The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Posts 76 to 100 of 268
  1. #76

    User Info Menu

    Everyone hears his own music and each musician has his own level, regardless of how much he plays. It is important how much practice he does behind the scenes.

    Especially if it seems to you that it sounds corny, it's good, it means that you can do better! Take his work and modify it so that it is amazing. It will be great!

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #77

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by FatPick
    In the Jaco biography I read, they said ...
    Although the Pistorius biography that I read was discredited by the Pastorius family, there was a statement that after the graveside ceremony dispersed Pat Metheny remained alone and quietly by graveside in deep thought. That struck me as very respectful and that PM was saddened about the untimely passing of Jaco Pastorius and the terrible circumstances surrounding his passing. Perhaps Metheny recognized that without Jaco Pastorius on BSL Metheny might have faded into relative obscurity.

    I found the vignette caused me to reflect that Metheny held Jaco Pastorius in high regard and was deeply moved at the passing of Jaco.

  4. #78

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Dave Holland's Conference of the Birds, maybe?
    Thanks for refreshing my somewhat aged memory.

  5. #79

    User Info Menu

    There are original compositions by PMG - the specific language and style of arrangement they (he) developed and there is soloing of Pat Metheny... those are are different things for me.

    I enjoy first sometimes though sometimes it gets too corny to me (but on the other hand it clearly reflects a specific part of American musical landscape - coming from Copeland through Glass and that merged into soundtrack music - in geeneral I feel it often like 'pop-music tryng to look serious' some of Bill Frisell's music feels the same way for me but Bill is not that pretencious as Pat and that covers it - you can clearly feel that he does just what he loves whatever it is, with Pat it is like he wants to bring message, to be represantative of something etc.)

    But there is also PM as improvizor - I can't say I always deeply like his style but I definitely appreciate it and I can really dig it... but he is prolific inventive genuine and JAZZ improvizor which is often overshadowed by the overall soundscape of PMG music.

  6. #80

    User Info Menu

    Has anyone met the hair? Is it pretentious or just bad taste?

  7. #81

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by DMgolf66
    Has anyone met the hair? Is it pretentious or just bad taste?
    Ha, I dunno what's more pretentious, PM's hair or discussing PM's hair.

    One thing, he doesn't look like a nerd, and doesn't sound like a nerd, unlike millennials jazz guitarists.

  8. #82

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    ...One thing, he doesn't look like a nerd, and doesn't sound like a nerd, unlike millennials jazz guitarists.
    Dunno, compared with cool players from the past, he kinda does sound like a nerd, and kinda looks like one too... well, to me at least, but then, I'm pretty cool !

  9. #83

    User Info Menu

    PMs is clearly a massive dweeb and I mean that with love.

    (To be fair he does the thing of not giving a stuff what anyone thinks of him or his occasionally batshit projects which is sort of the dweeby way of actually being cool)

  10. #84

    User Info Menu

    Ha, I dunno what's more pretentious, PM's hair or discussing PM's hair.
    I think discussing PM's hair could be quite sophisticated salon topic in the early 20th century London...
    for Paris though it could seem too blatant perhaps which in turn makes it even more sophisticated for Londoners.

  11. #85

    User Info Menu

    I'm still recovering from the sight of those hot-pants...

  12. #86

    User Info Menu

    if only Pat had intoduced Kenny on stage as special guest id forgive the hair and hot pants..but Kenny has to get on his knees and kiss his A..

  13. #87

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    I think discussing PM's hair could be quite sophisticated salon topic in the early 20th century London...
    for Paris though it could seem too blatant perhaps which in turn makes it even more sophisticated for Londoners.
    Maybe. But in the early 21st century jazz forum, where data shows many are born in the early 20th century, maybe they secretly would love to have that haircut... or any haircut at all, I suspect. So I dunno, good for PM's to have that 'problem' still for his age.

  14. #88

    User Info Menu

    The man is a true original, amazing writer, unique voice and definitely NOT to be placed in the "smooth jazz" category. Try playing his tunes, including the odd time signatures, melodies, slash chords, make it sound good, craft a melodic solo that ties those changes together and then compare that to a Kenny G or Peter White tune. No comparison.

