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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Average Joe View Post
    there is a feeling that when you're talking about the most successful and influencial player of the past 40 years, the onus is on you if you can't get into it.
    I think the sentence 'x musician is clearly amazing, but doesn't quite get me going' goes a long way. Then gives me time to listen to music I actually enjoy.

    Focus on what you love and dive deep. Ignore the rest.

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg View Post
    I love Pat Metheny but... yikes... that's hard to un-see.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  4. #53

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    Must have been hot that night, lol.

  5. #54

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    Who among us, who's old enough, didn't do things in the '80s they are not proud of today?
    Build bridges, not walls.

  6. #55

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    I know. Let's start a thread on every player that we "can't get into". (kidding of course)

    Seems kind of counter productive, but in this case actually garnered more praise than the opposite...

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    I worry about attributing musical features directly to race. Hard to walk the line between historical sensitivity and ethnic stereotyping.

    As to the final question, it's easy to answer, hard to do: Play what you love. Play what you'll never by happy if you don't. Let the name callers and haters do whatever they do. Just play the music your heart needs to play.

    Uh yeah. I should have said African American.

    In other words, it's really culture. OTOH - if we're honest we recognize that race is a big part of it. The whole world likes African American music, it's unique. It's not just African, and it's not just American. An analogy would be the uniqueness of different Latin styles (Brazilian, Afro-Cuban, Mexican, Argentinian), and for that matter, Euro styles. Culture, race, geography, heritage, all play an important part of the art.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Uh yeah. I should have said African American.

    In other words, it's really culture. OTOH - if we're honest we recognize that race is a big part of it. The whole world likes African American music, it's unique. It's not just African, and it's not just American. An analogy would be the uniqueness of different Latin styles (Brazilian, Afro-Cuban, Mexican, Argentinian), and for that matter, Euro styles. Culture, race, geography, heritage, all play an important part of the art.
    Race is a social construct and one I don't recognize. I.e. it's really culture. Period.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    I love Pat Metheny but... yikes... that's hard to un-see.
    I think he is trying to get people to close their eyes and just listen.

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz View Post
    Metheny as a guitarist is such a small part of the picture, even though he has constantly worked on his sound and concept as a player. He is a master of the studio, a great "live" producer, and a composer/arranger at the top of the heap. Not everyone should like everything, of course, and not liking Pat's work is perfectly fine, after all, we have many choices, but my collection that started so many years ago with Jim Hall's sideman (partner, actually) work with Chico, Rollins, Giuffre and Farmer and grew to include much Wes, Barney, Django, HR, Burrell, McLaughlin, Abercrombie, Stern, etc. also includes 2 dozen recordings with Metheny as leader or collaborator, and I must say his influence on my production, both live and recorded, has been very valuable. He has full control of his professional life, that's quite the rarity in our business.
    That's well said. Metheny is not one of the guitarists that, when I hear him, I think "how can I play like that?" Instead, when I hear him, I don't think about my own playing at all. I just listen and absorb an approach to the instrument that is so different from anything I can even conceive.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat View Post
    I think he is trying to get people to close their eyes and just listen.

    Either that, or he was trying to pull a few groupies and Lyle's hair wasn't helping their cause.

  12. #61

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    Call me shallow, and I'm ok with that, but he should've cut that hair and ditched the Charlie Brown shirts 30-35 years ago.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Also, as a person Pat Metheny seems quite pretentious. Of course what Kenny G did is not cool. But as I said, I think his music sounds almost as corny as Kenny G's stuff.
    maybe his music sounds corny to you but at least he’s not a practitioner of musical necrophilia unlike Gorelick!

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Even though I'm not a Kenny G fan, I found Metheny's bullying of him disgusting.
    funny, but I found Gorelicks desecration of a jazz legend disgusting. Go figure!

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Well he is great, and always was. And the players that you listed are the classics of jazz guitar, no doubt.


    My final, and politically incorrect, point/observation on this topic. Can white players ever really sound like black players? The closer they get, the more forced and disingenuous they sound, or so it seems to me.
    Two of my biggest influences are Jim Hall, and Nelson Riddle. I seem to always hearken to the conundrums of Jim Hall and the musicality of Nelson Riddle. Heck, I'm even a big fan of Mantovani and Morricone... but that is simply, what does it for me, I don't know why...

  16. #65

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    The first time I saw Pat was in Boston 1973, I think he was about 19 years old at the time. Gig was in a church cellar somewhere in Allston. He was in a trio with Bob Moses and a vibes player (not Gary Burton). I was totally blown away. I saw him several times in Boston (sometimes on the elevator at Berklee) in different configurations. Duet with Mick Goodrich, Ralph Towner, trio with Jaco, quartet with Gary Burton, then over the years with the PMG and on and on. His evolution over the years has been incredible. But I think my favorite is just Pat and an acoustic guitar. His sense of harmony and moving lines between chords is amazing. I've met him several times. Memorable one was at the airport in Rome. He's not always a personable guy and like all of us probably has good days and bad days. He is an incredible musician.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    All his other stuff feels so corny to me. Like the smooth jazz you hear in the mall/the weather channel or that new agey stuff. Especially his synth guitar.

    Also, as a person Pat Metheny seems quite pretentious. Of course what Kenny G did is not cool. But as I said, I think his music sounds almost as corny as Kenny G's stuff.
    Perhaps, un-ironically, his music DOES get a bunch of air time on The Weather Channel ("Spring Ain't Here" plays a lot during the "your local forecast" segments).

    I've seen PMG several times in concert. Most recently, I saw Pat on the opening night of his latest tour. He was playing in a trio, in a small converted church in upstate NY. If it tells you anything about how approachable his music is, my sister (who is not a jazz fan) mentioned that she recognized several of his original tunes that they played.

    At times, I think most musicians (myself included) come across as being pretentious - (although music is my life's passion, I don't take myself seriously at all as a musician). I've come to accept that as part of the "shtick," or routine. Given his history as an educator, and as a performer (and including all of the notable musicians he has performed/composed/recorded with), his demeanor may be an acquired air.

    Regardless, he has left his mark on millions of people over the years (as has Kenny Gorelick).

  18. #67

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    Yeah, the notorious lesson tape- check it out:



    The soloing from around 1 minute in through to about 5.30 shows a side to Pat I've not yet heard on any of his recordings (feel free to point me in the right direction). Infact it seems so different than what I expect from PM that I was originally confused and thought that the student was the one soloing!

    Of course it's the student that is comping rather poorly for poor Mr PM, who still manages to come up with all these beautiful minor blues lines that I must get around to transcribing one day. Oh, and despite the appalling cassette recording quality, it's still the best tone I'e heard heard from Pat as well!

  19. #68

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    In the Jaco biography I read, they said that when they recorded Bright Size Life, Metheny wanted Charlie Haden (IIRC) on double bass and was talked into using Jaco instead at the last minute. Wow. Pays to be lucky.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    ...The soloing from around 1 minute in through to about 5.30 shows a side to Pat I've not yet heard on any of his recordings (feel free to point me in the right direction)...
    Best playing I've heard from him. Thanks for posting. I also really enjoyed his talk.

    I've heard him for decades. Never dug his gig that much. For one thing, he seems to be having entirely too much fun for my liking :-)

    I mean... clearly he's a great musician and a wonderful guitarist. To me he seems like a really good player. Can't fault him for his success though. He wouldn't be where he is if he only played what I like to listen to.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    Yeah, the notorious lesson tape- check it out:



    The soloing from around 1 minute in through to about 5.30 shows a side to Pat I've not yet heard on any of his recordings (feel free to point me in the right direction). Infact it seems so different than what I expect from PM that I was originally confused and thought that the student was the one soloing!

    Of course it's the student that is comping rather poorly for poor Mr PM, who still manages to come up with all these beautiful minor blues lines that I must get around to transcribing one day. Oh, and despite the appalling cassette recording quality, it's still the best tone I'e heard heard from Pat as well!
    Yeah, I understand this is Pats original style - his bebop influenced playing, which is more similar to his playing as a sideman in a straightahead context.

    I can’t remember where I read this, but I understand he deliberately changed his style to be less chromatic and boppy for his own compositions.

  22. #71

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    Also note how rock-solid his time is. Not affected in the slightest by the awkward comping of the other guy.

    Whether or not you like PM, I would love to have time as good as that.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatPick View Post
    In the Jaco biography I read, they said that when they recorded Bright Size Life, Metheny wanted Charlie Haden (IIRC) on double bass and was talked into using Jaco instead at the last minute. Wow. Pays to be lucky.
    is that the one by bill milkowski? been a while since i read it, but I seem to recall that he originally wanted Dave holland, even had rehearsals with him, because Dave holland had a lot of pedigree. But bob moses talked him out of it saying more or less, ‘your music sounds so much more alive with Jaco’
    cheers!

