An Evening With Joe Pass

**docbop** · 08-21-2014, 02:07 PM

Just came across this YT of Joe Pass doing seminar at GIT.

I love his use of DI instead of amp and use of half a pick.

I don't think I heard that before about breaking picks in half.

**SamBooka** · 08-21-2014, 02:35 PM

LOL.. Listening to the intro the but that tone... geeeez... what is he going direct???

Skip to 2:55 in the video.

EDIT: Just reread the good Doctors notes on this re: DI ... lets just agree to disagree... great post tho.
I have never seen this much info on his custom 175.

**pubylakeg** · 08-21-2014, 07:50 PM

Thanks for posting Doc, I really enjoyed watching this. It is a little bit sad to watch, as it seems it was filmed quite close to his death, but his mischievous sense of humour is still very much in evidence. He's not the only Jazz guitarist I've seen who's aware that rock'n'roll guitarists aren't generally too clued up on the history of Jazz. He also doesn't seem to be taking himself too seriously, despite the fact that he's surrounded by an audience of guitar students. It's a great example of how humour can diffuse a stiff room.

Some surprises here, not least that C. Christian and Django weren't influences at all. His tone, well.. I thought was much nicer when he played fingerstyle. I've just realised that "fret slap" was a pretty prominent component of his sound.

By coincidence, a couple of nights ago I ordered a couple of Joe's sideman dates on Pablo from the 70's. They were "Memories Of Duke" by Clark Terry & "Duke's Big 4" with Ellington. I'll look forward to them arriving even more after watching this.

Best Wishes and Thanks Again.
Puby.

**SamBooka** · 08-22-2014, 12:12 AM

Puby, he seems to be in good shape there. I read the vid is from around 88 or 89 When I see the vids he did with Roy Clark my heart sinks a little as that was the year he died. There are a couple of youtube vids of him live and you get the impression he is struggling as well.
I cant believe I had never seen this vid before.. by far the best I have found yet. Tip of the hat to Docbop!!

**Melodic Dreamer** · 08-22-2014, 02:21 AM

Wow, I loved this. Thank you so much for posting it. Joe has always been one of those guys that I love to watch, but rarely listen too. This has created a spark of curiosity in me to start listening to him again

**rpguitar** · 08-22-2014, 06:54 AM

I will admit that I never dug Joe Pass, and I only own one album. This video will change all of that. I found it extremely inspiring to both watch and listen to him speak about playing. He takes a total no-B.S. approach with the students when he is asked questions - tells them to play what they hear, not scales and runs and licks... "What's a ii-V? Just play this..." He basically deconstructs the whole academic jazz thing in a humble way that you'd have a hard time contradicting.

And the fingerstyle playing on his 175 is totally inspired. I am a decent F.S. player but have mostly been playing with a pick because of speed reasons. This video tells me that I might be misguided. I think I'm going back to the shed for a bit.

THANK YOU for posting it.

**wintermoon** · 08-22-2014, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by pubylakeg

Thanks for posting Doc, I really enjoyed watching this. It is a little bit sad to watch, as it seems it was filmed quite close to his death, but his mischievous sense of humour is still very much in evidence. He's not the only Jazz guitarist I've seen who's aware that rock'n'roll guitarists aren't generally too clued up on the history of Jazz. He also doesn't seem to be taking himself too seriously, despite the fact that he's surrounded by an audience of guitar students. It's a great example of how humour can diffuse a stiff room.

Some surprises here, not least that C. Christian and Django weren't influences at all. His tone, well.. I thought was much nicer when he played fingerstyle. I've just realised that "fret slap" was a pretty prominent component of his sound.

By coincidence, a couple of nights ago I ordered a couple of Joe's sideman dates on Pablo from the 70's. They were "Memories Of Duke" by Clark Terry & "Duke's Big 4" with Ellington. I'll look forward to them arriving even more after watching this.

Best Wishes and Thanks Again.
Puby.

he made a ton of records for Pablo, aside from the Virtuoso series check out the Quadrant series [Milt Jackson, Joe, Ray Brown, Mickey Roker]

there's also the Pablo recordings w/Oscar Peterson, and even one called the Trumpet Summit [Dizzy, Freddie, Clark Terry] that lp was my introduction to Joe back in the 70s

I was fortunate to see him 1/2 dozen or so times, he always played solo.
once he was on a double bill w/Jim Halls' trio and after Joe played a solo set and Jim a trio set, Joe came out and made it a quartet and announced "Jim and I haven't played together in over 25 yrs" and it sounded like it, lol!

he also was always very funny in the stories he'd tell between tunes.