    I seriously doubt that he tried to dampen his own talent to appeal to a wider audience; it's simply what he heard in his head at the time. You can look at his movie soundtrack output, try playing his solo acoustic tunes, marvel at his simple but complex voicings and just generally look at how many firsts he accomplished as a guitarist to realize, that, like him or not, he is a musical giant.

    I'm not sure of the point of these posts, either. Certainly fine to not like him, but why is that even worth beginning a post? I don't like canned asparagus, is anybody with me? Is that even worth the energy to type? Is it not more productive to examine someone's talents and contributions and why they work, than to state your distaste publicly? Has the OP appreciated anything different from these responses, or chosen to investigate Metheny's work in a different way, to see why he is admired by so many?

    I met Pat in '74 when he was on tour with Burton and have watched his career take off in so many directions since. Sometimes when you come into the game late, you don't have a full appreciation of a true innovator's contributions, because at a later stage, their innovations have become part of the vernacular. Listen to Berlioz and compare to any modern horror movie. Listen to any younger tenor player and wonder why Coltrane's lines sound familiar. Listen to Bonamassa and ask why Beck, Clapton, Johnson and Green then sound familiar.

    It's all a process of discovery. Honest inquiry may lead you to a greater appreciation of talents that might otherwise be taken for granted or devalued because of how deeply they have been absorbed by our culture. And, tastes grow with experience. Your ear will guide you, but you might question why someone is so deeply lauded for their expression and contribution before you stop listening. I recommend you keep exploring Pat's work, you will definitely find something useful for your own playing and writing.

  15. #89

    User Info Menu

    Pat keeps his private life private. Maybe the hair is a diversionary tactic?

  16. #90

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Maybe. But in the early 21st century jazz forum, where data shows many are born in the early 20th century, maybe they secretly would love to have that haircut... or any haircut at all, I suspect. So I dunno, good for PM's to have that 'problem' still for his age.
    I hope you don't mean it's a wig...

  17. #91

    User Info Menu

    Hey - a talented guy good Guitarist not a raw emotion Guitarist .... great Composer ...great Pop Guitarist..

    Not a heavyweight badass like Benson or etc...

    Like many Jazz Guitarists - he has a layer of hipness filter that dilutes raw emotion through his instrument TBH which although I appreciate Metheny's frankness about other Guitarists and Jazz Musicians but I wondered why he was so rough on Kenny G .

    I first heard both of them on the smooth jazz Radio stations - and some of Metheny's stuff is definitely in that category and Kenny G can Play and has circular breathing

    They both seem to be the same ilk or Genre ...I know Pat has embraced the Jazz Repertoire much more than Kenny G.

    And I doubt seriously that Pat could outplay Kenny G ...regardless of material.

    However - IF Pat is down on Kenny G because Kenny G could be a great Sax Player in addition to his Pop stuff - and the Jazzers just want to hear Kenny G challenge himself sometimes-

    That's different . I apologize - I get it .

    I am Pop / R&B but have benefited from being exposed to Jazz ( mostly here ) and tutored to an extent ( mostly here ) and Jazz does challenge IMO and is strong medicine lol.

    Do you Guys think Metheny could seriously challenge Kenny G on some Jazz Tunes ?





    I thought the above was really impressive because when Metheny first came out he sounded like he couldn't physically play that well ..but he got a lot better .

    Not I wish I had his chops or time better ...lol.


    I think he is a great Writer ( James ) haven't heard many of his CDs .

    And I love his playing on that ...

    I like his playing on his 'seminario' video ..

    but he doesn't seem to work that stuff into his Solos when I hear him...
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 09-18-2019 at 10:21 PM.

  18. #92

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa
    Do you Guys think Metheny could seriously challenge Kenny G on some Jazz Tunes ?
    I don't follow The G. Has he released any straight ahead jazz albums? If so, when? If he hasn't, I'd say it's a moot point.

