The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Great stuff. Thanks. I was surprised to discover when reading a bio of Kessel that his comping for Julie London (-just her voice and his guitar) had a big influence on Brazilian musicians. Supposedly, when they met, Jobim thanked Kessel for all he learned from him!


    just a note, not exactly a duo lp.
    there were a pair of Julie London lps w/guitar accompaniment.
    first w/Kessel and Ray Leatherwwod on bass, the second w/Howard Roberts and Red Mitchell on bass.

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Much as I appreciate Oscar, I think the answer to your question is that, for starters, Herb Ellis and Barney Kessel cited Charlie as the biggest influence on their playing. Charlie had more of a featured spot in the Benny Goodman Sextet than Oscar did in the Nat Cole trio. (Curiously, though, both Ellis and Kessel played in Oscar Peterson's drummerless trio).
    Wasn't it Kessell who said that Oscar Moore litterally created the way to piay guitar in a trio or small combo?



    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    Tal farlow, Jimmy Raney, Wes, Kessel and Ellis all cited CC as their first, strongest influence.

    They all then moved in Charlie Parker's direction, but swing players like Remo Palmieri and Chris Flory seemed to stay with CC.
    When I listen to Chris Flory, I think of him more as a "follower" of Al Casey than of CC.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Lang
    Wasn't it Kessell who said that Oscar Moore litterally created the way to piay guitar in a trio or small combo?





    When I listen to Chris Flory, I think of him more as a "follower" of Al Casey than of CC.
    I kept my eye on this thread as a big CC fan, but I also love to discover new names. I've heard of Al Casey from Fats Waller recordings, and loved his raw sound. Now, I never heard of Chris Flory, but I checked his videos, wow, what a great style! I wonder why he doesn't have more recognition, or is it just me? Players like that always give me an inspiration, a jazz with a healthy does of blues and R&B. Not everybody came to jazz because of Coltrane. I will look for his gigs for sure, since he's in NYC.

  5. #29

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    "I've heard of Al Casey from Fats Waller recordings"

    don't forget his Prestige recording Buck Jumpin'
    great blues/swing lp

  6. #30

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    Chris Flory recorded a lot for Concord records back in the 90s with people like Scott Hamilton and Rosemary Clooney.
    I saw a video of him playing, and he used all down strokes, and didn't use his pinky at all.
    He plays a lot of those accented, swing quarter notes that CC used.
    I did a gig with a drummer who used to play with him a lot. He said CF has a day gig working at a hospital in NY.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Lang
    Wasn't it Kessell who said that Oscar Moore litterally created the way to piay guitar in a trio or small combo?
    I've read that too.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    Chris Flory recorded a lot for Concord records back in the 90s with people like Scott Hamilton and Rosemary Clooney.
    I saw a video of him playing, and he used all down strokes, and didn't use his pinky at all.
    He plays a lot of those accented, swing quarter notes that CC used.
    I did a gig with a drummer who used to play with him a lot. He said CF has a day gig working at a hospital in NY.
    Back in about 1981 or 1982 I saw him with Benny Goodman.

  9. #33

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    ok an odd addition, i just happened to stumble across..not as a later sound disciple, but cc certainly involved in his genesis-

    alan holdsworth!

    from-Interview with Allan Holdsworth

    Were you listening to any guitarists at that time? (ie teenage holdsworth)

    AH: Of course when I listened to Benny Goodman, I was exposed to his guitarist, Charlie Christian. I also loved Django Reinhardt, but there was something about the electric guitar that I was drawn to. So I tried to learn Charlie Christian solos. I absorbed them quite quickly. Then I would play two of his solos and then play one of my own. I couldn't really create, and realized this was not a good process for me. I needed a different direction. I soon purchased some records by John Coltrane and this changed my whole life.