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatPick View Post
    In the Jaco biography I read, they said that when they recorded Bright Size Life, Metheny wanted Charlie Haden (IIRC) on double bass and was talked into using Jaco instead at the last minute. Wow. Pays to be lucky.
    I really love Charlie Haden, on 80/81, or with Keith Jarrett, I listened pretty much all his recording under his name too.
    ...
    But I have to say: I am really happy for Jaco he is on Bright Size Life. What those three did there is part of the jazz history now. I am not sure with double bass and Haden would be such a unique milestone.

  25. #74

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    PM is almost always accessible, I've enjoyed his work, i especially was impressed with his X release with Ornette and Haynes... knocked my left sock off. Previous to that, Anthony Braxton's Orchestra of Birds knocked my right sock off.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by geogio View Post
    .Previous to that, Anthony Braxton's Orchestra of Birds knocked my right sock off.
    Dave Holland's Conference of the Birds, maybe?

  27. #76

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    Everyone hears his own music and each musician has his own level, regardless of how much he plays. It is important how much practice he does behind the scenes.

    Especially if it seems to you that it sounds corny, it's good, it means that you can do better! Take his work and modify it so that it is amazing. It will be great!

  28. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatPick View Post
    In the Jaco biography I read, they said ...
    Although the Pistorius biography that I read was discredited by the Pastorius family, there was a statement that after the graveside ceremony dispersed Pat Metheny remained alone and quietly by graveside in deep thought. That struck me as very respectful and that PM was saddened about the untimely passing of Jaco Pastorius and the terrible circumstances surrounding his passing. Perhaps Metheny recognized that without Jaco Pastorius on BSL Metheny might have faded into relative obscurity.

    I found the vignette caused me to reflect that Metheny held Jaco Pastorius in high regard and was deeply moved at the passing of Jaco.

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    Dave Holland's Conference of the Birds, maybe?
    Thanks for refreshing my somewhat aged memory.

  30. #79

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    There are original compositions by PMG - the specific language and style of arrangement they (he) developed and there is soloing of Pat Metheny... those are are different things for me.

    I enjoy first sometimes though sometimes it gets too corny to me (but on the other hand it clearly reflects a specific part of American musical landscape - coming from Copeland through Glass and that merged into soundtrack music - in geeneral I feel it often like 'pop-music tryng to look serious' some of Bill Frisell's music feels the same way for me but Bill is not that pretencious as Pat and that covers it - you can clearly feel that he does just what he loves whatever it is, with Pat it is like he wants to bring message, to be represantative of something etc.)

    But there is also PM as improvizor - I can't say I always deeply like his style but I definitely appreciate it and I can really dig it... but he is prolific inventive genuine and JAZZ improvizor which is often overshadowed by the overall soundscape of PMG music.

  31. #80

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    Has anyone met the hair? Is it pretentious or just bad taste?

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMgolf66 View Post
    Has anyone met the hair? Is it pretentious or just bad taste?
    Ha, I dunno what's more pretentious, PM's hair or discussing PM's hair.

    One thing, he doesn't look like a nerd, and doesn't sound like a nerd, unlike millennials jazz guitarists.

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    ...One thing, he doesn't look like a nerd, and doesn't sound like a nerd, unlike millennials jazz guitarists.
    Dunno, compared with cool players from the past, he kinda does sound like a nerd, and kinda looks like one too... well, to me at least, but then, I'm pretty cool !

  34. #83

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    PMs is clearly a massive dweeb and I mean that with love.

    (To be fair he does the thing of not giving a stuff what anyone thinks of him or his occasionally batshit projects which is sort of the dweeby way of actually being cool)

  35. #84

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    Ha, I dunno what's more pretentious, PM's hair or discussing PM's hair.
    I think discussing PM's hair could be quite sophisticated salon topic in the early 20th century London...
    for Paris though it could seem too blatant perhaps which in turn makes it even more sophisticated for Londoners.

  36. #85

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    I'm still recovering from the sight of those hot-pants...
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  37. #86

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    if only Pat had intoduced Kenny on stage as special guest id forgive the hair and hot pants..but Kenny has to get on his knees and kiss his A..

  38. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    I think discussing PM's hair could be quite sophisticated salon topic in the early 20th century London...
    for Paris though it could seem too blatant perhaps which in turn makes it even more sophisticated for Londoners.
    Maybe. But in the early 21st century jazz forum, where data shows many are born in the early 20th century, maybe they secretly would love to have that haircut... or any haircut at all, I suspect. So I dunno, good for PM's to have that 'problem' still for his age.