  19. #93

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    I hope you don't mean it's a wig...
    PM? Nah of course not. I just think the guys here want to poke fun at his hair might not have any. Which is very entertaining thought.

  20. #94

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa
    Hey - a talented guy good Guitarist not a raw emotion Guitarist .... great Composer ...great Pop Guitarist..

    Not a heavyweight badass like Benson or etc...

    Like many Jazz Guitarists - he has a layer of hipness filter that dilutes raw emotion through his instrument TBH which although I appreciate Metheny's frankness about other Guitarists and Jazz Musicians but I wondered why he was so rough on Kenny G .

    I first heard both of them on the smooth jazz Radio stations - and some of Metheny's stuff is definitely in that category and Kenny G can Play and has circular breathing

    They both seem to be the same ilk or Genre ...I know Pat has embraced the Jazz Repertoire much more than Kenny G.

    And I doubt seriously that Pat could outplay Kenny G ...regardless of material.

    However - IF Pat is down on Kenny G because Kenny G could be a great Sax Player in addition to his Pop stuff - and the Jazzers just want to hear Kenny G challenge himself sometimes-

    That's different . I apologize - I get it .

    I am Pop / R&B but have benefited from being exposed to Jazz ( mostly here ) and tutored to an extent ( mostly here ) and Jazz does challenge IMO and is strong medicine lol.

    Do you Guys think Metheny could seriously challenge Kenny G on some Jazz Tunes ?
    He was rough on Kenny G because he made a record playing over Louis Armstrong or something. He had a point.

  21. #95

    User Info Menu

    Have never heard Kenny G play anything with other than a few funk changes, so that is an unanswered question. They chose different paths, Metheny has clearly shown extraordinary writing and playing skill across a broad set of genres, and is lauded by the best in jazz today - Herbie Hancock, Michael Brecker, Joshua Redman, Gary Burton, Chick Corea to name only a few. Maybe they hear something you have yet to discern.

    You are still free to not listen. But, if you study any of Metheny's interviews, compositions, solos, different band contexts, it would be hard to classify him as a smooth jazz player, or at least, that was never his intent, according to his interviews. But, he values pop, brazilian, world music and above all, great melody, so those influences are definitely present.

    Some of his writing may appeal to smooth jazz listeners, but there is a depth of knowledge and skill that belies the simple tunes put forth by Gorelick/Peter White and whoever else tops the charts these days. They aren't bad or wrong, but their music is pretty lightweight harmonically and much easier to play over than almost anything Metheny has written.

    And, simple can be great! I love Jeff Lorber, listen (STILL) to the Tijuana Brass, all the blues greats, the Carpenters, Tom Jones.... so much great music everywhere. The point isn't to argue who is best, but it is a smart thing to at least acknowledge when depth and skill are present, even if not to your taste.

    I would never tell you to not listen to Kenny G or to like Metheny. But I would advise anyone to listen more deeply and study Metheny's compositions and soloing to see if you hear what many others with acknowledged talent appreciate about listening to and playing with Metheny.

    Here's an example of a simple sounding tune from Watercolors with fast moving changes that are really hard to stay on top of, but Metheny floats around, implying the harmony in a beautifully melodic and always accurate way, and it was recorded 42 years ago!

    Lakes.pdf

    Can't find it on Youtube, but I think you can listen here on spotify:

    Lakes, a song by Pat Metheny on Spotify

    Have fun exploring, nothing really wrong here. Some of us are serious Metheny fans and don't want you to miss an opportunity to become one, as well

  22. #96

    User Info Menu

    It's not as if PM reads this forum or needs his playing, composition, or opinions to be defended, so I won't bother with that. But this business of "I don't really get [player x]" justified by inarguably ignorant and dismissive commentary ... I mean when people do this (as the OP did, and some follow-on commenters have done) they just look stupid. No one is obliged to like something, or even to try to like something. Not liking something that others whose opinions you respect is a normal part of the vagaries of taste. But if the premise of your utterance is "I don't really get [X]", then you should stop there, because you don't get [X], and you're unlikely to by trolling people who do. If what you really want to do is ask people to explain why they like an artist, or give examples of the artist's work that would help you understand the artist better, then just ask that directly.

