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  1. #51

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    Pass definitely swings.


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    According to the RIAA, JM plays on 3 of the top 20 selling jazz albums in history. More than Metheny or Wes, or any other guitarist. He played something somebody liked.

  4. #53

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    Of course he did. That's not at issue. I'm sure so did Kenny G.


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  5. #54

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    Discussion of Metheny's time feel must remain taboo for the sake of internet harmony. Also after all the verbiage expressed both ways I feel I am now a prejudiced judge.

    I do think PM is more swing oriented in his time feel than JM.

    That brings me to something I've been thinking about a lot - the difference between a true double time and merely playing 16th notes.

  6. #55

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    Btw I don't think anyone here is saying JM or anyone else is a bad player or even trying to set up the boundaries of the genre. That's a dead ended perspective anyway I suppose.

    What can we learn from listening to music in detail beyond 'I like it' or 'I don't get it'?

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    That brings me to something I've been thinking about a lot - the difference between a true double time and merely playing 16th notes.

    In my mind, more or less a student still in the protracted woodshed stage, I try to be able to do some elemental, seemingly simple things well, as opposed to dabbling in a million things, not of which I can pull off on the fly, as needed. That's the goal.

    One of the elemental things is:

    to seamlessly play quarter notes, 8th notes, 8th note triplets and double time in an integrated way such that any on of those can interchangeably follow another other one? (including rests and displacements).

    Really basic shit. Forget about note choices, scales, modes, harmony, esoteric ways of thinking about harmony.

    Just Play quarter notes. Play 8th notes. Play 8th note triplets, quarter note triplets, half note triplets. Play double time. Why make it more complicated than it is? the real bread and butter of this music is rhythm, anyway.

    That is to say, double time only makes sense if you can integrate it with 8th note playing.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Discussion of Metheny's time feel must remain taboo for the sake of internet harmony. Also after all the verbiage expressed both ways I feel I am now a prejudiced judge.

    I do think PM is more swing oriented in his time feel than JM.

    That brings me to something I've been thinking about a lot - the difference between a true double time and merely playing 16th notes.
    No taboos for me here. Well, ok, fine!

    But if Metheny doesnt have a proper swing, where's leave us with all these post Metheny hordes of guitar players, you know, with that dreamy clean tone, prog rock influenced college boys? I shudder to think!

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    True. No argument there. But we're talking about swing which is a very specific thing.


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    A lot of great musicians who know jazz time rather well from Roy Haynes to Jack Dejohnette to Dave Liebman to Bob Moses to Antonio Sanchez to Dave Holland etc think Pat Metheny swings his ass off.

    I like his swing way more than that of Joe Pass even though I like Joe of course. Pat's time is one of my favorite things about his playing in fact.

    You are acting like there is some criterion to which you somehow alone have direct access and the rest of us don't but that's just not the case.

    And a lot of of the talk about McLaughlin in here is silly. The man is a monster and has his own take on things. Miles doesn't usually write tunes in honor of players who aren't super bad ass.

  10. #59

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    Wait. I WAY prefer the way Pat plays AND the way he swings more than Pass. I'm not a Pass fan. I'm talking about a very specific thing. Pass plays in a traditional swing manner. PM does not. I'm NOT saying which one is better

    Geez!


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  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    Of course he did. That's not at issue. I'm sure so did Kenny G.


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    Rather silly reply. What's worth noting in John McLaughlin's associations is that hordes of bad ass musicians who play jazz rave about him.

    That includes very heavy players like Chick Corea, Pat Metheny, Dave Holland (who was profoundly impacted by John's time concepts), Mike Brecker, Wayne Shorter, Joe Zawinul, Miles (who named a song for him), Tony Williams, Dennis Chambers, Vinnie Colaiuta and on and on.

    You don't impress those people without having impeccable time which you shouldn't confuse as being somehow your personal version of swing and that personal version being the only acceptable time feel.

    John has monster ears and is a real musician who has something to say. He isn't playing dress up like so many others.

    Wilkins himself is leaving out part of the story because he himself did a McLaughlin-esque album some years back which as I mentioned earlier, did not exactly set the world on fire.

  12. #61

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    OMG. You seem to want to equate a value judgement, like Wilkins or myself are saying JM does not have impeccable time. He does. You have have impeccable time and not swing. JM doesn't swing. Can he? Perhaps. He's a fusion player. It's not part of his thing. Maybe he swings his ass off.

