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Feel sure I should know the answer, but just wondering where the Thunk concept came from in the first place. Certainly not Wes at 16:11secs and many other points here.................
What, who am I missing?
David
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01-26-2018 04:09 PM
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I've always heard "thunk" used in connection with laminate full sized hollow-body guitars like the ES175, ES125, ES350, Tal Farlow. I don't recall hearing anyone describe an L5ces as having "thunk" but other equally virtuous things are said of it.
I do remember some Charlie Christian track called "Chonk Charlie Chonk." Maybe unrelated?
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This is what I thank when I think thunk.
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Wasn't there a whole thread about "thunk" a couple years ago? I recall everybody posting clips saying "here's real thunk" and "This is great playing, but not "thunk" and such as that. Don't remember in what connection, but we really got deep into the cosmic realities of thunk-hood and thunkaliciousness and all kinds of other chunky thunky funky things.
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When someone says "thunk" I immediately think of Tal Farlow and his mid-50s sound on the ES-150. Jeff and Lawson nailed it. Dis is da thunk. His track "Mahoney's 11 Ohms" exemplifies it, but I couldn't find that on YouTube.
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Here you go. It's the first track.
Tal Farlow - Tal Farlow '78. - YouTube
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I dig! Would be cool to have a guitar that sounds like that, of course, it's down to the player as well !
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
But actually, Tal is wonderful and incredibly influential and all, however I always find myself wishing he wasn't as sloppy technically. I get how he's always "going for it" and is right at the edge of his (prodigious) technical ability, yet I keep wishing he played less notes and went for cleaner expression. Mind you, when I do hear precisely executed "thunky" lines like early Martino, or Pass, I'm wishing these players would take more risks like Tal
... I only mention this here, Mr B, because you have turned me on to a lot of cool stuff over the years, so who would you say are players, that fit somewhere in between Tal and Martino, that also exhibit the thunk?
(BTW - who's the piano player on that cut?)
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A big thunk you to all. Got it now - Tal is the culprit!
David
BTW - Always understood it was a laminate and not a carved thing - just not sure who.
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
It's interesting to note however that Wes is said to have played the incredible jazz guitar sessions on a ES175 which he borrowed from Kenny Burell.
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I don't get the thunk so much from Tal Farlow. It's more CC, Barney Kessel. It's more of a 'pop'.
To me it just means not a lot of sustain. Probably has to do with a rosewood bridge, pickup placement, amp and guitar setting, and technique in both hands.
Combination of things.
This is excellent thunk;
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01-28-2018, 06:55 AM #11Dutchbopper Guest
Thunk is a term coined by Jack Zucker (I believe, correct me if I am wrong). It is used to denote certain classic vintage laminate guitar sounds that you hear on 50s and early 60s records by Tal Farlow, Joe Pass etc. Check out Jim Hall's album too for thunky sounds.
Indeed MVI is a contemporary thunk player.
Wes is not in the thunk school, as so many other great guitarists.
DBLast edited by Dutchbopper; 01-28-2018 at 08:40 AM.
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You may be correct. I have absolutely no idea what 'thunk' means, so I certainly can't argue with you.
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Listen to the wound strings on the above clips. That's the thunk.
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I never would have thought of calling that thunk. To me, thunk denotes a dead, dull sound.
From Merriam-Webster:Or then there is this:Definition of thunk
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See thunk defined for English-language learners
Examples of thunk in a Sentence
- The book landed on the floor with a thunk.
But maybe I'm just too old to be a hipster.
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Dude, really, listen to the Farlow clip, listen to the low strings...there's about...no sustain. But it still sounds great.
People get in it in their head that the thunk is the only good jazz guitar sound...not even close! But it's one of them.
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I never thought of lack of sustain equaling thunk, but as I said, I really don't know what it means, and I'm not sure it means the same thing to everyone. But if thunk is just the sound of dead strings with no sustain, it's very easy to get it. I'm not a big fan of dead-sounding strings, which is one reason I don't use TI flats. That's not a sound I like, but I'm certainly not everyone, or even a majority.
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Is genuine Thunk exclusive to late 40’s to 60’s Gibson guitars? It seems to be. Could it be old growth lumber + thin plate laminates + Brazilian RW = thunk, with perhaps older amp circuits adding a bit too?
If you’re familiar with Jens Larsen’s YT vids, he has an early 50’s 175 that exemplifies Thunk for me. I’ve only seen one vid where he uses it but it does sound fantastic.
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I wouldn't say Gibsons are the only thunk machines, but yeah, a laminate Gibson from the 50's is pretty much the quintessential thunker.
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What are the amplifiers that facilitate thunk ? Polytones ? Non reverb middy tube amps ?
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Yeah- you can have a " thunk" at the attack and still have sustain afterwards...right ?
Some Guitars have a low resonant frequency sensitivity or peak ...which is near the lower strings or a multiple (s) of those notes on the low E and lower A string so there is a 'woof' sympathetic vibration that happens, possibly a subharmonic but sloppier mathematically to the note you hit. Not a perfect fifth or octave down = sloppier = nonharmonic .
Possibly in the wood top and also in the air column inside the body ( ? ).
I love Jack Z's Guitar Reviews ...he notices everything even stuff that Luthier's don't ( like string thru body usually increases feeling of more tension on the strings - despite the math ) - I would defer to his explanation of where the thunk is from..
He mentions his ES 175 has it more than the Seventy Sevens in his comparison..
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What else could contribute; the strings used back then were more likely to be monel steel weren’t they, at least the Gibson strings? What other manufacturers were making flats in the 1950’s?
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To my ears the thunkiest guitars are laminates. Gibson used a maple-poplar-maple laminate on the ES-350 and ES-175, AFAIK. Flatwound strings, generally. I think of da thunk as the opposite of a singing tone like one gets with a carved spruce topped instrument like an L-5 or a D'Angelico. Johnny Smith and Wes didn't thunk so much, they had more of a singing tone.
Do pickups matter- CC for Tal and Barney and Jimmy, P-90 for early Herb and Jim? But Joe Pass was thunky on his ES-175 with humbuckers. Or is it more the property of the guitar?
As to amps, Tal tended to use a Fender Twin. I think that contributed.
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If Tal "Thunks", does Danny "Twang"?
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The 25.5" scale 17" gibson laminates of the 50s are as thunky as it gets. Somehow I think the scale length contributes (inversely) to sustain. I once purchased a 1952 ES 175 but I was disappointed at how much I preferred my 1952 Gibson ES 150. The 175 went back. I also owned an ES 125 for a day before getting trying 150. I know everyone's drooling over 125s right now on the gear forum, but I think the 150 absolutely kills it.
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Thunk sound like hitting a musical wood block with a mallet, to me. Thunk! With that sound I hear less string, more wood. Typically da thunk is most prominent on the fatter wound strings, less noticeable to me ears on the plain strings. It is a sound that works well for bebop, a little less well for more legato styles, and poorly for styles that are sustainy. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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