  39. #88

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    The man is a true original, amazing writer, unique voice and definitely NOT to be placed in the "smooth jazz" category. Try playing his tunes, including the odd time signatures, melodies, slash chords, make it sound good, craft a melodic solo that ties those changes together and then compare that to a Kenny G or Peter White tune. No comparison.

    I seriously doubt that he tried to dampen his own talent to appeal to a wider audience; it's simply what he heard in his head at the time. You can look at his movie soundtrack output, try playing his solo acoustic tunes, marvel at his simple but complex voicings and just generally look at how many firsts he accomplished as a guitarist to realize, that, like him or not, he is a musical giant.

    I'm not sure of the point of these posts, either. Certainly fine to not like him, but why is that even worth beginning a post? I don't like canned asparagus, is anybody with me? Is that even worth the energy to type? Is it not more productive to examine someone's talents and contributions and why they work, than to state your distaste publicly? Has the OP appreciated anything different from these responses, or chosen to investigate Metheny's work in a different way, to see why he is admired by so many?

    I met Pat in '74 when he was on tour with Burton and have watched his career take off in so many directions since. Sometimes when you come into the game late, you don't have a full appreciation of a true innovator's contributions, because at a later stage, their innovations have become part of the vernacular. Listen to Berlioz and compare to any modern horror movie. Listen to any younger tenor player and wonder why Coltrane's lines sound familiar. Listen to Bonamassa and ask why Beck, Clapton, Johnson and Green then sound familiar.

    It's all a process of discovery. Honest inquiry may lead you to a greater appreciation of talents that might otherwise be taken for granted or devalued because of how deeply they have been absorbed by our culture. And, tastes grow with experience. Your ear will guide you, but you might question why someone is so deeply lauded for their expression and contribution before you stop listening. I recommend you keep exploring Pat's work, you will definitely find something useful for your own playing and writing.
    It all works out in the end; if it's not working out, it's not the end.

  40. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by yebdox View Post
    I'm not sure of the point of these posts, either. Certainly fine to not like him, but why is that even worth beginning a post? I don't like canned asparagus, is anybody with me? Is that even worth the energy to type? Is it not more productive to examine someone's talents and contributions and why they work, than to state your distaste publicly? Has the OP appreciated anything different from these responses, or chosen to investigate Metheny's work in a different way, to see why he is admired by so many?

    You totally miss the point of why you make such a post. Despite the slightly backwards approach the reason is this:

    It is to get inspired. It is to let others point out stuff you've might have missed. It is basically a hail mary attempt to actually getting your eyes and ears opened and discover something new.

    It is curiosity .. What am I missing that so many others cherish??


    And why the backward approach of stating that you don't like him .. Well you give context and also open the door for other that at first also didn't like him to be specific about why they changed their minds. But mostly it is context.

  41. #90

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    Pat keeps his private life private. Maybe the hair is a diversionary tactic?
    Build bridges, not walls.

  42. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    Maybe. But in the early 21st century jazz forum, where data shows many are born in the early 20th century, maybe they secretly would love to have that haircut... or any haircut at all, I suspect. So I dunno, good for PM's to have that 'problem' still for his age.
    I hope you don't mean it's a wig...

  43. #92

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    Hey - a talented guy good Guitarist not a raw emotion Guitarist .... great Composer ...great Pop Guitarist..

    Not a heavyweight badass like Benson or etc...

    Like many Jazz Guitarists - he has a layer of hipness filter that dilutes raw emotion through his instrument TBH which although I appreciate Metheny's frankness about other Guitarists and Jazz Musicians but I wondered why he was so rough on Kenny G .

    I first heard both of them on the smooth jazz Radio stations - and some of Metheny's stuff is definitely in that category and Kenny G can Play and has circular breathing

    They both seem to be the same ilk or Genre ...I know Pat has embraced the Jazz Repertoire much more than Kenny G.

    And I doubt seriously that Pat could outplay Kenny G ...regardless of material.

    However - IF Pat is down on Kenny G because Kenny G could be a great Sax Player in addition to his Pop stuff - and the Jazzers just want to hear Kenny G challenge himself sometimes-

    That's different . I apologize - I get it .

    I am Pop / R&B but have benefited from being exposed to Jazz ( mostly here ) and tutored to an extent ( mostly here ) and Jazz does challenge IMO and is strong medicine lol.