**pubylakeg** · 08-22-2014, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by SamBooka

I read the vid is from around 88 or 89

The vid is great, isn't it. It's not something I want to dwell on but I'm pretty sure this performance is from the 90's. I don't think Joe acquired that guitar before 92, and Don Mock's comments would indicate it's some years into the 90's as well.

**Tom Painter** · 08-22-2014, 06:06 PM

That's way cool!!

I don't think I've ever heard Joe play a fourths line like @ 1:07:50

**targuit** · 08-23-2014, 10:54 AM

What a great video! Nice link. I watched in bits and spurts earlier this week, but now I'm going to watch it again.

Joe seems to tell it like it is and was for him learning jazz. Play songs. Play what you hear. Modes? You won't get the girls playing scales. Love it.

Unless I'm wrong, I think Joe's daughter is present at the end.

I always say it - I miss Joe Pass. "I used to like playing fast when I was young. Now I don't anymore...."

Jay

**wintermoon** · 08-23-2014, 01:32 PM

"I mean, how do I do this?
I didn't go to GIT."

lol!

**NSJ** · 08-25-2014, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

I will admit that I never dug Joe Pass, and I only own one album. This video will change all of that. I found it extremely inspiring to both watch and listen to him speak about playing. He takes a total no-B.S. approach with the students when he is asked questions - tells them to play what they hear, not scales and runs and licks... "What's a ii-V? Just play this..." He basically deconstructs the whole academic jazz thing in a humble way that you'd have a hard time contradicting.

And the fingerstyle playing on his 175 is totally inspired. I am a decent F.S. player but have mostly been playing with a pick because of speed reasons. This video tells me that I might be misguided. I think I'm going back to the shed for a bit.

THANK YOU for posting it.

I got to know quite a bit about Joe when I was taking lessons. My teacher was a very close friend of his (two of Joe's first cousins lived in Chicago and the four of em would all get together and get real festive when he came through town).

What I learned fundamentally was that Joe was a real humble guy. He would also use a pick (which he split in half) only for single note lines (i.e.,speed). But he was mainly a finger style player. So much so, that my teacher tried to get him to play 7 string, even lending him one of his for a bit to try to get Joe interested. It was a no go. He had a very developed way of playing that took years to come to fruition. Adding a 7th string in the bass would have forced him to rethink all that, which he didn't want to.

BTW, the Solomon is making me think about playing with a pick again.

That guitar sounds SO GOOD with a pick, which I haven't used for a couple of years now.

**docbop** · 08-25-2014, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

"I mean, how do I do this?
I didn't go to GIT."

lol!

That is so important todayOn. music and I still help on computer sites and see it there. Today everyone wants to know what to buy, or download, or which video has all the secrets. But guys like Joe and other legends learned this stuff by doing, and analyzing what they did, and playing some more. They'd buy some, but put it to use playing more, this is also how they developed great ears. IMO today people looks to acquire answers quickly, trouble is what they get I'll call shallow answers, they don't get the depth and fringe benefits from having to work something out yourself. Like in that other thread about stupidity it's the looking for easy answers is the problem. You learn so much more than the basic answer when you have to struggle and figure it out. Books and stuff are good, but your have take each nugget of info presented and try to see how much more can be done with it, not just understand it and move to next page.

**Melodic Dreamer** · 08-27-2014, 09:23 PM

Got a question.
I recently purchased my first archtop style guitar this year (Eastman ar403ce). Before this I always played Strats and Teles and the occasional 335 style guitar. From my experience when one changes the height of their strings at the bridge, the guitar needs its intonation slightly adjusted.

In this video Joe talks about liking his action a little higher and adjusts it on the spot, but he doesn't adjust the intonation at all, at least from the video. Do archtop bridges affect intonation differently? Can one raise or lower their action at the bridge without messing up their intonation?

**Cunamara** · 08-28-2014, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by Melodic Dreamer

Got a question.
I recently purchased my first archtop style guitar this year (Eastman ar403ce). Before this I always played Strats and Teles and the occasional 335 style guitar. From my experience when one changes the height of their strings at the bridge, the guitar needs its intonation slightly adjusted.

In this video Joe talks about liking his action a little higher and adjusts it on the spot, but he doesn't adjust the intonation at all, at least from the video. Do archtop bridges affect intonation differently? Can one raise or lower their action at the bridge without messing up their intonation?

No, the intonation changes and ideally should be adjusted when you change the bridge height... however, there are some caveats.

First, the heavier strings that most jazz players use (.011-.050 to .014-.056 and sometimes heavier) tend to stay in tune better than the skinny strings favored by other genres and you can get away with this a bit easier.

Second, jazz chords don't tend to repeat notes- the CAGED forms often have two or three octaves of the same notes and this will really show up intonation problems. Jazz chords tend to have 3 or 4 different notes in most voicings and that can disguise the difference in intonation.

Third, archtop guitars don't tend to be well intonated unless you're using a TOM style bridge. Most wooden bridges are an approximation of intonation to begin with. Changing the bridge height on the fly probably just shifts which strings are badly intonated!

The string attachment and break angle probably makes a difference. On most Teles and Strats, the break angle of the string over the bridge is about 90 degrees whereas on an archtop it's less than 45, usually around 30. The flatter break angle and 2-5" from the bridge to the ball end allows the length of string behind the bridge to absorb some of the difference. This probably makes the archtop more forgiving about changing string bridge height. My Tele is far and away my best intonated guitar and it's also the most sensitive to these things, my archtops much less so.

**rsclosson** · 08-28-2014, 08:39 AM

Fantastic video. When he describes what he is doing, he makes it sound like his thought process is so simple. Then he starts playing...

**vinnyv1k** · 08-30-2014, 10:14 PM

Joe found out he had liver cancer in Feb. of 92. He did heavy chemo for quite a while as his cancer was responding well to the chemo. Then in 93 the liver cancer began to grow with a vengeance. He then decided to stop all types of treatments and focus on his final days doing what he lived for. Playing guitar. That vid was made 6 months before his death.

**Ghostofachance** · 03-21-2016, 02:17 PM

When I was in high school jazz band (this was a long time ago), a guy in his 20's approached me, introduced himself as somebody who also played jazz guitar, and proceeded to chat me up. He told me that he had met Joe Pass after a concert, but that Joe didn't make any effort to be gracious, and acted as if he didn't want to be bothered. This person told me that he was offended.

I've never forgotten that conversation, and have often wondered about it. If that conversation really happened as it was reported to me, I'm not sure that I blame Joe Pass. I mean, if you're famous, how much contact with fans is expected?

Many of you have met Joe Pass. Does his reported behavior seem in or out or character?

**Hep To The Jive** · 03-21-2016, 03:00 PM

I remember in Guitar Player years ago somebody shared a memory of Joe Pass in the 70's, when a stoned hippy or something approached him and said ' yeah dude, you're great, do you wanna jam in E, lets just jam man!' Joe Pass coldly said ' I play tunes' and walked away.

If thats the case, who can blame him, really

**lammie200** · 03-21-2016, 03:06 PM

There are at least a couple of youtube videos of Joe Pass in casual public settings. He seemed OK to me. One is at a guitar shop in New York that was near the musical instrument district near Broadway and 47th. Another was in an apartment type setting where he is noodling on a Roland guitar synth. Both of these videos are indications that he was pleasant under such circumstances.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-21-2016, 03:15 PM

Depends on when it was too...Joe was pretty sick towards the end of his life...maybe he was feeling it.

At some point, you gotta remember...these "gods" are people. Maybe he had a shitty day. Maybe he wasn't happy with his playing. Maybe the trans dropped on his car and he just got a $1500 estimate.

Who cares? Maybe he didn't feel like talking to some random dude about work that day.

**Boston Joe** · 03-21-2016, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Depends on when it was too...Joe was pretty sick towards the end of his life...maybe he was feeling it.

At some point, you gotta remember...these "gods" are people. Maybe he had a shitty day. Maybe he wasn't happy with his playing. Maybe the trans dropped on his car and he just got a $1500 estimate.

Who cares? Maybe he didn't feel like talking to some random dude about work that day.

Gotta be tough for any public person to deal with that stuff.

**lawson-stone** · 03-21-2016, 03:49 PM

I would say Joe Pass seems to have been a genuinely generous and gracious guy, but that he could also be quirky and sort of enjoyed putting you off to see what you'd do. I wrote him a dippy fan letter, for example, and he replied to it and we corresponded for the last 12-18 months of his life. And who was I? A total nobody. Not even a very good player. He told me, "...learn to read music, or find another hobby, or just use diminished scales... can't go wrong!" And that was said in the midst of a steady correspondence. So he could be cranky, make you think he was irritated, but basically he was a splendid guy who was self-effacing and generous.

**Flat** · 03-21-2016, 04:23 PM

I got to see Joe around GIT from time to time in 1984. I never spoke to him. I peeked in on a couple of the small-group seminars he would give. Word was that he wanted to teach only the most advanced students, so "don't try to hang unless you've got the chops." (I didn't and knew it.)

Sometimes he did look like he had just bit into a lemon, but everyone knew that Joe had once quit heroin. That has got to be extremely difficult and probably leaves some scars on the soul. (Ever see a chipper, perky ex-junkie? Nah, me neither.)

The guy was human. I wouldn't say his personality was all sunlight and sparkle, but Joe was alright by me.