Miles Davis

[wolflen]

so parker was playing and some noticed it was different and some noticed it was breaking molds and definitions and he had players in his band that could play this new sound..and it was noticed..hey this miles kid..he played with bird...and it was noticed..and miles became a "practitioner " of that style..and now players played WITH him..
now..it turned into "cool" now it became an attitude a lifestyle..everyone was cool now..an extra chord on a standard or a blues..and it grew..hey..HE played with MILES..
and diatonic harmony backing the entire songbook became a boring solo..1959-Kind of Blue did something..it changed direction of harmony in jazz..the mandatory ii-V was gone..and not missed a bit..miles was changing the map..the same year Coltrane took some of the lush Flamenco Sketches chords into Giant Steps and pushed the bar a lot higher...the 1960's was in the air..the water and food..in the clothing..and every style..in the language..the visual arts and the back drop to all this was the music..the early 60's folk music was now becoming electric and became full blown electric when Hendrix said "..ahhh foxy.." 1969 Davis brings an English guitarist-john McLaughlin and a young drummer Tony Williams to be influential in the near future of an energetic musical expression that some called jazz rock some called it fusion..the following year..Bitches Brew removed all doubt..Miles not only changed the map again..he erased it...

many well known musicians can say they played with Miles...he did not have anything to do with their talent or how they expressed it..but made it possible for others to hear what these extremely talented musicians created..and I am blessed to be alive during this time to hear them play..

say what you will..there would be something missing if Miles was not part of our shared musical experience..

years ago a friend called me.."hey..i have four tix to a miles davis concert..want them??" its possible he didn't like "jazz" or didn't know who Miles was-really..but that night is still in my mind and fully formed...yes I would love to be able to "lead" a band with john scofield in it..

miles may have been a bitch of a person to some..and some don't give him half the credit he deserves for his place in music..but like it or not..he was at critical points of change in music..as it became the backdrop and forefront of change in our lives

[cosmic gumbo]

Miles certainly had his terrible character deficits, yet to hear his well respected sidemen discuss their professional, musical, and personal relationship with him, none would decribe it as being less than life changing in a positive way....

Zawinul, Corea, Holland, DeJohnette, Hancock, Shorter, Williams, Scofield, Garrett, Jarrett, Stern, Carter, Liebman, McLaughlin..and on and on....what school of jazz ever produced more offshoot groups and bandleaders than Miles?....Blakey?...Duke?

When jazz went electric, the scene was dominated for years by Weather Report, Return to Forever, Mahavishnu Orchestra....all direct lineage from Miles....

[christianm77]

Faulkner:

'The writer's only responsibility is to his art. He will be completely ruthless if he is a good one. He has a dream. It anguishes him so much he must get rid of it. He has no peace until then. Everything goes by the board: honor, pride, decency, security, happiness, all, to get the book written. If a writer has to rob his mother, he will not hesitate; the "Ode on a Grecian Urn" is worth any number of old ladies.'

Not sure if that applies to Miles, but I always enjoy that quote.

Not sure if I agree though ;-)

[destinytot]

miles may have been a bitch of a person to some.

More power to him, I say - and a toast (from TV's Frasier): "To impossible standards!"

While I find exquisite beauty in his '50s music, I find painful truth in most of his musings on wider issues. I'd rather Miles had remained aloof; his status as icon said it all.

And that's why I'll be first in line to see the new movie when it's released over here, which interests me because - and in spite of - any liberties or license in the storytelling.

Moreover, in the extraordinary context of his extraordinary professional life, the movie's scenes of 'gun battles' sound appropriate to me - not as realism (who needs that?) but as a relevant symbol.

[grahambop]

Miles basically checked out of real life, and became a recluse for 4 or 5 yrs. Put down his horn throughout. Holed up in his brownstone and was finally coaxed out of it much later.

I agree, in the abstract, not all great artists are nice people, and maybe they don't need to be. But the fact that he did this suggests something not quite right.