    John

  23. #97

    User Info Menu

    It's not the total story, but I find it impressive that Metheny has won 20 Grammy awards across several categories and has distinguished himself in numerous, diverse contexts ranging from solo, duo, trio, ensemble, as well as doing some highly experimental and let's face it, commercially risky projects. At the same time, I find his album We Live Here is one I can give to almost any of my friends and they will love it. They love not because it's exactly like everything else they enjoy, but because it builds on what they can enjoy and takes them other places. "We Live Here," "To the End of the World," "Girls Next Door" are just really engaging, listenable tunes that also mess with your head and build into your sensibility an enjoyment of new sounds and ideas.

    So while actually I don't mind Kenny G's playing at all, I do think he and Pat Metheny are in utterly different leagues. Metheny occupies a different universe of talent, vision, technical ability, compositional prowess, and versatility that I simply can't see in Kenny G, nor can I see that it might even be beneath the surface.

    I was slow getting "on board" with Pat Metheny. But I find every year something else he's done that I didn't "get" before suddenly becomes compelling for me. He makes me grow, and I like that.

  24. #98

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    You totally miss the point of why you make such a post. Despite the slightly backwards approach the reason is this:

    It is to get inspired. It is to let others point out stuff you've might have missed. It is basically a hail mary attempt to actually getting your eyes and ears opened and discover something new.

    It is curiosity .. What am I missing that so many others cherish??


    And why the backward approach of stating that you don't like him .. Well you give context and also open the door for other that at first also didn't like him to be specific about why they changed their minds. But mostly it is context.

    All his other stuff feels so corny to me. Like the smooth jazz you hear in the mall/the weather channel or that new agey stuff. Especially his synth guitar.

    Also, as a person Pat Metheny seems quite pretentious. Of course what Kenny G did is not cool. But as I said, I think his music sounds almost as corny as Kenny G's stuff.

    Will the jazz police arrest me? Am I tone deaf? Am I not smart/deep enough? Will I get the banhammer?

    I think the OP misses your point, as well

  25. #99

    User Info Menu

    I'm confused...is this satire?

    Like Metheny or not, that's fine. Arguing that he's not a genius level musician just makes you look like you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

    I think it's 100% fine for anyone who wants to understand music to dislike the music of anyone they like. Large parts of classical music I don't really like much at all. But arguing that an accomplished, trendsetting musician who works with all the best players is lacking in skills is pretty stupid.

    Kenny G is generally distasteful and did a distasteful thing that was pretty obvious. Getting called out on it seems pretty appropriate.

    Not all of Pat Metheny's music is my taste all the time but there's zero point in arguing that he's not a fantastically skilled musician. +bright sized life on its own is a superlative album with JACO.



    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa
    Hey - a talented guy good Guitarist not a raw emotion Guitarist .... great Composer ...great Pop Guitarist..

    Not a heavyweight badass like Benson or etc...

    Like many Jazz Guitarists - he has a layer of hipness filter that dilutes raw emotion through his instrument TBH which although I appreciate Metheny's frankness about other Guitarists and Jazz Musicians but I wondered why he was so rough on Kenny G .

    I first heard both of them on the smooth jazz Radio stations - and some of Metheny's stuff is definitely in that category and Kenny G can Play and has circular breathing

    They both seem to be the same ilk or Genre ...I know Pat has embraced the Jazz Repertoire much more than Kenny G.

    And I doubt seriously that Pat could outplay Kenny G ...regardless of material.

    However - IF Pat is down on Kenny G because Kenny G could be a great Sax Player in addition to his Pop stuff - and the Jazzers just want to hear Kenny G challenge himself sometimes-

    That's different . I apologize - I get it .

    I am Pop / R&B but have benefited from being exposed to Jazz ( mostly here ) and tutored to an extent ( mostly here ) and Jazz does challenge IMO and is strong medicine lol.

    Do you Guys think Metheny could seriously challenge Kenny G on some Jazz Tunes ?

  26. #100

    User Info Menu

    Smooth jazz this ain't: