The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary

View Poll Results: Django vs Charlie Christian

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  • Django

    34 52.31%
  • Charlie Christian

    31 47.69%
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  1. #76

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    Have any of you guys watched that Ken Burns documentary lately? Even on the later sodes dealing with bop/modern jazz they continue talking about trad jazz. It's f ckin annoying man and Wynton Marsalis uh man he's a good player but does he ever get on my nerves. And he's a hypocrite, talking about you gotta come to and except a new style it's not coming to you. But he's routinely put down and criticized free jazz and fusion!!

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  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by FZ2017
    If your not taking risks your not playing jazz my friend!

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    ... careful, there are folks on these forums that get offended by such statements!

  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by FZ2017
    Have any of you guys watched that Ken Burns documentary lately? Even on the later sodes dealing with bop/modern jazz they continue talking about trad jazz. It's f ckin annoying man and Wynton Marsalis uh man he's a good player but does he ever get on my nerves. And he's a hypocrite, talking about you gotta come to and except a new style it's not coming to you. But he's routinely put down and criticized free jazz and fusion!!

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    There's threads about it, here and elsewhere. My take FWIW was that if you go to the trouble and cost of making a documentary, you should be allowed to have it reflect your own inevitable bias. The prerogative of the Director and all that...

    Burns doesn't owe History anything, it's not meant to be a final historical document funded by the Government or whatever, Burns creates Entertainment. Period. I found it entertaining, I didn't even mind that Wes wasn't mentioned, let alone about a thousand others. It was successful entertainment, like much of his stuff.

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    ... careful, there are folks on these forums that get offended by such statements!
    My bad don't mean to offend anyone. Hell improvisation alone is a risk. You can mess up anytime playing changes.

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  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    There's threads about it, here and elsewhere. My take FWIW was that if you go to the trouble and cost of making a documentary, you should be allowed to have it reflect your own inevitable bias. The prerogative of the Director and all that...

    Burns doesn't owe History anything, it's not meant to be a final historical document funded by the Government or whatever, Burns creates Entertainment. Period. I found it entertaining, I didn't even mind that Wes wasn't mentioned, let alone about a thousand others. It was successful entertainment, like much of his stuff.
    Speaking of history, this channel contains nothing but unreleased recordings of live performances
    Joe Louis
    - YouTube

  7. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Sure, his shows are probably very varied depending who is playing with and what the gig is. I guess my point is - and you may think it belaboured as I do like to go on about it - that I seem to prefer players with personality and attitude. It's the last vestige from my punk rock past...
    Ok then, what living players have that vibe for you?

  8. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Ok then, what living players have that vibe for you?
    Yes, good question (and way to show up my limited listening...), GB, Birelli, Clint Strong, Martino... just a few I can think of straight up. Love to learn about some newer guys...

  9. #83

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    Rob, that was just lovely. I can imagine Audrey Hepburn walking down the street in a film with that first piece playing in the background.

  10. #84

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  11. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Because they never made a recording together?

  12. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Would you mind if I'd throw T.Bone Walker into the mix here?
    There's a book about T-Bone Walker and Charlie Christian.

    https://www.amazon.com/Trading-Licks.../dp/1574243144

    The author, Joseph Weidlich, also wrote "The Guitar Chord Shapes of Charlie Christian" and several books on banjo music and also some mandolin books in addition to other guitar books.

  13. #87

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    Reinhardt influenced band mate Stephane Grappelli and vise versa. Grappelli was an influence to other jazz violinist.

    Not a direct influence and nothing revolutionary, just pushing jazz forward.

  14. #88

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    For me, Charlie is the much bigger influence.
    I enjoy hearing Django but I don't know that he's influenced me much.
    Curiously, the guitar player I like the most who is heavily influenced by Django is...Willie Nelson.


  15. #89

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    My view is that Django is far and away the best jazz guitarist ever, followed by Charlie. Followed by Wes. But in terms of influence, I agree Charlie leads the way.

  16. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil59
    My view is that Django is far and away the best jazz guitarist ever, followed by Charlie. Followed by Wes. But in terms of influence, I agree Charlie leads the way.
    They are the big three, alright.

  17. #91

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    These polls are always subjective. Some Django, some Christian. But I’m a Wes advocate because he influenced a generation of players after the most important time in jazz, and that was the 50’s onward. Wes was humble, but boy was he brilliant and could swing like no other! I prefer Wes’ music to um-pa chords. To each their own.

  18. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    These polls are always subjective. Some Django, some Christian. But I’m a Wes advocate because he influenced a generation of players after the most important time in jazz, and that was the 50’s onward. Wes was humble, but boy was he brilliant and could swing like no other! I prefer Wes’ music to um-pa chords. To each their own.
    I love Wes too.
    He certainly came along later and recorded a lot. Of course, many think Wes' later output was too commercial, not jazzy enough. I can love Wes and at the same time acknowledge he had a big influence on Muzak guitar...

    For me, nearly everything I do on the guitar day-in and day-out (at least the default stuff) can be traced back to Charlie. (And T-Bone Walker and...)
    I love to hear Dgango, usually a lot in a short time, and then no more for quite some time. I can always listen to Charlie.

  19. #93

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    But this opinion poll makes no sense for you’re comparing one person who had but a few years, against another who had a career. I don’t get it.

  20. #94

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    For what it's worth Wes' prime influence was Christian, he took Charlie's approach and modernized it.
    So probably safe to say even though CC's career was short, he had the overwhelming influence.

  21. #95

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    I am another one who can listen to Django (and la pompe) all day long. I am about to over generalize something: I look at American jazz as sad jazz and Gypsy jazz as happy jazz. Something very uplifting to me when listening to Django. In addition, his modern followers have taken his techniques to a higher level than him,( and Django was definitely no slouch technique wise,) but there is something intangible in his playing that, after listening to Joscho Stephan or Jimmy Rosenberg for a while and going back to Django I say to myself, "Ah there it is!"

    Every now and then I get on a Django binge and study his tunes and picking technique. While I will never be Django, my right hand has improved drastically every time I play. No matter what style I am playing, I use Gypsy picking technique and it is amazing how much control I have. For that, and other reasons, I am forever in Django's debt.

  22. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    For what it's worth Wes' prime influence was Christian, he took Charlie's approach and modernized it.
    So probably safe to say even though CC's career was short, he had the overwhelming influence.
    No, Wes’ approach was like Christian on steroids!


  23. #97

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    Here's a thing that's often occurred to me. I listen to Wes and GB and so on, and I also hear a lot of Django. Wes has said he got the idea of octaves from Django (IIRC.) There's a lot of Django in GB's playing too to my ears. For instance his sound has some of that gypsy stridency to it.

  24. #98

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    Probably because both use rest strokes?

  25. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    Probably because both use rest strokes?
    Quite a few of the big jazzers of the era use rest strokes, Joe Pass for instance. I don’t think it’s that.

    It contributes, but the choice of pick and amp setting; you can get a rounded sound with benson technique if you want (think Adam Rogers), but I just think GB has a lot of Django in his sensibility. The gypsy guys LOVE him

  26. #100

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    There's a poetry to the music of both Django and Wes that, in my opinion, transcends the guitar and reaches some some kind of sublime plane of universal musicality. Charlie Christian's playing both created a new genre and was the sublime example of an existing genre on the guitar, but his in terms of artistry, I don't find his music to be universal in the way that Wes and Django's strikes me.