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  1. #1

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    With the recent thread on swinging, I was wanting to hear some examples of Jazz Guitarists who swing hard. I think I know a few (Early Pat Martino on "East"). Can you name a few and give some examples for me to hear.

    I always took my knowledge of swinging for granted, but now I want to hear some examples.

    Thanks.

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  3. #2

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    I'd start with Charlie Christian, the Billys (Bean and Bauer) and the immortal Wes.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    I'd start with Charlie Christian, the Billys (Bean and Bauer) and the immortal Wes.
    Great list. Charlie is the source of so much that followed. And he still sounds great.

    Freddie Green swung like nobody's business. His swing is always solid but is never quite metronomic---what he's doing is more subtle and driving than that.

    I'd throw in Barney Kessel and Herb Ellis too. Both influenced by Charlie Christian, both had long careers and were recorded in various settings.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  5. #4

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    I went back and forth on including freddie...in many ways, he is the rock on which the other members of basie's band swing.

    It's not metronomic, but it's close. It's a difference--very slight--in dynamics, tone, and the length of the beat--between 1 and 3 and 2 and 4. It's like Freddie is the root of all that swings, but I'm not sure if I'd recommend a newer player starting there, because rhythm guitar is a whole different beast...

    It's like the guys I mentioned are in the pocket, Freddie was the damn pocket.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  6. #5

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    Charlie Byrd. He swung harder than any guitarist I've ever heard. Charlie Christian is close behind. The recording of the Swing To Spirituals concert of Oh Lady Be Good is one of the swingingest songs I've ever heard, and Christian takes some great solos on it. It always makes me smile and move. Everything I've ever heard of Charlie Byrd, and I've heard a lot, swings very hard. He swung harder than any of the other members of the Great Guitars, and on anything else he played.

  7. #6

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    "He swung harder than any of the other members of the Great Guitars, and on anything else he played."

    ? wow, I'd suggest the exact opposite
    but I never was a Byrd fan.
    now Donald Byrd or Jerry Byrd.....

  8. #7

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    freddie was the rock solid heartbeat, but still swung..his time was so on, that he could play around with it, & still be in... and swing!!


    early jimmy raney swung hard...he was huge into bird and really transfered alot of that kc swing feeling to the guitar

    here's his quintet-featuring stan getz



    cheers

  9. #8

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    Maybe that's why there is so much controversy in the other thread. It seems nobody can agree on what swing is. If you can't hear Charlie Byrd swing, we're talking about different things, ISTM.

  10. #9

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    charlie byrd was big into charlie christian...did a homage to cc..




    swung nicely, tho i dig charlie byrd most for his more eclectic nylon stuff ie getz n byrd


    cheers

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic View Post
    charlie byrd was big into charlie christian...did a homage to cc..




    swung nicely, tho i dig charlie byrd most for his more eclectic nylon stuff ie getz n byrd


    cheers
    This is killing. Never heard this side of byrd...I've heard the bossa stuff (like it) and the great guitars (boooorrrrring) but this is great.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  12. #11

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    Here's Herb and Barney doing "Tangerine." Strong swing here.


    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic View Post
    freddie was the rock solid heartbeat, but still swung..his time was so on, that he could play around with it, & still be in... and swing!!


    early jimmy raney swung hard...he was huge into bird and really transfered alot of that kc swing feeling to the guitar

    here's his quintet-featuring stan getz



    cheers
    Love this..........
    Anyone know the name of the tune?

  14. #13

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    Lee is the tune.

    Jimmy always swung...but the very straight eight's way...like dex. Well. Dex was lazy 8's. Gasp, like bird. Maybe as close as a guitar player ever got.

    Raney was just...incredible. if I could listen to only one guitar player...
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  15. #14

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    here's session info for that great raney date...it was his date...came out first on his jimmy raney plays disc

    getz as sven coolson was the guest, tho in later days he got the session top billing on the reissues due to his popularity

    Jimmy Raney Quintet

    Stan Getz as Sven Coolson (tenor sax) Hall Overton (piano) Jimmy Raney (guitar) Red Mitchell (bass) Frank Isola (drums)
    NYC, April 23, 1953
    471 Signal Prestige PRLP 156, PRLP 7255
    472 Lee -
    473 'Round Midnight -
    474 Motion -
    * Prestige PRLP 7255; Original Jazz Classics OJC-654, OJCCD-654-2 Stan Getz - Early Stan
    = Prestige PR 7434 Stan Getz - Jazz Classics
    * Prestige PRLP 156 Jimmy Raney Plays

    from Jimmy Raney Discography


    cheers

  16. #15

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    George benson for sure

  17. #16

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    So many old school players swung hard, clean, badass chops. Any of these guys on mid to uptempo grooves could kill.