    A lot of guitar players don't phrase where the beat's are clearly articulated, like say the way Cannonball or Oscar Peterson do. Where each note has character - long, short, pushed, back, choked. The quarter notes are accented. Guitar players don't generally articulate like that. Certainly JM doesn't. It's not how he defines his rhythmic cells. And that's ok. He still has remarkable time.

    You seem to want it all black or all white. I don't see things like that.


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  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    Wait. I WAY prefer the way Pat plays AND the way he swings more than Pass. I'm not a Pass fan. I'm talking about a very specific thing. Pass plays in a traditional swing manner. PM does not. I'm NOT saying which one is better

    Geez!


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    Welcome to my world haha.

  14. #63

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    Purely personal opinion but, I'm going to go out on a limb here.

    When I think of Pat Metheny, the word swing is not the first word that comes to mind.

    It's more likely to be Orchestrion.

  15. #64

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    I believe that there was a particular type of music that was termed "Swing."

    Swing music - Wikipedia

    Maybe see how your heroes fall in?

  16. #65

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    How do you define swing? Playing dotted or inflected eighth notes? Or playing in the groove with the bass and drums no matter what genre your playing in? I prefer the latter definition. More freedom less constriction.


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  17. #66

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    Define swing? It's a style, more than merely a technical definition. It's a way of playing that varies from person to person. If you play the 8ths as triplets or dotted 8ths, or closer. Billy Higgins places his 8ths very close so they almost are straight, but yet he still swings like hell.

    It's not just a groove. It's not hip-hop, or New Jack Swing. I play that stuff. Just had a rehearsal last week with a fusion funk band that was great. But I'm talking jazz and the music that grew from jazz. Has long legs into jazz. To me, if you can't play that you got some homework to do. That's what I had to do when I found I didn't play bop in a legitimate way. This was about 15 years ago. I've been analyzing it and working on it ever since.

    Examples of swing from not guitar players.

    Oscar Peterson swings like nobody's business. Each note has it's value. Each quarter is pushed in ways that most guitar players just don't do, or don't hear.


    Yusef Lateef. One of my favorites.


    Cannonball with Sarah Vaughn. Interesting take. Sassy sings so slow and behind. The horns have great articulations. The read with dynamics. Most guitarists don't. Cannonball's solo swings, like he does. The beats are articulated.


    These are examples of playing swing. It's bop. Not SWING music, but jazz played swinging. I'm sorry, but I don't hear a lot of guitar players who articulate that this. It's hard. Playing the quarter notes long, or accented and with intention, which might mean you have to vary your picking patterns from alternate or economy to more musical phrases.

    I think this is more along the lines of what Jack Wilkins was referring to. Maybe not. But it's what I am referring to. If you just play fast like a buzz saw, you can have fantastic time but you're not really articulating or phrasing lines that have a swinging rhythmic propulsion.

  18. #67

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    The swingingest guitarist I've ever heard, IMO, was Charlie Byrd. Everything he played, swung.

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by trap
    How do you define swing? Playing dotted or inflected eighth notes? Or playing in the groove with the bass and drums no matter what genre your playing in? I prefer the latter definition. More freedom less constriction.


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    Perhaps we should avoid this word 'swing' as it's used in a number of different contexts:

    1) historical style of music (as in - I play in a swing band.)
    2) specific reference to the inequality of the 8th note (as in - can you make it more swung?)
    3) a feeling generated by the musician playing rhythm in a certain way (as in - that cat swings!)

    So, players can be 3) but not 1) or 2). It's hard to pin down.

    As I mentioned to me swing formally has to do with the polymeter in jazz - 6/8 against 4/4, those West African on European inflections. That doesn't mean that players dot their 8ths - it's something more subtle than that. But many educators and musicians have flagged this up.

    It's something I hear a tremendous amount in Wes, and not much in John MacLaughlin. That's not a value judgement, any more than stating that Charlie Christian never uses the altered scale is a value judgement. It's merely a technical observation.

    BUT! Swing is not just one thing either. Samba music has a concept of swing, but it's obviously not the jazz concept at all!

    Regarding jazz swing and jazz time/feel generally, here's an interview that's been posted a few times which I think is great:
    Interview with Charles McPherson | DO THE M@TH

    I also enjoyed this interview:
    Interview with Billy Hart | DO THE M@TH

    Whatever you call anything, it's about honing one's perceptions of time and understanding rhythm stylistically and culturally as well mathematically. Drummers know this stuff for instance, guitarists - less so. Hang out with drummers! (Didn't Pat say something like that himself?)
    Last edited by christianm77; 05-12-2017 at 06:31 AM.

  20. #69
    Kinda funny that "swing" has become the most contentious word on the JAZZ forum in recent weeks. :-)

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    Kinda funny that "swing" has become the most contentious word on the JAZZ forum in recent weeks. :-)
    True. Usually "jazz" holds the title for the most contentious word on the Jazz forum.

  22. #71

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    Yeah people seem to be really hung up about these terms.

    To me, jazz and swing have an identifiable core - and most people would agree that (sorry to keep using the same example) - Wes is a jazz guitarist, and he swings. No-one I think would disagree with that.

    Finding the edge of what jazz and swing is much more contentious, and this is where disagreements occur.

    But as a student of the music, my interest is largely concerned with the centre of this music, even if my own music might not necessarily be jazz to some people. I'm interested in knowing more about Wes was doing, for instance, and what Wes was doing was about a certain style of rhythm. I may as well attach the label 'old school hard swing' to that.

    It's the study of archetypes - very useful in music training. If you study counterpoint, you go to Palestrina and Bach (or at least abstracted examples) - you don't go to Brahms, even though he was a master contrapuntalist. And so on.

    Not to say that PMG, Mahavishnu, whatever, is worthy of study in it's own right of course. But I would see those as different archetypes.
    Last edited by christianm77; 05-12-2017 at 09:18 AM.

  23. #72

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    Quick question:

    Can a soloist swing while the band plays straight?

  24. #73

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    So from what I've gathered, swing or playing with a swing feel has more inflected or accented notes. More dynamic picking.
    I've heard Jack Wilkins play live and I guess he does that, but he also has those flurries of very fast passages like McLaughlin.
    Overall I love Jacks playing.
    Metheny also accents a bit.


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  25. #74

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    Hm. Yes, of course PM plays accents and JW plays flurries of notes. It seems like you're thinking in categories of flurries and accents. That's not it at all. It's about where those accents are and how they're placed, with what energy- pushed, pulled. Flurries: what notes, where, when accented?

    It's too general and vague to speak in such broad terms. Becomes almost useless.

    That's what I showed examples. It's hard to generalize about music verbally. Music isn't verbal. It's music.


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  26. #75

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    Not wishing to sway anyone's opinion on JM's sense of swing but I thought it might be instructive to hear him in a pre-Extrapolation context. McLaughlin had a working band with saxophonist Tony Roberts and bassist Danny Thompson (ex-Pentangle) in the mid '60s that played lots of standards and bop classics along with more free improvisation. Here's a sample (most of the YouTube clips featuring the band have disappeared):


  27. #76

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    This is way too heady for my taste. I'm bowing out. I'll just go play now.


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  28. #77

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    I've always put JM in the positive "out there' category, where he has company from ie. Allan Holdsworth. There's this kind of on the edge feel (melodically and rhythmically) in his playing all the time (especially live when improvising). Whatever cosmic feel or pulse it is, he hears it and is aiming for it. It may not always open up for me but the fact that he's going for it without any preconceptions makes it great.

  29. #78

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    I actually feel Allan Holdsworth phrasing can be rather boppy in the rare occasions when he played with a jazz rhythm section playing swing time. Here's an example, take the phrase at 2:20 and there are several phrases after that are very boppy in articulation alongside those pure legato swirls and floating phrases...



    I think his phrasing is rather subtle in general. But his whole technique is based on freakishly accurate subdivision. And he always phrased a lot in quarter triplets generally giving in his playing. I don't hear that in JM much.

    I'm not sure I would ever describe Allan as 'heavy old school swing' but in these cases, I can really feel the influence of jazz sax players and the guitarists like Jimmy Raney who sought to emulate them. To me Allan is a natural evolution of what Charlie Christian, Wes and Jimmy Raney were doing.

    (I wish he'd done more stuff with acoustic rhythm section, but hey. Like Mike Stern, Allan has the problem of being judged for his guitar tone by the Jazz Police.)
    Last edited by christianm77; 05-13-2017 at 05:52 AM.

  30. #79

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    Here is Johnny Mac playing in a straightahead swing time environment.

    I actually think his playing sounds great here, I really like it - but there is no question that his rhythmic approach is very different to Allan's, and also to a conventional rhythmic jazz approach. But very distinctive.

    He can play his straight 16th notes against Elvin's mighty polymetric tinged flow and it's all good.


  31. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan
    Quick question:

    Can a soloist swing while the band plays straight?
    Hmmm. I've heard it said that Joe Henderson often played swing on straight 8s IIRC. I'll try and track down an example.

    While this is basically a straight 8s groove I feel a lot of 6/8 and swing time inflection in Jamerson's bassline.



    I feel like straight 8s/swung 8s isn't a clear cut thing in US Music.

  32. #81

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    I like this record, sounded better than some of his other straight ahead recordings. I remember listening to him play oleo once and it was pretty bad, but this one I liked

  33. #82

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    man he can burn

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB
    Not wishing to sway anyone's opinion on JM's sense of swing but I thought it might be instructive to hear him in a pre-Extrapolation context. McLaughlin had a working band with saxophonist Tony Roberts and bassist Danny Thompson (ex-Pentangle) in the mid '60s that played lots of standards and bop classics along with more free improvisation. Here's a sample (most of the YouTube clips featuring the band have disappeared):

    Thanks for posting, that IS interesting.

    JM is certainly swinging his upbeat chord stabs when comping - very Red Garland.

    Soloing wise - well this a bit of a contrast to his later style. I would describe his phrasing as behind the beat but pretty straight - anyone disagree? The upbeat placement is not straight here to my ears, so swinging in the sense of catching a swung upbeat. (Just being super empirical here, IMO JM does indeed swing on this cut.)

    So he had gone through the bop thing before moving into fusion. I hadn't realised that because it wasn't manifest in any of the recordings I had listened to.

    I have it on good authority that JM was known as a feel guy in the 60s before he developed his alternate picking chops.
    Last edited by christianm77; 05-13-2017 at 06:27 AM.

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    ...So he had gone through the bop thing before moving into fusion. I hadn't realised that because it wasn't manifest in any of the recordings I had listened to...
    You might want to check out the English R & B sensation known as Graham Bond. JM played with him on several recordings. I only have "Solid Bond" but I think that there are others. JM isn't a one trick pony. He probably could have stunted himself on any style (like Clapton sort of did with the blues), but I think that Miles Davis encouraged him to get out on his own and put himself into it. He was intelligent enough to take the advice.

  36. #85

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    Hi all, interesting thread, I have the same feeling about JML, great player for sure but certainly not one known for his "swing" feel.

    In a great jazz school in France (CMDL), teachers talked about this modern swing feel, and what they said is exactly what this guy discusses in the following video. I wasn't sure at first, but I've seen the results with a friend of mine who worked on this since several months : it just changes everything ! In a jam session with several guitarists who played good, he just stood out from the crowd, and note because of the notes he played but because of his time feel. It's kind of "laid back". It took him some time but he was dedicated to do so, and it worked !



    Have a great swingin' day (pun intended) guys !

  37. #86

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    Lots of subjective stuff about 'swing' and I am absolutely no expert on anything 'Jazz'..

    But I do use now the 'type' of 'swing' used by people like Benson and Norman Brown ( more forward in the Beat compared to many Jazzers ) ( which you would or could actually see in a DAW where they show the
    Tracks in squiggly lines plotted against the bar lines- lol).

    As far as I know there is NO PRECISE WAY to notate 'swing' on a Score- it IS subjective.

    But Sequencers have 'swing' programs or Templates for hi hat Patterns etc. and they DO have a 'range' of 'swing' and it 'works' to a large extent..go too
    far forward or too far backward in Time and even to a layman - it will lose 'Sync'.
    A good time sensitive Musician will Instinctively Add to the Rhythm with accents pushing or lagging etc.
    But those are secondary to being in the accepted 'swing' value.

    Say - Quarter Note Triplets ( easier to identify quantify) - IF you are Playing them you can Rush very slightly and Pop ( Accent ) the second 'Group' of 3 and it will sound really cool and Funky and Rhythmic but that is a Stylistic Thing and you have to be able to PLAY quarter note triplets before you can Stylize them..
    I hear Swing that way..probably being 'outside ' Jazz and not having heard 100 different Jazz Guitarists gives me a layman's perspective and a broader overview...

    That's definitely not how or why I adopted it- it's because it fits rhythmically over R&B or Rhythmic Modern Music with no adjustment..and allows me to groove better with Tracks and feels good.

    IF you try that with 'some' of the more 'relaxed' or
    'lazier' ' swing' Styles- it will fall behind the Beat and not 'Sync'.

    Ideally a Jazz or even any Guitarist would adjust slightly to the Song or Rhythm Track for Time Feel with a few defaults when they ' freewheel' in their own 'Style'.

    I was always a tight Rhythm Player able to slightly push or relax against the Beat or play almost 'quantized' grabbing the chords ( not strumming) but
    it is leaking ( the tighter timing and varied Rhythmic Figures ) into my Solos now
    because of adopting 'swing'and the Jazz influence, and because of a fret hand change just a few years back I can now keep up with the Picking I developed long ago when Dinosaurs roamed the Earth...

    But People who say you will sound good no matter what if you have good 'time' are obviously
    exagerrating...to play ANY type of Music - you have to land on Accepted Notes for THAT Style .. Jazz and it's Cousin R&B allow more chromatic Notes than Country for example...but you obviously need the acceptable notes at the ends of your lines ....

    Generally it's easier for Players ( and Dancers ) who
    Naturally feel the 1 and other secondary Beats who can have lower 'lag time' to 'relax ' in the Rhythm than it is for laid back Rhythmatists to move 'forward' in the Beat.

    Visualize a Dance Audition and it's R&B- some Dancers really land their foot on the 1 and on secondary beats..some Dancers who are ' following'
    the Beat rather than really 'feel' it are always a little late and don't' Sync Up' to the rest of the Dancers.


    So some of it is Subjective but IF you can be Michael Jackson on the Guitar or Benson who both have ( had) very very low' lag time ' you can go more places Rhythmically ..guessing that Jackson could do Fred Astaire FAR more easily than Astaire could do Michael Jackson...


    It is quite amazing that Benson being an - 'old school'
    Era Player has a feel that transfers directly onto most Modern Pop/ R&B as well as Motown Era /Hip Hop / Electronica...

    If Norman Brown was here ( a great bad ass Guitarist despite the 'Smooth Jazz' label)- I think he would agree.

    I also wonder - if McLaughlin really wanted to and immersed himself in a Project with a Rhythm Section and Drummer etc. in a Style requiring aggressive 'swing' - he could and would- the Long Video on Fluency he did actually has a relaxed ( not too relaxed )
    swing to it which leads me to think he could IF he wants to.
    If I was the Producer I would 'trick' JM into it by asking him to phrase like Brecker rather than name a Guitar Player...

    Imagine me asking JM in an Interview- ' John I play guitar also and have about 80% of your chops...about 3 to 5% of your Knowledge and about
    .0003% of your Musical Accomplishments - how come you don't Play more like me ? "

    I bet he would pause then get a big laugh out of that one...because he's heard it in other forms before many Times...
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 05-19-2017 at 08:59 PM.

  38. #87

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    @RobertKoa - Benson AFAIK spent some time being mentored by Jo Jones the drummer with Basie orchestra back in the 30s, so there is a deep link back into that era, which was ALL about playing for dancers.

    Really the values of that music is not so different to the R&B, Soul and Pop Benson ended up performing.

    If I had to call it, I would say the modern use of rhythm in jazz is more intellectual, less physical. It's more like 'hey what can I do with this cool rhythmic idea' and 'how can I play really evenly and accurately' than 'how much am I and the audience feeling this?' or 'how can I get this rhythm of this phrase to POP?'

    And I feel that latter thing was even present in the jazz/rock movement which gets much maligned by the old guard. Those guys were playing Cuban music, funk, bebop, rock, all sorts of stuff and it ended up amalgamated. To me guys like Mike Brecker were absolutely coming from that physical realm in terms of time even if their music wasn't swing 8's all the time.

