpio Preston - it's harmonically expanded R&B , and the PianoGuitar is just complex fingerpicking with a little more groove.
Most Jazz Guitarists will have trouble with the tight time and the chops ...and the larger wide stretch chords ....Last edited by Robertkoa; 12-28-2020 at 04:53 PM.
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"think PM ( for me ) probably deserves the Genius title because he was asked to be on the UM Jazz Faculty at a very young age ."
That constitutes genius?
Um, ok
RIP Nick Gravenites
Today, 05:48 PM in The Players