The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I know that Joni started off folky and got jazzy along the way. Was this because her songwriting went in that direction or because her session musicians had a lot of freedom within her songs? I grew up in the 80/90s and came across her music via the Jaco/Metheny when in my teens connection rather than through the radio-play of the time.

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  3. #2

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    she just evolved from a singer/songwriter/"folk singer" and expanded her horizons.
    she was slowly going in that direction, hiring jazz musicians along the way, probably beginning w/ Court and Spark to a degree and culminating in Mingus

    big fan btw....


  4. #3
    I love those albums from the seventies. I was surprised by how quickly she evolved, but there is no doubt that she is a master songwriter.

  5. #4

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    She said in an interview that she had been trying to get folk musicians to play what were her natural rhythms, only to be told time and again that she had too many beats in this or that bar, or too few. And then one day she played a song to a pro jazz drummer, who just played her songs perfectly. He'd say, "love that 7/8 to 4/4 to 11/16 change!" or something like that, and she instantly realised that there was nothing wrong about what she had been naturally doing, she just needed musicians who were capable of realising it. So, possibly that was when she started looking to jazz musicians for band members, and they in turn would influence her. I adore the Mingus album!

  6. #5

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    My all time favorite album with her is without a doubt Hejira. Extremely beautiful songs, and Jaco is amazing there, he shows off his melodic sense, and kills it.

  7. #6

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    Her guitar approach involved trying her usual chord grips with different tunings. She attributed this partly to having a weak left hand due to childhood illness. Approaching the guitar that way is going to result in some non-standard chords. Write some songs with that approach and you're getting yourself ready for jazz.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Her guitar approach involved trying her usual chord grips with different tunings. She attributed this partly to having a weak left hand due to childhood illness. Approaching the guitar that way is going to result in some non-standard chords. Write some songs with that approach and you're getting yourself ready for jazz.

    A huge part of her original/unusual untraditional voice on the guitar is of course the alternative tunings. Very powerful indeed.

  9. #8

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    I just played a gig at a big theater that is having a tribute to Joni Mitchell Concert, and a guy who worked there said she's very ill right now. Don't know the details.

  10. #9

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    Her singing and writing are what skyrocketed her. She plays guitar and piano just right to support her voice and lyrics. She's extraordinary.

  11. #10

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    Loved Blue, but that's probably a bit common. After that it seemed it was more of the same. Jazzier, very good, but the impact had gone.

  12. #11

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    A great Guitarist .

    On her way to becoming a great Songwriter , she became a great Guitarist .

    I have voicings that simulate ' Odd Tunings ' with unisons and seconds
    and minor seconds etc.. and have been rhythmatizing them (lol - sure that's a word ) .

    I don't listen to much music these days except occasional youtube but was listening to some Joni recently .

    Cool thing about her is the general lack of Travis Picking Ragtime thing ...Travis Picking is cool but eventually gets monotonous ( Ragtime Stride Piano etc.) ...
    She doesn't rely on that much and her voicings and chord progressions are often very interesting...

    Brilliant Musician/Guitarist IMO.

  13. #12

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    Not a bad pianist either.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Not a bad pianist either.
    Exactly ,or Singer or Songwriter.Or , lyricist.

    Must be nice to be a genius ...

    On one of the ' Science ' broadcasts Physicist Michio Kaku was explaining how the heavy elements in our bodies like Iron and Calcium were forged in Stars and the very heavy elements were forged in Supernovae ...he said 'we are literally made from Stardust- try to find a song about that ' .

    Joni Mitchell 1969 'Woodstock' 'we are stardust ' - I thought it was a metaphor but Joni may have had physicist friends (?) or ...

    Just a Genius .

    I mean it's not super hard to fingerpick like that but to dream it up before anyone else was doing it and some of her chord changes and voicings , creativity ....

    Mike Moreno mentioned her as an influence , I admire his creativity on Acoustic or fingerstyle Electric also .... I thought it was cool that a straight Jazzer ( probably no such thing though ) would have Joni as an influence .

  15. #14

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    She is a genius and I listen to her all the time, mainly the early to middle stuff. Probably my favorite album is Court and Spark. What great songs, a great voice, a great band (Larry Carlton, Tom Scott, Joe Sample, etc.), and great arrangements.

    As you may be aware she had a brain aneurysm about 4 years ago and has made a very slow recovery. I don't know about her current health status.

    Joni Mitchell At 75: Trouble Is Still Her Muse : NPR

    She has been known to say some pretty unfiltered things about her peers, such as Bob Dylan. She reminds me of my birthmother in this respect. I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing for her art, but that's who she is.

    Brandi Carlisle had an interesting story about hanging with Joni earlier this year:
    “I’ve been doing this job — and it is the greatest job in the world — for such a long time. But overnight, my life changed. The craziest shit that happened is that the night after the Grammys, we got to go out to dinner with Joni Mitchell. She made us all drink Pinot Grigio and ordered all our food for us,” Carlile explained. “She’d had an aneurysm about six years ago, and she was unconscious in her kitchen for two days before they found her. And she was already a polio survivor, and has had to learn to walk and talk again twice in her life. But she’d sworn off music.
    “At end of the night, she said to me, ‘The only thing that bothers me is I’ve got all these instruments in my house. Maybe you’d want to put together a group of young people and come and play.’ I didn’t tell her I’m like the world’s shittiest guitar player,” she laughed.
    As the story goes, Carlile brought Hozier with her to Mitchell’s house the next week. They drank more wine and ate enchiladas. Carlile and Hozier played for Mitchell for a while. And then, in walked Chaka Kahn and then Herbie Hancock.
    “Our hearts were in our throats. And we were just terrified, but the vibes were good on that magical night. Herbie’s hands started gliding around the piano while we’re all introducing ourselves. And then from the middle of the room, we hear this voice sing, ‘Summertime, and the living is easy.’ And it’s (expletive) Joni Mitchell. She opened her mouth and she sang again, and she didn’t stop singing for an hour. I don’t think I’ve been so inspired in my life.”

