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  1. #1

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    Hey dudes,

    I was under the impression that Raney played mostly on a 175, but i've seen him play this on his masterclass videos on youtube, and on this little clip, what do you guys think it is, I have no clue.




    Merry Christmas!
    Oz

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  3. #2

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    Pretty sure that I heard, maybe even read it here somewhere, that he played a Hofner later in his career. (Maybe in the thread about his son.)

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz View Post
    Hey dudes,

    I was under the impression that Raney played mostly on a 175, but i've seen him play this on his masterclass videos on youtube, and on this little clip, what do you guys think it is, I have no clue.




    Merry Christmas!
    Oz
    It's an Attila Zoller model built by Hofner. The earlier ones (such as Raney's) had Zoller's name on the headstock.

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  5. #4

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    When I saw Raney play back in the 80s, I asked him what happened to the Gibson, and he said it was stolen out of the trunk of his guitar when he lived in Jamaica, Queens.
    That was a long time ago, because he left NY back in the 60s.

    I met Peter Leitch once, and he said he had the same AZ model.

    PL said there were only three AZ model guitars made.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by David B View Post
    It's an Attila Zoller model built by Hofner. The earlier ones (such as Raney's) had Zoller's name on the headstock.

    thanks a lot man!

  7. #6
    That really sucks to hear that. Thanks for that story!

    Oz

  8. #7

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    jimmy's #1 guitar in his early years, until it was left behind/stolen in a cab, was a (noncutaway) gibson es 125

    Jimmy Raney's Guitar-complete-recordings-1954-1956-jpg

    cheers

  9. #8

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    Some good footage here of Jimmy playing his 175 in 1980 with Attila Zoller:


  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic View Post
    jimmy's #1 guitar in his early years, until it was left behind/stolen in a cab, was a (noncutaway) gibson es 125

    Jimmy Raney's Guitar-complete-recordings-1954-1956-jpg

    cheers
    Very cool to see a very young Phil Woods on the cover of that Raney LP. Two of the greatest Bird-influenced jazz musicians that ever lived; Raney and Woods. They misspelled Hall Overton's first name.
    Yeah, I knew it wasn't a 175, so that's why I just said Gibson in my post.
    I think I asked Jimmy why he wasn't playing his Charlie Christian Model Gibson when I saw him, and that was the one that he said was stolen from his trunk in Jamaica.
    Speaking of leaving instruments behind in cabs, trains, buses etc... the accordionist Mat Matthews had a reputation for leaving a slew of amplifiers on subways when he lived in NYC!
    This thread made me look at the covers of all the Raney LPs I bought, and he was playing a few different guitars on some of the LPs in the 70s.
    I couldn't tell what guitars they were.

  11. #10

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    Weird Gibson with 3 pickups and an unsightly mess of tape on the 'Solo' album cover:

    Jimmy Raney's Guitar-img_0088-jpg
    Last edited by grahambop; 12-25-2016 at 07:39 AM.

  12. #11
    You guys are great.

    Thanks for the replies.

    Raney's playing is great, his articulation second to none in my opinion, sounds so fluid. That's one of the hardest things I'm facing right now is being able to sound fluid on guitar, it's so hard! More Transcribing is in order me thinks..

    Merry Xmas!
    Oz

  13. #12

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    Hi Don,

    You may enjoy this recording I have of a private lesson with Jimmy Raney. It came to me via a friend a couple of years ago. I don't know the student or when it was recorded but probably the '80s, as Raney talks the student through one of the solos from his Aebersold book.
    Dropbox - Jimmy_Raney_Lesson.mp3


    Happy Christmas to my fellow Raney fans!

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  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_oz View Post


    The full episode of that show is available as a modestly-priced rental from the original host/producer on Vimeo: Watch The Guitar Show Series Online | Vimeo On Demand on Vimeo

    London Jazz Guitar Society:
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    LJGS on Twitter: www.twitter.com/LDNJazzGuitar

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by David B View Post
    Hi Don,

    You may enjoy this recording I have of a private lesson with Jimmy Raney. It came to me via a friend a couple of years ago. I don't know the student or when it was recorded but probably the '80s, as Raney talks the student through one of the solos from his Aebersold book.
    Dropbox - Jimmy_Raney_Lesson.mp3


    Happy Christmas to my fellow Raney fans!
    Why, thank you good sir. Very kind of you!

    Cheers,
    Oz

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by David B View Post
    Hi Don,

    You may enjoy this recording I have of a private lesson with Jimmy Raney.

    hey thanks for that drop db..very interesting listen...great to hear the master raney expounding

    cheers

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic View Post
    jimmy's #1 guitar in his early years, until it was left behind/stolen in a cab, was a (noncutaway) gibson es 125

    Jimmy Raney's Guitar-complete-recordings-1954-1956-jpg

    cheers
    That's a 150, actually, like Charlie Christian's.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
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    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    That's a 150, actually, like Charlie Christian's.
    right!! (brain freeze)... thanks

    still with it in '64

    Jimmy Raney's Guitar-db56f43e34b7b11f06e0c6737c5c0b8f-jpg

    cheers

  19. #18

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    Apart from Jimmy's guitar, Pat Metheny has one that was owned by Attila Zoller, Peter Leitch has one that Jimmy used to borrow when he was in New York to save carting his up to the city, and the head of Attila's jazz school has the fourth. Very rare.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by David B View Post
    Hi Don,

    You may enjoy this recording I have of a private lesson with Jimmy Raney. It came to me via a friend a couple of years ago. I don't know the student or when it was recorded but probably the '80s, as Raney talks the student through one of the solos from his Aebersold book.
    Dropbox - Jimmy_Raney_Lesson.mp3


    Happy Christmas to my fellow Raney fans!
    I'm a huge fan of Jimmy's and would love to hear this. The link doesn't seem to be working anymore. Is there a way someone could repost it? I would appreciate it very much!!

  21. #20

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    Hi Brian,
    I'll keep this link up for a couple of days.
    Dropbox - Jimmy Raney lesson.mp3 - Simplify your life

    London Jazz Guitar Society:
    www.meetup.com/londonjazzguitarsociety
    LJGS on Twitter: www.twitter.com/LDNJazzGuitar

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by David B View Post
    I'll keep this link up for a couple of days.
    Dropbox - Jimmy Raney lesson.mp3 - Simplify your life
    i got it the first time...it's a great lesson!

    thanks again david B

    cheers

  23. #22

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    Wow, I felt like Raney was talking to me directly.

    I recorded some lessons from great teachers over the years, but I won't put it up on the internet because that wouldn't be cool with them--you know?

    That said, Raney's explanation of flat footed vs. square on vocabulary was JUST what I needed to hear right now in my own development.

    5 beat cells, I'm gonna try that right now! What a brilliant mind Jimmy Raney was...

    Thanks David B!

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    I recorded some lessons from great teachers over the years, but I won't put it up on the internet because that wouldn't be cool with them--you know?
    I quite agree. This Raney lesson however has been in circulation amongst jazz guitar fans for years - that's how it came to me.

    London Jazz Guitar Society:
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  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Wow, I felt like Raney was talking to me directly.

    I recorded some lessons from great teachers over the years, but I won't put it up on the internet because that wouldn't be cool with them--you know?

    That said, Raney's explanation of flat footed vs. square on vocabulary was JUST what I needed to hear right now in my own development.

    5 beat cells, I'm gonna try that right now! What a brilliant mind Jimmy Raney was...

    Thanks David B!
    The Aebersold solos book which Jimmy Raney did has lots of great examples of these approaches, e.g. playing across barlines, anticipating or delaying changes, irregular note groupings, etc.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    The Aebersold solos book which Jimmy Raney did has lots of great examples of these approaches, e.g. playing across barlines, anticipating or delaying changes, irregular note groupings, etc.
    Best study I ever did was learning a bunch of those solos. It is taking a very long time for the ideas in the solos to get into my playing, because they are meaty, grown-up, real bebop ideas. But playing those solos puts you in touch with a brilliant bop player and some of his most classic lines.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  27. #26

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    Okay, lawson-stone, you convinced me. I got all the Jimmy Raney play alongs in one set (duets, standards, solos).

    I listened to the whole lesson David B posted again. There's a part where Jimmy talks about what seems to be metric modulation. He mentions 3/8 over 4 or 5 over 4. Besides what Mike Longo talks about in his conversations with Dizzy Gillespie, I didn't know that metric modulation made it's way into bebop circles that much. I hear it a lot in "cool" and hardbop as well as "post bop"

  28. #27

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    Irez87,
    Have only managed to hear the first 20 minutes of the Raney lesson, but I don't think what he does amounts to metric modulation. He is still playing straight 8ths, but talks about extending the lines beyond the single bar and avoiding accenting heavy downbeats all the time. In other words, it's a question of phrasing/grouping his eighth notes and accenting notes so that they are displaced in relation to the downbeats. E.g. by repeating a motif consisting of three eighth notes, so the repeat starts on the 2-and (if the beginning starts on the 1) (in this example he plays a line of 3+3+2 notes to complete a bar of 4 beats). But in the end, he's still playing eighth notes (rather than, say, quintuplets or something that is not a subdivision of the quarter notes). Perhaps it makes more sense to see these ideas as examples of forward motion rather than metric modulation...

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Okay, lawson-stone, you convinced me. I got all the Jimmy Raney play alongs in one set (duets, standards, solos).

    I listened to the whole lesson David B posted again. There's a part where Jimmy talks about what seems to be metric modulation. He mentions 3/8 over 4 or 5 over 4. Besides what Mike Longo talks about in his conversations with Dizzy Gillespie, I didn't know that metric modulation made it's way into bebop circles that much. I hear it a lot in "cool" and hardbop as well as "post bop"
    I recommend starting with the solos set and take on "Like Somebody" (based on "Like Someone In Love"). It's the slowest of the solos, which allows a focus on phrasing and articulation, how the time works, etc. It also has a lot of Raney's signature phrases and devices. For me also, the slower tempo was all I could handle. He can really blister, and some of these solos are quite fast.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nils View Post
    Irez87,
    Have only managed to hear the first 20 minutes of the Raney lesson, but I don't think what he does amounts to metric modulation. He is still playing straight 8ths, but talks about extending the lines beyond the single bar and avoiding accenting heavy downbeats all the time. In other words, it's a question of phrasing/grouping his eighth notes and accenting notes so that they are displaced in relation to the downbeats. E.g. by repeating a motif consisting of three eighth notes, so the repeat starts on the 2-and (if the beginning starts on the 1) (in this example he plays a line of 3+3+2 notes to complete a bar of 4 beats). But in the end, he's still playing eighth notes (rather than, say, quintuplets or something that is not a subdivision of the quarter notes). Perhaps it makes more sense to see these ideas as examples of forward motion rather than metric modulation...
    Yes that is how I recall the ‘lesson’ (I have heard it before), this is also what I meant by the irregular note groupings in his Aebersold solos book.