Kenny Garrett

[TH]

I thought it'd be fun to look at the style, approach, language and construction philosophy of alto player Kenny Garrett and how this can be translated to the guitar.
Kenny Garrett is a groundbreaker, having worked with Pat Metheny, Miles, very rich solo carreer, and his unique soloing approach unlocks a linear playing that can enrich any guitarist's vocabulary if you want to understand a horn like approach to soloing.
I would like to take a number of his solos, and really take them apart: Note choice, embellishment use, substituted and stated harmonic underlying structures, rhythmic phrasing in pushing the sense of swing, position shifts on the guitar as they're paralleled in harmonic underpinnings, dynamics in bringing a solo line to life, and the committed and variations in the relationship between a given harmony and what you can do with it.
Listen to this piece of his, Song 8 on the changes of Cherokee.
Anybody want to take this adventure with me? We'll have a step by step glimpse into how we can create solos in this style.
I think we'll listen a lot, comment on the harmonic areas, look at note choices, take apart what he did and create our own variations based on the considerations outlined above.
Who's game?
David

[mr. beaumont]

I thought it'd be fun to look at the style, approach, language and construction philosophy of alto player Kenny Garrett and how this can be translated to the guitar.
Kenny Garrett is a groundbreaker, having worked with Pat Metheny, Miles, very rich solo carreer, and his unique soloing approach unlocks a linear playing that can enrich any guitarist's vocabulary if you want to understand a horn like approach to soloing.
I would like to take a number of his solos, and really take them apart: Note choice, embellishment use, substituted and stated harmonic underlying structures, rhythmic phrasing in pushing the sense of swing, position shifts on the guitar as they're paralleled in harmonic underpinnings, dynamics in bringing a solo line to life, and the committed and variations in the relationship between a given harmony and what you can do with it.
Listen to this piece of his, Song 8 on the changes of Cherokee.
Anybody want to take this adventure with me? We'll have a step by step glimpse into how we can create solos in this style.
I think we'll listen a lot, comment on the harmonic areas, look at note choices, take apart what he did and create our own variations based on the considerations outlined above.
Who's game?
David

I dont know how much I could contribute as Kenny's playing is generally a good bit over my head, but I'd be all about something like this.

[Paulie2]

I dont know how much I could contribute as Kenny's playing is generally a good bit over my head, but I'd be all about something like this.

I second this

[TH]

I dont know how much I could contribute as Kenny's playing is generally a good bit over my head, but I'd be all about something like this.

Not intended to be a transcription thread but rather an education thread.
Ex: Let's look at this phrase. It's in G major. What might you do? What is his decision process? Where does the phrase go? What are the essential components (scale and chord tones) and how are they constructed?
Where can the essential line be found on the guitar? (Try it here... or there...)
And what are the embellishments that make this phrase hip? How do they change the rhythmic nature?
And then we'd take these elements and construct three of our own "variations" based on the decision making process I'd speculate Kenny chose... three variations that we might share with each other as we try them out.
We can all learn something from him that we wouldn't have thought to do ourselves. New patterns we construct. Something to complement old patterns.
There's a wealth of Kenny Garrett material out there but none of it has an in depth analysis that allows us to really understand the construction process. THAT's what I'd love to share insight on. Not blind transcription but a look into the layers of options at our disposal when confronted with solo space.

Hear these? Wouldn't you love to be able to make your own, piece by piece and then use them in a way where you never repeat yourself?

Or Morten's look at Kenny's work in this nice lesson of his. Let's take the phrases so we can understand how to really assimilate this linearity into our own playing.

So together as a group, we can take each phrase as a springboard into our own vocabulary.

It's just stuff I'm working on these days so I thought we'd go through this together... if it's anything that appeals to you.
If you don't feel it, then don't give it any further thought...

David

[mr. beaumont]

Not intended to be a transcription thread but rather an education thread.
Ex: Let's look at this phrase. It's in G major. What might you do? What is his decision process? Where does the phrase go? What are the essential components (scale and chord tones) and how are they constructed?
Where can the essential line be found on the guitar? (Try it here... or there...)
And what are the embellishments that make this phrase hip? How do they change the rhythmic nature?
And then we'd take these elements and construct three of our own "variations" based on the decision making process I'd speculate Kenny chose... three variations that we might share with each other as we try them out.
We can all learn something from him that we wouldn't have thought to do ourselves. New patterns we construct. Something to complement old patterns.
There's a wealth of Kenny Garrett material out there but none of it has an in depth analysis that allows us to really understand the construction process. THAT's what I'd love to share insight on. Not blind transcription but a look into the layers of options at our disposal when confronted with solo space.

Hear these? Wouldn't you love to be able to make your own, piece by piece and then use them in a way where you never repeat yourself?

Or Morten's look at Kenny's work in this nice lesson of his. Let's take the phrases so we can understand how to really assimilate this linearity into our own playing.

So together as a group, we can take each phrase as a springboard into our own vocabulary.

It's just stuff I'm working on these days so I thought we'd go through this together... if it's anything that appeals to you.
If you don't feel it, then don't give it any further thought...

David

Totally in.

[bako]

I'm not fully clear what you are looking for in this thread,
but here's a few quick observations about 2 solo segments.

Morten video: The line seems to focus on the Im7 during the VI7 V7 bars.
Conversely, on V7 during the Im. Exceptions being B-A at the end of bar 2,
a passing bII7 (B7) and also Db-A, last notes in bar 4, they can be heard as either
BbmMa7 or F7+.

Possible activity: Creating lines focused on I chord material during V7 and approach chords
conversely combined with focusing on V7 material during the I chord.

1st segment of 7 from DeMarius Jackson video: The line alternates lighter/darker colors on
I and V before resolving. I - C/Eb (major/minor) II/V Dm/AbmMa7 (tri-tone sub)
to C major.

This light/dark scheme can be a model of dual colors addressing a single chord function.

I'll lay back and let this thread evolve to better understand the desired focus.

[Irez87]

My suggestion?

Stay away from other guitarists' rendentions of Kenny Garrett's lines. I like Morten's videos and his playing, but if we try to translate Kenny Garrett onto the fretboard with Morten's vids--you are essentially getting how Morten navigates the fretboard.

When I transcribe--I don't write it down anymore--but when I cop lines, I go to the piano first. I lift the notes and get an idea for articulation and dynamics. Then, when I have a clear sonic picture of the line (everything about the line) I put it to work on the fretboard. I delve even deeper--that means I'm not trying to play lines "in position"--those notes have to SING. So I'll jump around the board and do what it takes to make the line sing as close as it does on the horn. It's way more than finding them notes.

Lifting horn lines is a great way for us to figure out how we individually navigate the fret board. Morten has his way, which he's come to from years of killing playing--but he had to find his way. Likewise, we gotta find out way to carve out lines from the fretboard--it's to each his or her own.

All that said, Garrett is a hell of a player. His stuff off of "Songbook" is just another level of KILLING, me friends. He cuts DEEEEEEP!

Yeap, I'm down. Plus, I can finally demonstrate a direct usage of all that ear training stuff I obsess over. It's gotta have an application, right?

[Irez87]

Already got an idea from Garrett from lifting some of his stuff onto the piana (three finger technique gets the notes, but my pianist friends would have a stroke watching my horrible playing. Hey, it gets the notes out).

Okay, real quick.

Garrett does this thing where he takes something really folksy--states that idea--and runs back to it and adds complexity. It reminds me of McCoy Tyner, especially the pentatonic material.

That's a quick start--I can add more next week when I'm alone and can record some of his hip shite! You gnomes?

Truth, I getz ya, brotherman! To make this thread stick, I think we gotta record our own takes on the material--to make it come off the page and animate. What do you think, Truth?

[TH]

I'm not fully clear what you are looking for in this thread,

I'll lay back and let this thread evolve to better understand the desired focus.

bako, yours are exactly the kinds of things I'm hoping for, insightful and personal observations as part of the big picture. There's a lot of talk and discussion where scales and chords are central to the discussion. I want to avoid that right now. There're questions that are asked by those working out note choice. They're welcome here.
There're questions that are asked when working out rhythmic issues and use of space. They're welcome equally.
There're thoughts and suggestions of context and history that inform the personality and individuality of the player as a soloist. Yeah, that's really welcome here.
Maybe an integrated approach to imagination and an antidote to things that paint ourselves into those corners.
That's what I hear Kenny Garrett so adept at. That's what I hope this discussion will have for the curious and advancing player.

I hope you'll always share your thoughts bako
David

[TH]

My suggestion?

Stay away from other guitarists' rendentions of Kenny Garrett's lines.

Yeap, I'm down. Plus, I can finally demonstrate a direct usage of all that ear training stuff I obsess over. It's gotta have an application, right?

On the same pages here Irez87!
I'm looking forward to your presence here on this evolving and advancing thread.
Quick note: I've come to see things Ear first, Ideas and choices come from an informed and practiced ear, Fingers obey the first two. That'll reflect any contributions I'll make. Any other approaches or philosophies are welcome and your springboards to discussions are wholly invited here.
Looking forward to this
David

[Irez87]

On the same pages here Irez87!
I'm looking forward to your presence here on this evolving and advancing thread.
Quick note: I've come to see things Ear first, Ideas and choices come from an informed and practiced ear, Fingers obey the first two. That'll reflect any contributions I'll make. Any other approaches or philosophies are welcome and your springboards to discussions are wholly invited here.
Looking forward to this
David

What did you think about my reading of Kenny Garrett so far? The more Kenny I listen to--the same is true. He takes something folksy--not a popular song quote, but really FOLKSY--and runs back to it to develop this amazing idea. It's more proof of how great improvisers take something simple and develop it, not the other way around.

Here's the tune that got me into the REAL Kenny G:

You hear what he's doing at around 1:35 mark? There's an example of a folksy melodic cell that he utilizes to develop his solo. Notice that everytime he moves the cell around, it's NOT an exact transposition into another "key". He moves around the idea and alters it slightly to create tension in the home key--that's my ear trained ear coming in. I tried it at the pianimo and it sounds HOT. Next week I'll post some ideas on piano and guitar to exemplify this.

[Irez87]

There's a lot of talk and discussion where scales and chords are central to the discussion. I want to avoid that right now.

I'm so sick of those types of discussions. What scale do I use? Ergh, I would curse--but I'll keep it clean. Not so much here, but on the Truefire live stream broadcasts. Over and over it's "what scale do you use and what pick do you use?" What pick? Really? We're better than that, right?

It's not about the scales--it's about HOW you use the notes.

Over and over again.

I got that EXACT answer from Pete and Adam over at the "You'll Hear It" podcast.

I mean, we got some great players over here at JGF. But no one comes close to touching Peter Martin over here (Adam is a close second). Not even Reg, as much as I love his playing.

So if Adam and Peter say "I never think of a whole scale when I improvise--ESPECIALLY on modal tunes"

Well, I LISTEN! (that's Peter's favorite piece of advice, LISTEN)

AMEN to that, brothers and sisters!

[skittles]

I’ll be a lurker here due to lack of time but high interest.

However, the description of “folksy” developed into complexity conjures for me some quasi-recent examination of Stravinsky.

The argument is that Stravinsky approached pieces like Sacre less by virtue of scale or overarching pitch collection but by superimposition of more basic (read as vernacular) elements that incidentally sound those structures.

The analytic thread starts in around here, w/ a colossal theoretical/musicological pissing match to follow:

https://dmitri.mycpanel.princeton.ed...stravinsky.pdf

Enjoy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TH]

What did you think about my reading of Kenny Garrett so far? The more Kenny I listen to--the same is true. He takes something folksy--not a popular song quote, but really FOLKSY--and runs back to it to develop this amazing idea. It's more proof of how great improvisers take something simple and develop it, not the other way around.

It's one of the things that I love about his playing, and one of the ways this way of playing changed my relationship with the fingerboard. I hear his lines as breathing statements, comprised of individual thoughtful smaller phrases. This is what changed my playing. Instead of long linear scale or modal based lines, there were more urgent conjoining compelling statements in these solo lines.
Actually I hear this in Monk's music, in Lee Morgan's solos, two people I really love, and coincidentally, two people who worked with simpler song forms and really used the breakdown of statements into rhythmic phrases to construct truly unique solos.
I didn't come across this nearly as much in guitar players, which is fine, but I say this because through KG's music a whole bunch of entirely new ways of solo construction came to me. We'll get into this more through examples but suffice it to say my positions change a whole lot more in the course of a line, coincident with small harmonic centres and dominant chord substitutions and harmonic approach chords.

David

[TH]

The argument is that Stravinsky approached pieces like Sacre less by virtue of scale or overarching pitch collection but by superimposition of more basic (read as vernacular) elements that incidentally sound those structures.

The idea of collage comes to mind. Yes I can see that, and I think you bring up a really nice parallel in smaller structures making up the whole as worth while to keep in mind.
Great ideas, got to explore this further. Thanks
David