    Do you Guys think Metheny could seriously challenge Kenny G on some Jazz Tunes ?





    I thought the above was really impressive because when Metheny first came out he sounded like he couldn't physically play that well ..but he got a lot better .

    Not I wish I had his chops or time better ...lol.


    I think he is a great Writer ( James ) haven't heard many of his CDs .

    And I love his playing on that ...

    I like his playing on his 'seminario' video ..

    but he doesn't seem to work that stuff into his Solos when I hear him...
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 09-18-2019 at 10:21 PM.

  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa View Post
    Do you Guys think Metheny could seriously challenge Kenny G on some Jazz Tunes ?
    I don't follow The G. Has he released any straight ahead jazz albums? If so, when? If he hasn't, I'd say it's a moot point.
    Build bridges, not walls.

  45. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    I hope you don't mean it's a wig...
    PM? Nah of course not. I just think the guys here want to poke fun at his hair might not have any. Which is very entertaining thought.

  46. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa View Post
    Hey - a talented guy good Guitarist not a raw emotion Guitarist .... great Composer ...great Pop Guitarist..

    Not a heavyweight badass like Benson or etc...

    Like many Jazz Guitarists - he has a layer of hipness filter that dilutes raw emotion through his instrument TBH which although I appreciate Metheny's frankness about other Guitarists and Jazz Musicians but I wondered why he was so rough on Kenny G .

    I first heard both of them on the smooth jazz Radio stations - and some of Metheny's stuff is definitely in that category and Kenny G can Play and has circular breathing

    They both seem to be the same ilk or Genre ...I know Pat has embraced the Jazz Repertoire much more than Kenny G.

    And I doubt seriously that Pat could outplay Kenny G ...regardless of material.

    However - IF Pat is down on Kenny G because Kenny G could be a great Sax Player in addition to his Pop stuff - and the Jazzers just want to hear Kenny G challenge himself sometimes-

    That's different . I apologize - I get it .

    I am Pop / R&B but have benefited from being exposed to Jazz ( mostly here ) and tutored to an extent ( mostly here ) and Jazz does challenge IMO and is strong medicine lol.

    Do you Guys think Metheny could seriously challenge Kenny G on some Jazz Tunes ?
    He was rough on Kenny G because he made a record playing over Louis Armstrong or something. He had a point.

  47. #96

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    Have never heard Kenny G play anything with other than a few funk changes, so that is an unanswered question. They chose different paths, Metheny has clearly shown extraordinary writing and playing skill across a broad set of genres, and is lauded by the best in jazz today - Herbie Hancock, Michael Brecker, Joshua Redman, Gary Burton, Chick Corea to name only a few. Maybe they hear something you have yet to discern.

    You are still free to not listen. But, if you study any of Metheny's interviews, compositions, solos, different band contexts, it would be hard to classify him as a smooth jazz player, or at least, that was never his intent, according to his interviews. But, he values pop, brazilian, world music and above all, great melody, so those influences are definitely present.

    Some of his writing may appeal to smooth jazz listeners, but there is a depth of knowledge and skill that belies the simple tunes put forth by Gorelick/Peter White and whoever else tops the charts these days. They aren't bad or wrong, but their music is pretty lightweight harmonically and much easier to play over than almost anything Metheny has written.

    And, simple can be great! I love Jeff Lorber, listen (STILL) to the Tijuana Brass, all the blues greats, the Carpenters, Tom Jones.... so much great music everywhere. The point isn't to argue who is best, but it is a smart thing to at least acknowledge when depth and skill are present, even if not to your taste.

    I would never tell you to not listen to Kenny G or to like Metheny. But I would advise anyone to listen more deeply and study Metheny's compositions and soloing to see if you hear what many others with acknowledged talent appreciate about listening to and playing with Metheny.

    Here's an example of a simple sounding tune from Watercolors with fast moving changes that are really hard to stay on top of, but Metheny floats around, implying the harmony in a beautifully melodic and always accurate way, and it was recorded 42 years ago!

    Lakes.pdf

    Can't find it on Youtube, but I think you can listen here on spotify:

    Lakes, a song by Pat Metheny on Spotify

    Have fun exploring, nothing really wrong here. Some of us are serious Metheny fans and don't want you to miss an opportunity to become one, as well
    It all works out in the end; if it's not working out, it's not the end.