    (amen)

    cheers

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    ok an odd addition, i just happened to stumble across..not as a later sound disciple, but cc certainly involved in his genesis-

    alan holdsworth!

    from-Interview with Allan Holdsworth

    Were you listening to any guitarists at that time? (ie teenage holdsworth)

    AH: Of course when I listened to Benny Goodman, I was exposed to his guitarist, Charlie Christian. I also loved Django Reinhardt, but there was something about the electric guitar that I was drawn to. So I tried to learn Charlie Christian solos. I absorbed them quite quickly. Then I would play two of his solos and then play one of my own. I couldn't really create, and realized this was not a good process for me. I needed a different direction. I soon purchased some records by John Coltrane and this changed my whole life.


    (amen)

    cheers
    Interesting! I had Metal Fatigue album by him, and I really liked it!

    Also this interview reminded me a John McLaughlin interview somewhere, he said when he heard Coltrane it changed his life. What do they hear that I don't? LOL. I love a few tunes by Coltrane, but largely I'm very much content with CC as far as the guitar playing goes. The only sax player who I would say changed my life is Art Pepper.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Interesting! I had Metal Fatigue album by him, and I really liked it!

    Also this interview reminded me a John McLaughlin interview somewhere, he said when he heard Coltrane it changed his life. What do they hear that I don't? LOL. I love a few tunes by Coltrane, but largely I'm very much content with CC as far as the guitar playing goes. The only sax player who I would say changed my life is Art Pepper.

    i dig art pepper too!!! but even he went from alto to tenor upon hearing coltrane!..he was floored..

    here's art p-

    from National Jazz Archive

    Fortunately, I was able to hold my own. Until I heard John Coltrane, and then I fell by the wayside for a little while. But fortunately again, I'm back to myself again. I didn't feel it was a hang-up to be in the Coltrane bag, other people thought it was. They changed; see, when it was Charlie Parker, then it would be okay to play like Parker, but Coltrane, it wouldn't be okay to play like him, I don't know why. They must have had some reason.
    But I thought it just helped my growth as a musician, going through the Coltrane thing. If I had stayed playing like him, then it would have been bad. It was just like you go to school, and take a certain course for a year or a couple of years.
    Your technique, your facility becomes that much greater. It helps your approach, you can do so many more things and incorporate them into the way you feel about music, your own feelings about your style. In the long run, it gave me a different dimension, and it just broadened the whole thing.
    The way so many musicians slavishly imitated Coltrane - that's the way it was with Charlie Parker, only even more so, if that can be imagined. Everyone that I knew changed totally.


    ps- listen to some earlier holdsworth when his tone was cleaner and a bit more fluid…tony williams, soft machine, gong etc..he was a mindblower…nothing to do with cc tho! hah…except maybe pure burnin'

    cheers

  12. #36

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    Jimmy Rivers was a western swing/bop guitarist who had already incorporated a lot of Barney Kessel's style when he was introduced to Charlie Christian who also became a real influence.

    There's a fine CD of Rivers and steel guitarist Terry Vance Brisbane Bop. It's from audience tapes, so the sound quality is not quite the tops, but very listenable.

    Jimmy Wyble, who played with both Bob Wills and Benny Goodman, was deeply influenced by Christian. Allmusic's bio of Wyble has a fascinating story recounting that Goodman, no lover of country music, "almost swallowed his glasses the first time he heard a recording of Wyble, Hill, and pedal steel virtuoso Noel Boggs playing a solo by Goodman's most famous guitarist, the great Charlie Christian, in unison."

    Wyble later played in Tony Rizzi's five guitar group that played arrangements of Christian's solos.

    Benny Garcia was another western swing/jazz guitarist influenced by Charlie Christian and like Wyble played with both Bob Wills and Benny Goodman.

    There were probably other country guitarists influenced or inspired by Christian, and the electric mandolin of Johnny Gimble and Tiny Moore should also be mentioned. The popularity of the Goodman band may have had something to do with it. Pee Wee King recorded "Seven Come Eleven" after WWII and I have a 1973 LP from the River Road Boys "The Twin Fiddles of Bob White and Clyde Brewer Seven Come Eleven." Interestingly they attribute SCE to "traditional.