    Tal Farlow
    Wes
    Burrell
    Benson
    Martino
    Pass
    Mundell Lowe
    Johnny Smith
    Howard Roberts
    Herb Ellis
    Kessel....

    ...so many more

  18. #17

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    also, grant green

  19. #18

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    How about the Pizzarelli's?

  20. #19

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    I'll add a relatively obscure but IMO wonderful guitarist: Remo Palmieri. The lovely solo on Dizzy's "Groovin High" is by him. And he has lots of solos - many great ones - on a reissued Teddy Wilson "All-Star Sextet" record (the session was in 46 IIRC). He SWINGS, gracefully.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco View Post
    Love this..........
    Anyone know the name of the tune?
    Yes, it's Lee by Jimmy Raney and dedicated jointly to Lee Konitz and JR's wife, Esterlee. I love all the early Raney tunes - Signal, Motion, Parker 51 (named after the pen, not Bird) - and the incredible playing by both Raney and Getz on those sides.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB View Post
    Yes, it's Lee by Jimmy Raney and dedicated jointly to Lee Konitz and JR's wife, Esterlee. I love all the early Raney tunes - Signal, Motion, Parker 51 (named after the pen, not Bird) - and the incredible playing by both Raney and Getz on those sides.
    While I like early Raney my favorite recordings of his are The Master, since Jimmy plays bebop songs and Porter tunes, and Raney Live in Tokyo (my favorite standard g\b\d trio recording).


    Jimmy was so lyrical.

  23. #22

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    doug raney also did a killer version of (his dads tune) - lee....organ trio setting with joey defrancesco and billy hart..top band

    from doug raney - the backbeat




    cheers

  24. #23

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    Doug always swung. What a loss...cat had a lot of music left in him.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal View Post
    While I like early Raney my favorite recordings of his are The Master, since Jimmy plays bebop songs and Porter tunes, and Raney Live in Tokyo (my favorite standard g\b\d trio recording).


    Jimmy was so lyrical.
    Jimmy just kept getting better...wish he would have hung around a little longer. He was seriously making some of the best records of his career near the end of his life.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  26. #25

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    IMHO, nobody swings harder than George Barnes.
    Below is just one of a "bazillion" examples, when he was playing with Bucky Pizzarelli it was Swing Squared.

  27. #26

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    Teddy Bunn
    Eddie Diehl
    Ray Macchiarolla...

  28. #27

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    1920s - 1940s
    • Allan Reuss
    • Freddie Green
    • Teddy Bunn
    • Tiny Grimes
    • Al Casey
    • Eddie Durham
    • Oscar Moore
    • Charlie Christian
    • Mary Osborne
    • Dave Barbour
    • Django Reinhardt


    1950s - 1960s


    • Barney Kessel
    • Herb Ellis
    • Kenny Burrell
    • Barry Galbraith
    • Jim Hall
    • Mundell Lowe
    • Grant Green
    • Wes Montgomery
    • George Barnes
    • Tal Farlow
    • Jimmy Raney


    1970s-80s

    • Joe Pass
    • John Pisano
    • Cal Collins
    • Bucky Pizzarelli
    • Marty Grosz
    • Emily Remler
    • Philippe Catherine
    • Larry Corryel
    • Doug Raney
    • Wayne Wright
    • Steve Jordan


    1990s-2010s

    • Jordan Officer
    • Tony Marcus
    • Matt Minusteri
    • Jonathan Stout
    • Whit Smith
    • Tommy Harkenrider
    • Chris Flory
    • Howard Alden
    • Russell Malone
    • John Pizzarelli
    • Hanna Richardson
    • Katie Cavera


    This list is incomplete.

    Richard

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Lang View Post

    1990s-2010s

    • Jordan Officer
    • Tony Marcus
    • Matt Minusteri
    • Jonathan Stout
    • Whit Smith
    • Tommy Harkenrider
    • Chris Flory
    • Howard Alden
    • Russell Malone
    • John Pizzarelli
    • Hanna Richardson
    • Katie Cavera


    This list is incomplete.

    Yea, you forgot Brian Setzer!

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by morekiller View Post
    How about the Pizzarelli's?
    Bucky is a giant, one of the solid rocks, and son John is a chip off the old block!

    Enjoy them both.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  31. #30

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    Frank Vignola. Diverse player, great swing, and great taste in voicings while comping. Great teacher too. To top it all off, he's a nice guy.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  32. #31

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    What about...?
    Pierre Dorge
    Lenny Breau
    Mike Stern

  33. #32

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    ray crawford swung

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick1994 View Post
    George benson for sure
    Absolutely !


    Here is absolutely ridiculous chops and Swing on Oleo :


    No Guitarist I have heard swings as hard as Benson.