According to Wikipedia, he had a few problems in this period:

Davis was troubled by osteoarthritis (which led to a hip replacement operation in 1976, the first of several), sickle-cell anemia, depression, bursitis, ulcers, and a renewed dependence on alcohol and drugs (primarily cocaine), and his performances were routinely panned by critics throughout late 1974 and early 1975.

[Doctor Jeff]

Re' Miles' health issues I am highly skeptical he had sickle cell DISEASE, as this would always be manifested by appearance in childhood. It would have been extremely unusual for someone with SCD to have lived beyond 40 at the time when Miles was a young adult.

As a hospital orderly in the late 70's I saw a 40-something man who had had a phallectomy, i.e., penis amputation, because of constant erections (priapism). No laughing matter for him. He was uncommunicative because of strokes. That was what happened to sicklers in the days before appropriate care.

It is more likely he had sickle cell trait or perhaps sickle-thalassemia, another genetic anemia which survived in human history because it conferred upon the sufferer an innate resistance to malaria, which was ubiquitous in tropical areas including the US until the 1900's.

From the NEJM:

The life expectancy of patients with sickle cell disease has improved considerably since 1960, when Sir John Dacie described sickle cell disease as “essentially a disease of childhood.” “Indeed,” he wrote, “the mortality is high and relatively few patients reach adult life, even when the standard of medical care is high". In his 1973 review based on autopsies, Diggs estimated a median survival of 14.3 years, with 20 percent of the deaths occurring in the first 2 years of life, one third occurring before the fifth year of life, half between 5 and 30 years of age, and one sixth after the age of 30. In contrast, in the recent Cooperative Study of Sickle Cell Disease (CSSCD), approximately 85 percent of children and adolescents with sickle cell anemia (homozygous for sickle hemoglobin) and 95 percent of patients with sickle cell-hemoglobin C disease (heterozygous for hemoglobin S and C) survived to 20 years of age.

[Cunamara]

Miles didn't kill jazz and he didn't save it. He occupies a unique niche in the music that is impossible to quantify. He came to New York at the right time to meet Bird and Diz and those cats and to participate in bebop, even though he was not himself really a bebop trumpeter. He put together two of the greatest quintets jazz has ever seen. He practically invented whole subgenres of jazz. There's never been another cat like Miles in this music, but he was one of a handful of titans in jazz who shaped the trajectory of the music.

[John A.]

Sometimes I think people get a little too caught up in the character Miles made up for himself in his autobiography and let it color their thoughts on him as a musician. He goes on at great length about how brilliant and terrible he was and how inferior everybody else was, but most of the alumni of his bands have only good things to say about him (including quite a few he said uncomplimentary things about). This makes me think to a large extent he was playing up the worst elements of his dark persona for effect, and the people who knew him were in on the joke. Even Cicely Tyson has good things to say about him.

Musically, he had a unique voice on his instrument, a compulsion to keep growing and changing, and a genius for bringing out innovation in others. It's hard to imagine more than that in an artist. Maybe others could play more notes more cleanly. If so, uh, So What? Would Kind of Blue have been a better record with a different trumpeter? Please ... IMO, he played the notes that he wanted to play exactly how he wanted to play them. I know plenty of trumpet players who scoff at the idea that he was a lesser player than Diz or Brown. Different, yes; lesser, no. Just like most of us would laugh out loud at the idea that Jim Hall was a lesser player than George Benson.

John

[gggomez]

What kills jazz?
Hmm anyone that can't celebrate one of the greatest artists of realistically the history of man can't be helping.

Killed it?
He was one of the greatest catalysts for the music to go forward by continually evolving and recruiting the young guns and promoting them to be themselves.

How many jazz artists (or any artist) reach a level of success and just keep regurgitating the same stuff for the next 40 years. Good on them not for us to criticize. The risks Miles took to evolve commands respect if you like it or not.

.. anyway what a stupid word "killed" jazz. Jazz today is awesome! Maybe too many old farts with chips on their shoulders is the problem, same in rock circles, meanwhile the young guys are culturally very different and sharing fantastic music.

[John A.]

And of course, let's not forget that no one killed jazz because, as Frank Zappa said, jazz is not dead, it just smells funny.

John

[Doctor Jeff]

Sometimes I think people get a little too caught up in the character Miles made up for himself in his autobiography and let it color their thoughts on him as a musician. He goes on at great length about how brilliant and terrible he was and how inferior everybody else was, but most of the alumni of his bands have only good things to say about him (including quite a few he said uncomplimentary things about).

I think that's true. I have heard very few of his successful alumni badmouth him; most of them say that playing with Miles gave them the inspiration and motivation to achieve what they did.

However, we can still pass judgment on bad behavior. If someone's a genius and 90% a great guy, don't ignore the 10%.

Musically, he had a unique voice on his instrument, a compulsion to keep growing and changing, and a genius for bringing out innovation in others. It's hard to imagine more than that in an artist. Maybe others could play more notes more cleanly. If so, uh, So What? Would Kind of Blue have been a better record with a different trumpeter? Please ... IMO, he played the notes that he wanted to play exactly how he wanted to play them. I know plenty of trumpet players who scoff at the idea that he was a lesser player than Diz or Brown. Different, yes; lesser, no. Just like most of us would laugh out loud at the idea that Jim Hall was a lesser player than George Benson.

I think that's about right. I was listening to My Funny Valentine yesterday, possibly one of his best records in terms of tone and technique, at least live. He said what he wanted to say and did it as well as anyone could have. There were faster and flashier players--that was part of the bebop era, and one reason I think Miles wasn't at heart a bebop player.

BTW, I have seen trailers for the new Miles biopic--looking forward to it with mixed feelings. For one thing, Don Cheatle looks born to play the part. I am always happy to see attention given to true cultural icons, instead of silly pop stars. I just hope the sex and drugs and violence doesn't overshadow the talent part on the screen. We'll see.

[John A.]

I think that's true. I have heard very few of his successful alumni badmouth him; most of them say that playing with Miles gave them the inspiration and motivation to achieve what they did.

However, we can still pass judgment on bad behavior. If someone's a genius and 90% a great guy, don't ignore the 10%.

If the worst of the stories (general thuggishness, beating up women, pimping his girlfriends) are true, then sure, judge away, while reveling the epic sweep of this life. But I just wonder how much of that stuff from the son of a dentist is hyperbole. Not a lot of people as bad-ass as he paints himself to have live as long as he did.

I think that's about right. I was listening to My Funny Valentine yesterday, possibly one of his best records in terms of tone and technique, at least live. He said what he wanted to say and did it as well as anyone could have. There were faster and flashier players--that was part of the bebop era, and one reason I think Miles wasn't at heart a bebop player.

I think "at heart" is the gist of it. He was pulled in a different direction, so he developed the technique that served that direction.

BTW, I have seen trailers for the new Miles biopic--looking forward to it with mixed feelings. For one thing, Don Chea[t]dle looks born to play the part. I am always happy to see attention given to true cultural icons, instead of silly pop stars. I just hope the sex and drugs and violence doesn't overshadow the talent part on the screen. We'll see.

There are very, very few good biopics about artists/musicians. I happen to have loved Eastwood's Bird movie. Some call it sensational or that it's too much Chan Parker's view of what he was. But I disagree and think it's beautifully realized. I hope that Miles movie will approach that. Anyway, I doubt the movie could emphasize the sex/drugs/violence more than Miles did himself :-)

John

[Doctor Jeff]

I liked the Bird movie too. That and Mo' Better Blues are 2 of my favorite movies about jazz musicians. Also Whiplash.

[pingu]

re Miles actual playing
he made some of the most beautiful sounds ever heard IMO
there's power in what you play ...
and
there's power in what you don't play ...

