Jim Hall Sound

**neatomic** · 07-08-2019, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by sgcim

I was just reading about how Hall used a guitar tuned up a fourth on a Gerry Mulligan Sextet album called "Night Lights" recorded in 1963. I think they were going for a harp-like effect. Never heard it.

good album...w art farmer & bob brookmeyer...here's opening title track--hall sounds a bit tentative on it..but his tone is not far from his regular tone...i get the harp like idea, but not altogether convincing! hah

cheers

**sgcim** · 07-09-2019, 01:15 AM

It must have been Mulligan's idea to have Jim tune the thing up a fourth. Mulligan was pretty wild in the 50s; considered himself a Beat like Kerouac.
I read a great oral history of that time by Gordon Jack called "Fifties Jazz Talk", and one figure that keeps popping up was Mulligan's crazy GF at that time, Gail Madden. Mulligan claims it was her idea to dispense with the piano in his quartet with Chettie.
She wound up playing the maracas(!) on some of those LPs. She was a classical pianist and model in NYC, when Gerry met her, and she had dreams of starting a Jazz Junkies' Hospital with a hooker friend of hers, to treat Bird and all the other jazz junkies in NY. It fell through, but she wound up hitchhiking with Mulligan from NY to California!
No one knew her real name, because she was living with saxophonist Dave Madden before she met Mulligan, and even though they never got married, she decided to take Madden's last name!
Because she was also living with Bob Graettinger (City of Glass) at one time, she introduced Gerry to Stan Kenton, and Gerry wrote some things for Kenton's band.

Your assignment, Neatomic, is to come up with a picture of the mysterious Gail Madden! I've tried, but have come up empty...

.

**neatomic** · 07-09-2019, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by sgcim

Your assignment, Neatomic, is to come up with a picture of the mysterious Gail Madden! I've tried, but have come up empty...

s- you sent me down a rabbithole with that one!...big graettinger/city of glass fan!!!..found a lot of great info..best were an interview with bud shank..and another with bill crow...they had much to say about the madden/madden/ graettinger/mulligan alliance! haha

but alas no pic..perhaps better left to the imagination...sounded pretty cool tho!!

good stuff!

cheers

ps- on the original pacific jazz mulligan quartet record...mulligan thanks "gale" madden for pushing the piano-less quartet idea..that bit was subsequently dropped from future pressings!!!

**sgcim** · 07-10-2019, 12:46 AM

According to Bob Whitlock, Gerry and Gail had been reading "The Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand, when they first arrived in LA, and they saw themselves as Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal from the movie! LOL!
She lived with Graettinger for two years 1947-49, and she was described as looking even freakier than Graettinger.
Graettinger came home one day and found she had dyed everything in the house pink- bedspread, towels, curtains clothes shoes, everything.
She just disappeared from the jazz scene in 1952.

Those interviews you read with Shank and Crow were in the "Fifties Jazz Talk" book I read, and were taken from "Jazz Journal International'.
There were 27 interviews/chapters in the book, all fascinating.

**Tina Jäckel** · 09-01-2019, 04:07 AM

I did a transcription of his solo on "Stella by Starlight"(in G) and I tried to play along with him as closely as possible. I read in an interview that he gave that he ´s using the pick mainly to set the string in motion and let the left hand do most of the work....That´s quite a challenge!! I am used to playing every note with a pick

let me know if you like to have the transcription

**Cunamara** · 09-01-2019, 01:56 PM

"The Bridge" with Sonny Rollins and "Interaction" with Art Farmer are some of my favorite works of Jim Hall in terms of his tone and his conceptions. Just superb stuff all the way around. I really liked his ES-175/P90 tone in particular, which is also (to my ears) what he was using on many of the Paul Desmond records. There is a nice combination of an acoustic and electric vibe there. When I ordered a pickup from Pete Biltoft, those records were the reference sounds I cited for him; he suggested a CC rather than P90 floater and did a very good job of getting me what I wanted, but Jim's sound is in Jim's mind and expressed through his hands- without having those, it's very hard to closely emulate him.

His first album as a leader "Jazz Guitar" sounds so very different from all his other records. You could be forgiven for thinking you'd wandered into a Tal Farlow or Jimmy Raney session on some of those tunes: bright, up front, kinetic boppish lines instead of the usual introspective approach that you'd expect. To me that makes that album an interesting standout in his catalog.

**Doug B** · 09-01-2019, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Alter

i think cutting all these fast tempos without the speed chops is an art in itself, and the musical results can be great. Peter Bernstein is a lot like that too, Miles too..

Interesting that you mentioned Miles. I read somewhere that Miles asked Jim to play on a session (Think it was Kind of Blue) but Jim was doing something else. What a session that would have been with the addition of Jim Hall.

Doug

**Cunamara** · 09-01-2019, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

Interesting that you mentioned Miles. I read somewhere that Miles asked Jim to play on a session (Think it was Kind of Blue) but Jim was doing something else. What a session that would have been with the addition of Jim Hall.

The legend also is that Jim didn't want to work with Miles and ducked him for weeks.

**Doug B** · 09-02-2019, 02:35 AM

Wonder why JH didn't want to work with Miles? Hmmm...

**cosmic gumbo** · 09-02-2019, 05:04 AM

Interview I read says they were friends with lots of mutual friends, and Hall having played with Bill Evans. Miles wanted Hall for Miles in the Sky, but he was committed to his Merv Griffin Show gig and suggested George Benson. Seemed like no intentional avoidance, Hall avoided phone calls from everyone, Sonny Rollins had to go corner him at his apartment to get him to do The Bridge.

**dot75** · 09-02-2019, 05:47 AM

I saw an interview (I think it's the Library Of Congress One) where he says he felt he'd lost his chops doing the Merv Griffin gig for so long - he looked down one night & saw he'd worn a spot on the upper bout of the guitar from resting his chin there whilst not playing...hence the Benson recommendation - I think he dodged a question about Miles' reputation...

**dot75** · 09-02-2019, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Tina Jäckel

I read in an interview that he gave that he ´s using the pick mainly to set the string in motion and let the left hand do most of the work....That´s quite a challenge!!

Trying to get his sound to blend with Jimmy Giuffre led to fewer pick strokes, and trying to play whole legato phrases on a single string - something he recommends as a practice tool, he would wrap elastic bands around the other strings so he couldn't cheat.

**Bbmaj7#5#9** · 09-02-2019, 07:54 AM

Interesting article from 1 July 1999 about Jim Hall.

Jim Hall: The Emperor of Cool - JazzTimes

**grahambop** · 09-02-2019, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

Interesting that you mentioned Miles. I read somewhere that Miles asked Jim to play on a session (Think it was Kind of Blue) but Jim was doing something else. What a session that would have been with the addition of Jim Hall.

Doug

Jim Hall talks about the Miles business here:

Interview: Jim Hall (Part 3) - JazzWax