    As a Guitarist mixing R&B with Jazz and getting closer to really being able to actually do this ( lol )..
    Benson is an Inspiration and even an influence ...( which was not possible previously).


    Here is Mister B on a Stevie Wonder Ballad - listen to the Vibrato ( more than he usually does ) and Masterful Playing with fills and embellishments and the way he can throw vituoso stuff in without messing up the Mood...

    Also great Tension/ Release in the Tune both in the Writing and Benson's interpretation .

    Last edited by Robertkoa; 05-16-2017 at 01:00 AM.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200 View Post
    What about...?
    Pierre Dorge
    Lenny Breau
    Mike Stern
    Yes on Mike Stern- I was just listening to Guitarists playing Giant Steps ( not sure I actually like the Tune ) and Stern actually sounds extremely good on it and swings very well on it- super fluid too.


    Stern swings great on Giant Steps here.And really nice melodic Contour on his Lines- very melodic to my ears.

    Last edited by Robertkoa; 05-16-2017 at 07:44 PM.

  36. #35

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    Benson is the most swinging of anyone living imo

  37. #36

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    Yeah- of course it's somewhat subjective...

    Charlie Christian swung so hard it sounds Rock&Roll to me (in the best sense ).

    And Wes had a slightly relaxed Swing but he didn't sound 'lazy' like some relaxed Players to me - he sounded like he had a "larger pocket" kind of.

    And those Funky Chord things he did were awesome

    odd how very few Jazzers continued that forward...
    And extremely beneficial for me ...lol.

    I have to listen to more of Wes' funkier stuff...just for inspiration.


    Mike Moreno really Swings great too- he says he wasn't the best Player in his High School - but I don't think he went to a 'Normal ' High School.
    He has a LOT of talent on Guitar...strong rhythmically
    and very 'free' conceptually.
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 05-19-2017 at 03:33 PM.

  38. #37

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    Yeah I like Moreno's feel a lot.

    Jim Hall's feel is often overlooked....

  39. #38

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    A masterclass from Frank Vignola and Vinny Raniola, two guys who can sure swing.

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  40. #39

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    if we're including modern players, then adam rogers


    don't forget kurt

  41. #40

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    Pat Metheny! Who Are Some of the Best Swinging Guitarists in Jazz History?

    (Sorry i couldn't resist)

    In seriousness what is the difference between this thread and a list of people's favourite guitarists?

    Btw i like Adam Rogers feel a lot.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Pat Metheny! Who Are Some of the Best Swinging Guitarists in Jazz History?

    (Sorry i couldn't resist)

    In seriousness what is the difference between this thread and a list of people's favourite guitarists?

    Btw i like Adam Rogers feel a lot.
    This is exactly the question I was asking myself. In seriousness, too: I am interested in the replies.

  43. #42

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    Some of the most perfect straightahead playing I have heard for a long time btw can be found in early Lage Lund. Check out his album Mis en Boutielle New York (sp? Apologies francophones.)

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by fasstrack View Post
    Teddy Bunn
    Eddie Diehl
    Ray Macchiarolla...
    Teddy Bunn!!!!!


  45. #44

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    Which is why I always rail on about what "swing" means.

    It really just means "I like it." Or rather, the lack of it is a put down to something we don't like. "That cat doesn't swing."

    Just like "warm" guitar tones.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  46. #45

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    There has to be more to this than a rod for mouldy old figs to beat modernists with. Modern cats don't swing. Etc.

    On the other hand, I get a bit bored of the defensive backlash - 'well x could swing if they wanted to' - to which I always, think, well who cares? I mean you have to judge a musician by what they are actually doing.

    I don't care if Wayne Krantz can play bebop for instance. Why would I care about that?

    Does Krantz's music swing? No? Has he got amazing time and a fantastic sense of groove? Yes.

    Anyway I'm loathe to get into the sort of thing where I say 'x doesn't swing as much as y yadda yadda.' Swing is a difficult word to define. For example player z might play with a swing feel and play swing music, but might not actually swing all that hard. And so on. The difficulty in unpicking this type of thing on the internet appears to lead to heated flame wars lol.

    But progress in music is not like progress in science or sports - one thing is emphasised and something else is discarded.

    For instance at some point it became fashionable to play mostly 8th notes in jazz lines, so we lost some of that push and pull you get from triplet embellishments, but other things become possible - perhaps it's easier to use odd groupings against the beat for instance. When we went over to bop, we lost the basic dance beat that made swing accessible. When a modern drummer metrically modulates with a soloist's cross rhythm it dissipates the tension of traditional swing polymeter, but opens up new possibilities for improvisors.

    And so on.

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Which is why I always rail on about what "swing" means.

