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Originally Posted by Jonah
Facts do matter when you make claims based on them.
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01-11-2019 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
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Concerning Joe's reading ability, he stated that his sight reading only started to get good when he was in his mid 40s. And the notion that he didn't know theory seems wrong. He may not have thought in theoretical terms when he was playing but he knew theory well.
No one that doesn't know theory can play the way he did or with the people he did.
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Originally Posted by rlrhett
I made a point to define exactly what I was talking about so people understood what I was comparing; most people ignored that.
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Don't forget that this whole technique of playing solo jazz arrangements, developed enough to be able to hold an audience for a whole concert, this whole style of playing was basically developed and popularized by Joe Pass. Of course all good players could play solo numbers, but Joe's voice IS this chapter of the jazz guitar language, just as Wes is octaves, Martino a certain line aesthetic, Grant Green the gospel-blues acid jazz thing and so on.
I really enjoy these players mentioned on this thread, i think they are great and inspiring to listen to (thanks youtube ), but technique is just a means to an end. Joe Pass was a giant, i don't think there was something unaccomplished in his technique that was holding his musical ideas back. You can't look for a classical players right hand technique on a jazz musician, it is irrelevant for most. Say Russell Malone,many times he plays arpeggios with only the thumb and first finger, horrible technique with classical standards, yet he plays what he wants perfectly, with impeccable musicianship and sound, so i wouldn't call his technique week or bad, just accomplished.
If i were to mention players that i think really took the Pass thing one step further they would be Tuck Andress and Charlie Hunter.. Mick Goodrick is also a total monster at that if you ever catch him live in a drumless trio setting, mixing bass, voicings and percussion. Many great players these days develop that style of playing... the Joe Pass style!!
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Originally Posted by eh6794-2.0
I think that explains the reaction people had. I don't think many of us think of Joe Pass as a guitarist "whose hands are fast enough to fill in the space and create a second melody with the rhythm". Speed isn't really what set Joe appart, nor is speed an integral issue in his style. It isn't that people are not understanding you, it is that they disagree with your central premise.
To me what defines Joe Pass was his ability to take orchestral pop tunes of his youth and create fun, IMPROVISED, solo guitar performances from them. And not just do it, but do it so well he could fill concert halls with those performances. His performances were so compelling that they stood on their own even if you had never heard the original pop tune. If Antoine Boyer took pop tunes from the 90's and made spontaneous, appealing, toe tapping, fun classical guitar performances from them that were popular entirely apart from the original grunge recordings then the comparison might make more sense to people.
Focusing on Joe Pass' speed is a bit like saying that Michael Jordan's style is that he could "jump really high when dunking a ball". If that is what you think makes Michael Jordan who he was as a player, it makes perfect sense to compare him to other basketball players who can jump really high. Wilt Chamberlain and Darrell Griffith both could out jump Michael Jordan, but you aren't going to get a lot of buy-in to the notion that Darrell Griffith was a "better" basketball player because he could jump higher.
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Anyone here who thinks Joe Pass couldn't play fast needs to spend more time studying the work of Joe Pass (and probably also needs to spend more time improving their own playing) rather than posting absurd proclamations on an Internet forum.
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Whoa Nellie! I had to slow down the video just to make sure I didn't miss any notes, it didn't help.
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Who said that? Is he asleep?
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Who thinks that? Are they asleep?
We're not doing very well today, are we!
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Originally Posted by rlrhett
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Originally Posted by ragman1
I don't say Joe Pass was a "classical" guitarist but he certainly had a bit of it in his background. Playing through Carcassi... he said in an interview (cited above) that he found Carcassi's material more interesting than Nick Lucas. When he traveled with the "Guitar Summit" (I think that was what it was called) the three guitarists would often switch genres. Joe would play classical, Paco Pena would play whatever you call Leo Kottke's style, and Leo would play jazz which he always said came out sounding like the "Woody Woodpecker" theme song. But Joe could handle the classical pieces easily, even improvising on them on the fly.
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
This kid Andre .. he looks and plays like he really had classical training.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by joe2758
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
** Actually I'm not really but it doesn't matter :-)
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Just came across this wonderful Amazon customer review for Joe’s album ‘Meditation’:
“It’s ok but I don’t find it very relaxing for meditation.”
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Yep Joe is just the Taj Mahal of guitarists, the Rolls-Royce, the Michael Jordan...
What I find interesting is that I'm used to his Virtuoso stuff and his playing with Ella, as well as other quartets, etc. However, I may find myself listening to some random jazz playlist on Spotify or Google Play, and a song comes on that's so good and seems to be in the style of Johnny Smith, or Barney Kessel, or Pat Martino, and it's Joe!
He could play in so many different styles, at least in the jazz realm. With or without a pick.
I will quibble a little about the classical...while I have heard his nylon string album Unforgettable and have no doubt he could play some of the repertoire, I really doubt he could play the higher-level stuff with any facility, because it is so demanding of technique and repetitive study. (Classical players rarely make good jazz players either, but that's a different issue.) I recall a video of him playing with John Williams I think where it was clear they were best in their respective genres. Someone can prove me wrong if they have a recording.
I've also never seen Joe shred a heavily distorted Les Paul, but hey, that's to be expected.
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Then there is this wonderful exchange:
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This is about as close to fusion / rock as Joe ever got.
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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when the great joe pass was in rehab in the early 60's...and upon his release...he played many guitars that don't quite fit his image...fender jazzmasters (25.5 scale)...fender jaguar (24" ish scale.. ala byrdland)..he did albums/sessions on acoustic 12 string!!!...whatever means needed
the man could make a cardboard ukulele sound good
cheers
Has anyone played or had a Supro Amulet ?
Today, 04:44 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos