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It is even the key to practicing music properly. You can rehearse scales and go through the motions, but you have to have a direction and underlying purpose for practicing, a desire to achieve something that you can share with others. It’s not about just achieving something to be “great,” not about your own glory. I believe when you realize this, you open up the channels of the heart.
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06-03-2017 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Robertkoa
I got to hang at a Wayne Shorter session once and Herbie showed up to hang also. Room was crowed so some of us including Herbie were in the hallway. Some one brought up Herbie being into Nichiren Buddhism which does all the Nam Myoho Renge Kyo chanting. Herbie is talking about it and some saying doesn't all the chanting get boring? Herbie said well I just personalize it and he starts clapping his hands and singing Nam Myoho Renge Kyo in the most funky rhythms ever. Herbie lives to a funky drummer inside of him.
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Yes..Meditation not just the Chanting kind is a great thing..
To change Mental States without Drugs is a great way ( and the only way for me except coffee lol ) to
Change serotonin and other things that people try to do with weed etc.
The true 'high' is the Meditators- not necessarily any one Religion..
McLaughlin is another young looking super enlightened Guy who is also a great Musician and very wise
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From my years in music, religion, spiritually, and art I think they all are trying to control focus and to listen and let the inner voice out. I've talked to musicians who have been junkies, worked in spiritual center for years, and just talked with enlighten people, different words but the all are trying to close off the outside world for a tune or a meditation or even work and focus as closely as possible. Even traditional religions do it calling it prayer. For me knowing that is the goal then the means of getting there is just personal choice and not part of some organized or dictated way. Originally Posted by Robertkoa
Coltrane, Monk, Herbie, Wayne Shorter, and Charles Lloyd are all heroes to me because they understand this and it comes thru in their music.
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I played the Larry Coryell memorial here in Orlando at the Buddhist center he attended. (I was a student and friend of L.C.) The memorial began with about 45 minutes of chanting as this was also Nichirin Buddhism. While it was strange at first, I found it to be very calming. By the time I got up to play my nervousness was gone. And the people I met there were truly wonderful folks.
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I'm not sure what the message here is, is it that because Herbie and Wayne have a spiritual drive behind their music that we should also? Really? This issue is personal, we should let people work out for themselves what they need in their lives. I never tell people to go to Church, nor do I tell them to practice Yoga. And I appreciate not being told what I should do in order to improve my musicality, or my Spirituality for that matter. It's personal, let me choose.
Anyway, people who practice Jazz deeply are already communing with themselves, and with the cosmos really. Music is sound, which exists through simple cosmic laws such as Simple Harmonic Motion. Controlling sound and creating music instantly puts you in touch with the cosmic laws. This is not hippy dippy BS, it's plain science. Not to say it's devoid of beauty, art or emotion, after all, the most profound knowledge in this life can be argued to be Mathematics, which is unfathomably deep and wondrous enough to to make it's best practitioners positively weep. That's the kind of "Spriruality" I strive to commune with, when a certain melody comes through your mind, heart and fingers and into the world, then the planets and the stars all line up, and all is well with the Universe! Of course the first clam that comes along brings it all crashing down
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Look, I think Wayne and Herbie are absolute living Godheads, and are communing with the cosmos on a musical level on a much higher plane than most. You can't blame them for wishing to "enlighten" the rest of us, yet I still resent anyone, even them, if they even seem to be trying to influence people on any levels other than the music. File under, Horoscopes, Crystal Healing, Zen Meditation, Tarot Cards, Religion, Chicken entrails, reading tea leaves etc. Please don't tell me I need any of it. Besides, I already have Music- who needs the other stuff?
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I didn't get that this was preaching at all. I'm always interested in what steps successful people take to get to where they are, even if I don't make those same choices. The beauty you see in mathematics might be the same beauty someone else sees in their spiritual practice. I don't particularly enjoy being preached at either, but if I reframe their enthusiasm for their beliefs against my own references and experience, it sometimes allows me to replace resentmrnt with connection, which i personally appreciate more.
I would really enjoy the chance to hang with Herbie and listen to what he thinks about life! His music is consistently the most amazing example of connected artistry to me. Connected to what, though, and how to get there? Intriguing.