    Brecker even said he had trouble synch'ing up with a metronome. Sure, typical humility from him, but it's interesting to contrast this attitude to players who have banked more time with a click than with great drummers. The click has become the final arbiter of time to many.

    You know I know this Robert Glasper interview got some controversy for some of the alleged sexism of his comments but that's a damn shame because he is talking about exactly this type of thing:

    Interview with Robert Glasper | DO THE M@TH

    So as a result while you can say there is such a thing as a modern swing feel, and it can indeed swing, it's a lot more cerebral and cool, and the nature of jazz performance - seated, focussed listening and an audience mostly consisting of musicians, music students and hardcore afficionados is the reason. Kurt for example, is really cool, but does he make me want to move? No.

    I mean he does swing, in so much as he catches the swing up beat and phrases in a swing jazz way, and plays a lot of music with a swing feel. But it's.... cool... his music isn't 'hot' in that way - I mean it can be really exciting - I've heard him live - but it's a different feeling, more to do with building tension rather than grooving if that makes any sense. I love his playing anyway, so I don't want to come across as criticising him. I'm just trying to say it's a different flavour.

    And plus, I feel I understand how Kurt got where he is even if I can't exactly follow. Benson on the other hand - no way.

    I'm willing to bet Kurt practiced a lot with a metronome and *fixed* his time, synch'ing up his 8th notes etc, much as most of us on the forum do....

    On the other hand I can't imagine Benson was ever out of time, because I suspect his musical process is profoundly different. It's actually laughable to imagine Benson ever playing a weak rhythm.
    Last edited by christianm77; 05-19-2017 at 11:37 AM.

  39. #88

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    I have always greatly enjoyed the music...or is it music(s)...of John McLaughlin. I guess I first became aware of him on Bitches Brew, then a few years later I saw Mahavishnu Orchestra.

    I do agree that JM swings differently than, say, a guitarist like Joe Pass. Although Johnny Mac is definitely a bebop-based guitarist, he does not swing the way a bebopper like Joe Pass does. If Pass soloed on one note, it would swing very hard. It was just his habit. JM, by comparison, would definitely tend to displace the accents while making the metrical rhythm work out. 4/4 would still be 4/4, but the swing would be different, for sure.

    The word "lilt" was used above. I have always found McLaughlin, Metheny, and even Scofield to be more lilting players than Pass, Kessel, or Farlow--who were more "bam, bam, bam" swingers. They tended to emphasize the 1 & 3 much more strongly than the "lilting" guys, who just float along, even when they are close to shredding.

    It might be a generational thing.

  40. #89

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    I think Raney had a lilt no? Actually Raney has to me a very modern feel i guess

  41. #90

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    +1 I think Raney is sort of transitional. A long line, bebop guy with a lighter touch. He flows and flows.

    I find Raney compelling and listenable--not that the others I mentioned aren't. They are some of my favorites.

  42. #91

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    TBH, as much as I love the immediate post Christian generation players, it did take a while for the guitar to develop a true bebop feel. Raney, Hall, Wes, Burrell... Slurring and playing a bit softer perhaps.

    But CC was a different feel - very guitar. No bad thing. Barney was the closest to him in the early years IMO. Herb too. It's a different thing. I love those guys. Not what I want to emulate though, despite my idolisation of Charlie.

  43. #92

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    My playlist is on complete shuffle 24/7, so it is always hard for me to have complete recall. IMHO JM swings on this.

  44. #93

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    Hi there fellas, I have to confess that I did not listen to John much in the past 20 years, a bit more when I was younger but right now he hit me hard with some of those performances I found on youtube so I would like to open this thread to share exercises, chords, scales, permutations, repertory, anything you guys know or have, please, about John´s style.
    I have watched his instructional video about modal permutations, sounds a bit like Hanon but with modes and interesting pattern displacements, but when he plays, specially with the bigbox, DeFrancesco... he sounds more swingy and bebopy to me.

    Cheers guys!

  45. #94

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    Well he played a lot of post-bop in the 90s, which was great. His playing really matured and evolved through the 90s and continues... Of course, he doesn't play bop like Joe Pass or Wes, but neither does George Benson for that matter.

    He plays his own way. I think his improv course is the best way to understand his approach. I'm not certain if the DVD technology still works with MS Windows though.

  46. #95

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    Some useful resources here:

    johnmclaughlintranscribed - transcriptions