    CC also had a big influence on blues guitarists. B.B. King always mentioned him as one of his main inspirations.

  13. #37

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    absolutely!!! the western swing crowd were literally from the same territory as charlie…more into him than anybody!..and his success, inspirational! grapes of wrath era "okies"!!! (bless'em)..i'd add wybles replacement in wills band, the great junior barnard…and his fellow playboy (also from oklahoma) eldon shamblin...

    the great jimmy bryant too

    and even the west coast blues guys.. early bay area blues pioneer saunders king-

    from http://asobrecht.com/saunders-king-c...ectric-guitar/

    Was Charlie Christian the first guy who could hold his own alongside great horn players?
    He was the first one. As a matter of fact, I was working at Jack’s Tavern in San Francisco, and Charlie came in. He was here with Benny Goodman’s band, playing with Lionel in the Sextet, and he came in and everybody asked him to play one. We were off the stand when Charlie came in. I said, “Well, what do you want to play, Charlie?” He said, “‘Stardust,’ man,” and that was it. He played by himself – I’ll never forget it – on my guitar, which had a very bad pickup. He was different. He was taking a solo by himself, and he made such changes – crazy changes. In these kinds of clubs I was working, we sort of played it straight, but he made all those sounds and different changes. He was great. Charlie Christian didn’t fool around.
    Did you get a chance to talk to him?
    Yeah. He was a great guy. At that time, quite a bit of drinking was going on, and he had been to different clubs. Club Alabam was around the corner, Al Black’s supper club was happening too. So naturally he went with the fellas – wherever they’d go, he would go. Ben Webster was there. Ben Webster kept playing all night long. That’s the first time I heard Charlie Christian in person, and he really could play. I was surprised. I’d heard his records – loved his records with the Sextet. But to see him play, see his action, was different. There was no one who could play like him.
    What stood out?
    He played rhythm, and then he’d go from rhythm into the solo, and he played by himself. That was different. It made all the difference in the world. The audience in Jack’s Tavern was rather small, and all the big band guys who came through there came by Jack’s and played afterwards – like a jam session – and it was great. More bands came to town then than they do now, from what I hear.

    cheers

    ps- great jimmie rivers!! 23 club where he recorded brisbane bop. still there!! jim campilongo his main disciple

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    i dig art pepper too!!! but even he went from alto to tenor upon hearing coltrane!..he was floored..

    here's art p-

    from National Jazz Archive

    Fortunately, I was able to hold my own. Until I heard John Coltrane, and then I fell by the wayside for a little while. But fortunately again, I'm back to myself again. I didn't feel it was a hang-up to be in the Coltrane bag, other people thought it was. They changed; see, when it was Charlie Parker, then it would be okay to play like Parker, but Coltrane, it wouldn't be okay to play like him, I don't know why. They must have had some reason.
    But I thought it just helped my growth as a musician, going through the Coltrane thing. If I had stayed playing like him, then it would have been bad. It was just like you go to school, and take a certain course for a year or a couple of years.
    Your technique, your facility becomes that much greater. It helps your approach, you can do so many more things and incorporate them into the way you feel about music, your own feelings about your style. In the long run, it gave me a different dimension, and it just broadened the whole thing.
    The way so many musicians slavishly imitated Coltrane - that's the way it was with Charlie Parker, only even more so, if that can be imagined. Everyone that I knew changed totally.


    ps- listen to some earlier holdsworth when his tone was cleaner and a bit more fluid…tony williams, soft machine, gong etc..he was a mindblower…nothing to do with cc tho! hah…except maybe pure burnin'

    cheers
    Yeah man, I red that Art Pepper's book, I remember the quote! Actually, when I was in college, I listened to everything my teachers or peers would tell me to. And of course Coltrane was held in the highest regard by everyone, and I listened to more than a few albums at the time, and was kinda floored too. I enjoyed the intensity of the music, and even transcribed a few licks... but I have to be honest with myself- it never inspired me to follow him, and I know I don't have that much talent to even try. CC on the other hand, speaks to my heart!

    Other CC influenced (not just jazz) players come to mind, : Cliff Gallup (rockabilly), early BB King, Bill Jennings...

  15. #39

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    yes my friend, essential to always follow your own course, but keep it aimed toward the brightest direction!

    cliff gallup! was a light..jennings…bravo

    listen to anything that resonates with you and try to figure out why

    cheers

  16. #40

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    Big Charlie fan here. Listening to his solos in Gone With What Wind and of course Boy Meets Goy (grand slam) one can easily hear that his influence went way beyond jazz - he actually sounds like the foundation sound for pre Beatles rock and roll - chuck berry, buddy holly etc. just my opinion on this from listening, I have not researched this. Would be curious if others know.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    I kept my eye on this thread as a big CC fan, but I also love to discover new names. I've heard of Al Casey from Fats Waller recordings, and loved his raw sound. Now, I never heard of Chris Flory, but I checked his videos, wow, what a great style! I wonder why he doesn't have more recognition, or is it just me? Players like that always give me an inspiration, a jazz with a healthy does of blues and R&B. Not everybody came to jazz because of Coltrane. I will look for his gigs for sure, since he's in NYC.
    yes chris flory is great

  18. #42

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    Getting back to the C. Christian/O. Moore question, I just wanted to offer this.

    Charlie's intro on "Gilly" aka. "Gone With What Draft ?"


    And then quoted (around 0:44s) in Nat Cole Trio's "Rhythm Sam", I thought it telling that the lick was followed by the lines,
    "....he's the best man in the band, they know that he's the best....musician in the land...." A nice tribute.

  19. #43

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    Benny Garcia was another western swing/jazz guitarist influenced by Charlie Christian and like Wyble played with both Bob Wills and Benny Goodman
    I knew Benny. Well, River's, Vance, and Wyble too, though I never met JW just conversations on the phone.
    Benny told me Eldon Shamblin was already playing guitar around OKC at the same time or before CC. We talked about it more in depth but I can't recall. I remember him telling me CC stories. Somewhere I have recordings of us talking. Its cassette tape I'm sure and I'd have to hunt around for it.
    I don't think he was a really big influence on Jimmie Rivers. I spent a lot of time with him. I know he dug Oscar Aleman and Jimmy Bryant too, until he met him. I might have some tape of him. I'm sure we talked about CC. Same with J Wyble. I doubt I recorded him since it was on the phone 20 years ago or more.
    I spent 3 hours with Eldon doing an interview and I know I have all that on tape. Probably in the same box with the rest of it all.
    It's kinda hard to not ask those guys about CC, Django etc. A lot of what they were doing made it's way onto the Western Swing Bandstands.

  20. #44

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    great post !!! transfer those cassettes!!

    Jimmie Rivers. I spent a lot of time with him. I know he dug Oscar Aleman and Jimmy Bryant too

    perfect!!….how could anyone not dig oscar? hah



    cheers



  21. #45

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    In Lionel Hampton's auto biography he tells about CC first arriving in LA.
    "Charlie walked in and he was a sight to see. He had on a 10 gallon hat, pointy toed yellow shoes, a bright green suit, a purple shirt and a string bow tie. Benny (Goodman) took one look at him and left"
    I have arrived!

  22. #46
    Strangely enough, if Charlie Byrd hadn't discovered the classical guitar, then he might have been closest of any guitarist to Charlie Christian as this solitary electric guitar outing from 1957 proves.


  23. #47

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    Interviews with Doug Raney (Jimmy's son), Jim Hall, Tal Farlow and B.B. King


  24. #48

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    Heavily influenced by CC?

    ME!