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A little Preaching from a Master in any field won't hurt you anyway.
I have no experience BEING one in any field but some of what a Master says will help some will not...
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OK, maybe you're right, it's just that when these kinds of "messages" are either offered directly or passed on by another, it can come across as preachy to me. As in - "Hey, if you don't try the spiritual techniques of the Masters, then something may be missing in your playing...." Originally Posted by yebdox
Jazz is plenty deep enough for me, as it is!
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I hear you! Sometimes it seems there's a fine line between enthusiasm and preaching. If Herbie gets asked about the secret to his success (and I'm sure he does) he will likely offer his own best interpretation of it. Who could blame him? At least he's not asking us to sacrifice chickens or shoot heroine Originally Posted by princeplanet
OK, maybe you're right, it's just that when these kinds of "messages" are either offered directly or passed on by another, it can come across as preachy to me. As in - "Hey, if you don't try the spiritual techniques of the Masters, then something may be missing in your playing...."
Jazz is plenty deep enough for me, as it is!
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Sure, but it's kinda lame to to seize upon someone else's "secret to success", dontcha think? Here I think we can defer to Miles who would famously say: "You gotta go down a different street". Amen?
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Lol. Well I went to KFC a few days ago and ate Chicken but.....there was no actual Ritual involved. Originally Posted by yebdox
I hear you! Sometimes it seems there's a fine line between enthusiasm and preaching. If Herbie gets asked about the secret to his success (and I'm sure he does) he will likely offer his own best interpretation of it. Who could blame him? At least he's not asking us to sacrifice chickens or shoot heroine
Actually...those Restaurants where you order Lobster and you see the live Lobsters in the Tank ...make me not want to eat the Lobster.
Yeah..sure ..my Post here is on Topic ...
I think mental or spiritual stuff is superior for Altered States, Higher States of Mind...far better than Drugs and preach that a little ( like just now ) and have no 'right' to ..easy enough to prove though...Last edited by Robertkoa; 06-09-2017 at 05:15 PM.
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After studying with Coryell for four years, he mentioned one time that he was a Buddhist. Period. Never preached any thing to me but music. He said on the first lesson "I want you to think outside of the box". I guess if that was preaching, I'll take it.
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You Jazz Guys can Play anything you want ( as long as you tell me how you do it if 'necessary' )..
And look to the East or ' think ' East when you play a
Minor 11th Chord.
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Doc- did you get to hear Wayne Shorter Jamming and Blowing on Herbie's funky Keys !? Originally Posted by docbop
I loved Shorter when I first heard him on Steely Dan Aja ...
And Herbie and Shorter...gotta be amazing ...
Sounds like what Tina Turner chanted.
I've never even seen Hancock live but he looks ..kind of bright eyed..smiles easily...aside from the Music ..
still something special there...
Just listened to this...you can drop a Hip Hop Beat under( mentally) it but they were going for something else- fades in and fades out probably a Jam they Recorded...
Shorter kind of Coltrane-ish on Alto fantastic playing..
I like these simple Chords too.
Is this in 4 /4 ?Last edited by Robertkoa; 06-09-2017 at 06:50 PM.
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Later in on topic is on Jazz and here's another bit from Herbie.
At its heart, jazz does not depend on its commercial value. Like the human heart depends on oxygen, jazz depends on a sense of mission.
I'm sure that will cause some to start typing....
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Agree. It's up to each of us to filter those influences and not to just copy. I just find it interesting to hear what moves others to create, especially when I admire their output. Not sure what voicings or motifs I could cop from a buddhist meditation. If anything, a description of what inspires a Hancock or a Miles doesn't include any concrete musical ideas. And I'm not sure if I would be inspired by what inspired them. But maybe there's a viewpoint they could share. Originally Posted by princeplanet
Can't think of any of those greats that created their stuff in a vacuum, no matter how unique they sound.
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There are a lot a ways to drive to the gig and some guys might take the same way and other have their preferred routes all that's important is making to the gig, or practice in this case. So I don't think trying and using someone else's method is a big deal, bottom line is finding what works for you. Originally Posted by princeplanet
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