[sunnysideup]

Everyone wants a piece of Miles these days. In the good old days they didn't.

[princeplanet]

Blah, blah blah... Everyone thinks they're a Miles expert. What's the truth? The real truth? Nobody (including Miles) ever knew then, so we won't find it in this thread, that's for sure. So we find our own "truth" in Miles' remarkable story.

Here's mine-

#1. Miles was provocative. We know the type, we went to school with them, and grew up with them, probably still tolerate them in our workplaces or families. Sometimes provocateurs get famous, with or without talent (Kanye or Trump without, Dali or Ali with).

#2. Listening without bias - as we all should - when I hear recordings of Miles, every damn time he puts the trumpet to his lips, at almost any period in his career, whether I like the band, the compositions or the album cover or not..... I hear the truth.

[Endorphins]

Blah, blah blah... Everyone thinks they're a Miles expert. What's the truth? The real truth? Nobody (including Miles) ever knew then, so we won't find it in this thread, that's for sure. So we find our own "truth" in Miles' remarkable story.

Here's mine-

#1. Miles was provocative. We know the type, we went to school with them, and grew up with them, probably still tolerate them in our workplaces or families. Sometimes provocateurs get famous, with or without talent (Kanye or Trump without, Dali or Ali with).

#2. Listening without bias - as we all should - when I hear recordings of Miles, every damn time he puts the trumpet to his lips, at almost any period in his career, whether I like the band, the compositions or the album cover or not..... I hear the truth.

The truth is the music. Just listen to the music.

[Boston Joe]

I kind of see Miles as being to jazz what Bowie is to rock. Neither Bowie nor Miles were true innovators, in the sense that there's not a lot of new stuff that they did first. What they did do was spot trends very early, and popularize them. Tony Williams was on the fusion thing before Miles, but Miles had enough sense to pay attention, and when he put the weight of his celebrity behind it, it made a bigger impact that it would have if he hadn't.

But I think his real genius was in recognizing greatness in people, and seeing ways that different people would work well together.

As far as words like "jazz" "bebop" "fusion" and the like... whatever. Just words, man.

[Stevebol]

Miles's 70's music will keep jazz stuck in the 70's forever.

[rictroll]

I kind of see Miles as being to jazz what Bowie is to rock. Neither Bowie nor Miles were true innovators, in the sense that there's not a lot of new stuff that they did first. What they did do was spot trends very early, and popularize them. Tony Williams was on the fusion thing before Miles, but Miles had enough sense to pay attention, and when he put the weight of his celebrity behind it, it made a bigger impact that it would have if he hadn't.

But I think his real genius was in recognizing greatness in people, and seeing ways that different people would work well together.

As far as words like "jazz" "bebop" "fusion" and the like... whatever. Just words, man.

I agree to an extent. Bowie and Davis both had a gift for 'strategic partnering'.

But the changes in jazz have as much to do with players having unique voices as being innovators. Jazz usually appropriates and utilizes material developed elsewhere anyway. In terms of jazz, fusion is a process more than a genre!

[AlsoRan]

Yeah, exactly, really Christian.

I've never been of the school of thought that I needed to like the human being making the music.

One of my absolute favorite musicians of all time is CHet Baker, for example. Not a role model, y'know?

So true - but it is so nice when you find out the artist whose music you like (or maybe even met), had a heart as big as his/her music, and transcended all the pain and woes of this world.

When you see them smile, it warms your soul and you smile with them because they are a kindred spirit.

The same is true of sports heroes, and any other "heroes" who might catch our fancy.

[robertoart]

There is some very candid and fun reading about Miles from Dave Liebman. I read it online a few years ago, and it might be part of a book or just some general reminiscences. But it goes into detail on both a personal level as well as a musical one. One thing I remember, is Liebman describing when he was playing with Elvin Jones in a club and Miles was scouting for a new tenor player and was scoping out Liebman. Elvin Jones sees Miles in the club....and I will leave his response for those that read the Liebman anecdote...