    How Brandi Carlile Made Her Way to the Grammys | CMT
    Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 08-14-2019 at 01:03 PM.

  16. #15

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    Yes. I read what she said about Bob Dylan she said' he is a made up person , he sings in a hillbilly voice ( lol) and is not a good guitar player '.(I am paraphrasing but the gist).

    It's a shame she has health problems ...I would have liked her to stay the same with just a few wrinkles....

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa
    Exactly ,or Singer or Songwriter.Or , lyricist.

    Must be nice to be a genius ...
    Probably not.

    On one of the ' Science ' broadcasts Physicist Michio Kaku was explaining how the heavy elements in our bodies like Iron and Calcium were forged in Stars and the very heavy elements were forged in Supernovae ...he said 'we are literally made from Stardust- try to find a song about that ' .

    Joni Mitchell 1969 'Woodstock' 'we are stardust ' - I thought it was a metaphor but Joni may have had physicist friends (?) or ...

    Just a Genius .
    Yeah but she got it wrong, because it's more like 13 or 14 billion year old carbon. I don't care whether it scans or not. Scientific accuracy makes more better songs.

    Only kidding.

    Always wondered where she got that from. She must have know some people up on cosmology but it was well known in the scientific community by that point - Carl Sagan wasn't doing TV shows back then....

    I mean it's not super hard to fingerpick like that but to dream it up before anyone else was doing it and some of her chord changes and voicings , creativity ....

    Mike Moreno mentioned her as an influence , I admire his creativity on Acoustic or fingerstyle Electric also .... I thought it was cool that a straight Jazzer ( probably no such thing though ) would have Joni as an influence .
    I know a few jazzers influenced by Joni.

    I always thought it striking the way she makes her acoustic guitar sound like an orchestra on the earlier albums. Hejira is pretty magical too although I find a lot of the 70s stuff a bit too autobiographical and self involved... I like the music on Court and Spark but that album can drive me up the wall. The early stuff I like best.... The best Joni songs are not about Joni, but a lot of Joni songs are.

  18. #17

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    She's wrong about Bob Dylan. That was a very superficial assessment.

    He didn't get to where he is by singing like a hillbilly and playing average guitar, he did it by writing some cracking songs.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    She's wrong about Bob Dylan. That was a very superficial assessment.

    He didn't get to where he is by singing like a hillbilly and playing bad guitar, he did it by writing some cracking songs.
    Yes , obviously - and he's a good strummer (' Tangled Up in Blue' - I think his voice is cool too for what he does /did.

    I mean 'Tangled Up in Blue ' sounds great as is ( also Dylan's voice goes nicely into the Tenor Range on that tune he's obviously not Steve Winwood or Sting vocally etc. ) - but some of his writing ( most ?) is just classic.
    Chopping Tangled Up in Blue as accompaniment to a vocal into Neo Classical etc. might not be any better...

    Back to Joni - "Free Man in Paris " -
    if you play the Chorus in your mind ( as Alto Sax ) it sounds like a great Alto Sax Solo or piece .

    Perfect Song for Alto Sax ..or a really really nice clean singing Guitar tone.

    The Rhythms and interval leaps in her melodies are amazing in how well they work in addition to the creativity...

  20. #19

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    In fact, edit that. Not just some cracking songs, tons of cracking songs.

    Greatest Bob Dylan Songs - Top Ten List - TheTopTens(R)

    It's unfair to compare them really, two different kettles of fish entirely.

    Best Joni Mitchell Songs - Top Ten List - TheTopTens(R)

  21. #20
    I am not sure I agree with Joni's assessment of Bob, but that's her bag.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by SandChannel
    I am not sure I agree with Joni's assessment of Bob, but that's her bag.
    Well like all great artists, Dylan puts on a disguise, and steals from his predecessors. In fact, his very name is an invention and a theft

    Joni's had many personae herself. She tried to pass herself off as a black pimp on one of her album covers, and has even admitted as much.

    The way she said what she said about Bob though...


  23. #22

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    I read that a certain point in her career she was using so many alternate tunings she was actually considering stopping live shows as it was becoming difficult to manage . She was turned on to a Roland VG-EX and it allowed her to continue playing live shows without the hassle of multiple guitars or long retuning breaks.

    Joni Mitchell & the Roland VG-8 – nicolechupka

    I have the Roland VG 8 EX it is simply an amazing processor. A bit vintage but still capable to this day of some remarkable results with some sympathetic and considered ears.

    Always loved Joni's jazz inspired music , she comes from the next province west of me - good prairie girl!!

    Will

  24. #23

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    I looked up the Roland VG-EX and they're apparently discontinued. Are there substitutes?

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    I looked up the Roland VG-EX and they're apparently discontinued. Are there substitutes?
    I want one of these even tho' I don't gig anymore & almost never plug in...as many custom tunings as you can be bothered to program..plus amp/guitar modelling



  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by SandChannel
    I am not sure I agree with Joni's assessment of Bob, but that's her bag.
    Sure, I doubt if any of us think that , Joni might not even really ..



    I bet Pat Metheny has some interesting things to say about her - he toured with her awhile right- and that's where she got Jaco.

    I remember seeing Jaco in some of the South Florida Clubs long ago - he also Jammed with Steve Morse onstage once at a Dixie Dregs Concert at University of Miami.

    I think [ Jaco ] he wasn't in very good shape some of the time ...
    He was just walking around , not jamming or anything so I didn't talk to him ...
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 08-16-2019 at 01:08 PM.