    It really just means "I like it." Or rather, the lack of it is a put down to something we don't like. "That cat doesn't swing."

    Just like "warm" guitar tones.
    … and ‘chocolatey’ distortion (oops wrong forum; besides: I swear it’s in a published book).

    If we wanted to rehash the old thing, we could ask: 'tell us what you mean by “that cat swings”: does he make you dance, do you mean he’s got a nice swing style……’.

    I would myself be unable to answer since I am struggling with getting a good swing feel in my lines instead of BA-DA BA-DA BA-DA… mostly because I haven’t yet figured out exactly what it is I am looking for… oh well. But Remo swings! He makes me tap my foot and smile (yep, that’s what I’m at more or less).

    As Barney does, and Charlie, and …

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by radiofm74 View Post
    … and ‘chocolatey’ distortion (oops wrong forum; besides: I swear it’s in a published book).

    If we wanted to rehash the old thing, we could ask: 'tell us what you mean by “that cat swings”: does he make you dance, do you mean he’s got a nice swing style……’.

    I would myself be unable to answer since I am struggling with getting a good swing feel in my lines instead of BA-DA BA-DA BA-DA… mostly because I haven’t yet figured out exactly what it is I am looking for… oh well. But Remo swings! He makes me tap my foot and smile (yep, that’s what I’m at more or less).

    As Barney does, and Charlie, and …

    It's kind of the difference between "This guy's music swings." and "This guy swings."

    The former, I'm expecting to hear music that literally swings. The latter, I'm expecting to hear a guy play really well.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  49. #48

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    Wow..Teddy Bunn really had a Groove !

    The ' Missing Link ' between Robert Johnson and very early Jazz Guitar ? Kinda ?

    Seems unusually Polished and Slick for wayyy back then ...

    Never heard the Guy before.

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa View Post
    Wow..Teddy Bunn really had a Groove !

    The ' Missing Link ' between Robert Johnson and very early Jazz Guitar ? Kinda ?

    Seems unusually Polished and Slick for wayyy back then ...

    Never heard the Guy before.
    Sure, Bunn was very blues oriented and a single note player which was not so common back then. If you want to trace that link back, you get to Lonnie Johnson:



    Polished and slick? The 1930s/early 40s were all about polished and slick...





    And there was this fellow called Django, right?

    The 1930s were the golden age for jazz guitar. The bop era did a lot to REMOVE the guitar from the music, until the jazz fusion era.

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    There has to be more to this than a rod for mouldy old figs to beat modernists with. Modern cats don't swing. Etc.

    On the other hand, I get a bit bored of the defensive backlash - 'well x could swing if they wanted to' - to which I always, think, well who cares? I mean you have to judge a musician by what they are actually doing.

    I don't care if Wayne Krantz can play bebop for instance. Why would I care about that?

    Does Krantz's music swing? No? Has he got amazing time and a fantastic sense of groove? Yes.

    Anyway I'm loathe to get into the sort of thing where I say 'x doesn't swing as much as y yadda yadda.' Swing is a difficult word to define. For example player z might play with a swing feel and play swing music, but might not actually swing all that hard. And so on. The difficulty in unpicking this type of thing on the internet appears to lead to heated flame wars lol.

    But progress in music is not like progress in science or sports - one thing is emphasised and something else is discarded.

    For instance at some point it became fashionable to play mostly 8th notes in jazz lines, so we lost some of that push and pull you get from triplet embellishments, but other things become possible - perhaps it's easier to use odd groupings against the beat for instance. When we went over to bop, we lost the basic dance beat that made swing accessible. When a modern drummer metrically modulates with a soloist's cross rhythm it dissipates the tension of traditional swing polymeter, but opens up new possibilities for improvisors.

    And so on.
    You've got three choices in jazz:
    1) You play in the Swing Era style of swinging-Eddie lang, Django, Freddie Green,Charlie Christian
    2) You swing in the Bop, Cool and Hard Bop style of swinging- Tal Farlow, Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Raney, Johnny Smith Kenny Burrell, Joe Pass, Jim Hall, Bruce Forman and Peter Bernstein
    3) You swing(groove) in the Fusion and Post-Jim Hall Stylists- John McLaughlin, Larry Coryell
    Pat Metheny, John Abercrombie, John Scofield, Mick Goodrick, Bill Frisell, Mike Stern, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Ben Monder, and Pat Martino.

    This list was taken for the Essential Listening section of Scott Reeves, "Creative Jazz Improvisation".

    When someone says some major player doesn't swing, it probably means the musician they're talking about doesn't swing in the style of one of the three styles of playing mentioned above.

    An example- one older guitarist I know was given a CD of a younger, talented player.
    I asked him how it was.
    He said, " It doesn't swing", and flung it in my direction saying, "I don't want it, you can have it".