  48. #97

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    It's not as if PM reads this forum or needs his playing, composition, or opinions to be defended, so I won't bother with that. But this business of "I don't really get [player x]" justified by inarguably ignorant and dismissive commentary ... I mean when people do this (as the OP did, and some follow-on commenters have done) they just look stupid. No one is obliged to like something, or even to try to like something. Not liking something that others whose opinions you respect is a normal part of the vagaries of taste. But if the premise of your utterance is "I don't really get [X]", then you should stop there, because you don't get [X], and you're unlikely to by trolling people who do. If what you really want to do is ask people to explain why they like an artist, or give examples of the artist's work that would help you understand the artist better, then just ask that directly.

    John

  49. #98

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    It's not the total story, but I find it impressive that Metheny has won 20 Grammy awards across several categories and has distinguished himself in numerous, diverse contexts ranging from solo, duo, trio, ensemble, as well as doing some highly experimental and let's face it, commercially risky projects. At the same time, I find his album We Live Here is one I can give to almost any of my friends and they will love it. They love not because it's exactly like everything else they enjoy, but because it builds on what they can enjoy and takes them other places. "We Live Here," "To the End of the World," "Girls Next Door" are just really engaging, listenable tunes that also mess with your head and build into your sensibility an enjoyment of new sounds and ideas.

    So while actually I don't mind Kenny G's playing at all, I do think he and Pat Metheny are in utterly different leagues. Metheny occupies a different universe of talent, vision, technical ability, compositional prowess, and versatility that I simply can't see in Kenny G, nor can I see that it might even be beneath the surface.

    I was slow getting "on board" with Pat Metheny. But I find every year something else he's done that I didn't "get" before suddenly becomes compelling for me. He makes me grow, and I like that.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov View Post
    You totally miss the point of why you make such a post. Despite the slightly backwards approach the reason is this:

    It is to get inspired. It is to let others point out stuff you've might have missed. It is basically a hail mary attempt to actually getting your eyes and ears opened and discover something new.

    It is curiosity .. What am I missing that so many others cherish??


    And why the backward approach of stating that you don't like him .. Well you give context and also open the door for other that at first also didn't like him to be specific about why they changed their minds. But mostly it is context.

    All his other stuff feels so corny to me. Like the smooth jazz you hear in the mall/the weather channel or that new agey stuff. Especially his synth guitar.

    Also, as a person Pat Metheny seems quite pretentious. Of course what Kenny G did is not cool. But as I said, I think his music sounds almost as corny as Kenny G's stuff.

    Will the jazz police arrest me? Am I tone deaf? Am I not smart/deep enough? Will I get the banhammer?

    I think the OP misses your point, as well
    It all works out in the end; if it's not working out, it's not the end.

  51. #100

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    I'm confused...is this satire?

    Like Metheny or not, that's fine. Arguing that he's not a genius level musician just makes you look like you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

    I think it's 100% fine for anyone who wants to understand music to dislike the music of anyone they like. Large parts of classical music I don't really like much at all. But arguing that an accomplished, trendsetting musician who works with all the best players is lacking in skills is pretty stupid.

    Kenny G is generally distasteful and did a distasteful thing that was pretty obvious. Getting called out on it seems pretty appropriate.

    Not all of Pat Metheny's music is my taste all the time but there's zero point in arguing that he's not a fantastically skilled musician. +bright sized life on its own is a superlative album with JACO.



    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa View Post
    Hey - a talented guy good Guitarist not a raw emotion Guitarist .... great Composer ...great Pop Guitarist..

    Not a heavyweight badass like Benson or etc...

    Like many Jazz Guitarists - he has a layer of hipness filter that dilutes raw emotion through his instrument TBH which although I appreciate Metheny's frankness about other Guitarists and Jazz Musicians but I wondered why he was so rough on Kenny G .

    I first heard both of them on the smooth jazz Radio stations - and some of Metheny's stuff is definitely in that category and Kenny G can Play and has circular breathing

    They both seem to be the same ilk or Genre ...I know Pat has embraced the Jazz Repertoire much more than Kenny G.

    And I doubt seriously that Pat could outplay Kenny G ...regardless of material.

    However - IF Pat is down on Kenny G because Kenny G could be a great Sax Player in addition to his Pop stuff - and the Jazzers just want to hear Kenny G challenge himself sometimes-

    That's different . I apologize - I get it .

    I am Pop / R&B but have benefited from being exposed to Jazz ( mostly here ) and tutored to an extent ( mostly here ) and Jazz does challenge IMO and is strong medicine lol.

    Do you Guys think Metheny could seriously challenge Kenny G on some Jazz Tunes ?