George Benson & Carlos Santana

**Vladan** · 06-25-2014, 11:14 AM

... on ths particullar recording, could find the groove to save his life, and I do not mean GB.

It is anonimous and you are allowed to vote both Yes and No

**jdazey** · 06-25-2014, 11:34 AM

GB looks hopeful some of the time, but no. Carlos is in another time and another place.

Joe

**fep** · 06-25-2014, 11:54 AM

Note to RichB, Carlos doesn't sound like a Benson clone yet he uses the Benson picking technique.

**docbop** · 06-25-2014, 12:18 PM

Carlos in that video reminds me of the Legends tour Clapton did with Steve Gadd, David Sanborn, Joe Sample and Marcus Miller. Carlos and Clapton both trying to brute force their licks over tunes with changes.

**coolvinny** · 06-25-2014, 01:01 PM

Maybe I have tin ears or no sense of groove myself, but I thought it sounded fine at least up to the 3:00 minute mark I listened to. Not my favorite playing but nothing about Santana's playing seemed patently "wrong" to me.

**edh** · 06-25-2014, 01:03 PM

I saw a video w/Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn, BB King and some others. They were all taking solos. When it came BB's solo...man he could not find the groove to save himself. I can't remember the tune but it was a semi fast blues. BB couldn't get the groove. I think BB is used to playing a slow blues.

**jazzbow** · 06-25-2014, 01:06 PM

Ha ha, Vladan, good fun. Trading licks at the end kinda almost.......nah!

In kind of the same vein, check this video out. I laughed so much I had a coughing fit and Mrs Jazzbow thought I was having a heart attack.

**Patrick2** · 06-25-2014, 02:14 PM

Here are a couple of things that I hope don't get overlooked in that video . . and I have seen the video before and had the exact same thoughts then as I do now. Firstly was George Benson's extremely kind, respectful and complimentary introduction of Santana. Next, George recognizes that Carlos is out of his element even with those 4 basic chord changes . . so too does Carlos. Everyone with any degree of understand of music and guitar playing realizes that Carlos is wonderful at what he does . . but, he's also limited to . . . what he does. We've all seen GB do that tune many many times. It's very obvious that GB was holding back considerably . . (at least up until the 6 minute mark, almost at the end when George started really playing . . just look at the look in his eyes when he went off on a series of runs there) . . and that he did so out of respect and a professional courtesy to Carlos.

George Benson is an artist, a gentleman and a human being that most others should strive to emulate.

**MarkRhodes** · 06-25-2014, 02:48 PM

I can't watch it through.

**GuyBoden** · 06-25-2014, 03:20 PM

I-VI-II-V in D Major is not really Carlo's thing, but he gets the "A mixolydian" riff/melody.

**Vladan** · 06-25-2014, 03:23 PM

@jazzbow the mist hilarious ishread clip I saw was Kenny G and M. Bolton, can not post a link now, but you can do the search. I laughed for days, and my Mrs. was at awe just like yours.

@coolviny Carlos is too much on the forward side, maybe if he played alone, with his real tone, to make it Santana thing, but in thi line up, no way, for me.

**JensL** · 06-25-2014, 05:28 PM

What a horrible song.. I did not make it to the solos, sorry..

Jens

**pubylakeg** · 06-25-2014, 06:24 PM

Jazzbow vid, Hilarious, Thanks.

BTW. Painted f holes on Benson's Ibanez.

**jazzbow** · 06-25-2014, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by pubylakeg

Jazzbow vid, Hilarious, Thanks.

If you think that's funny watch the link on youtube, check out massbetelnuts other videos, Kiss by Prince is hysterical and the One Direction video is kinda surreal. Recommended

**Patrick2** · 06-25-2014, 08:46 PM

Pubylaked> The F holes are not painted onto the top. They're covered with scotch tape to help avoid feed back.

I'm quite surpried by some of the unkind reactions and comments to Santana's playing. Aren't these the very same type of mean spirited comments many here have denounced when players of a lesser talent and skill set step onto the stage with pros above their levels and abilities? Isn't this the very behavior people have said they are fearful of which keeps them from sitting in at jazz jam sessions? Carlos will "sit in" with anyone at any level. How many of us can say that of ourselves? Look into Carlos' history of CDs and live performances. There's no one he will refuse to appear with . . even recognizing that they are sometimes of a different genre and more often than not of a greater ability. He makes no bones about it either. He has no insecurities. He's an artist and a guitar player. I'm not sure any of us have the right to scorn his performance at all . . let alone next to a guy like George Benson.

This was, IMO an unkind thread started with an unkind intention of ridiculing a super star artist. The accompanying commentary of . . . "couldn't find a groove to save his life" . . was very distasteful. I wonder if the OP making that comment would care to step onto a stage with Carlos Santana in a live venue with hundreds of people in the audience. I wonder if the OP would have ever even dared to step onto that stage with George Benson, as Carlos did. If so, unlike some of the mean spirited comments made on this post . . GB would have more than likely been very kind an understanding. I seriously doubt GB would have commented to the OP . . . "man, you couldn't find a groove to save your life". Or, "I just can't listen to what your playing all the way to the end". I just don't see or hear GB ever saying saying something like that to anyone. I just don't see that it would ever happen.

Apologies to all, including the OP for the rant. But, this really rubbed me the wrong way. I hope I never have to read another post like this on the jazz guitar forum. I'd really like to believe we're all above such mean spiritedness.

**Vladan** · 06-25-2014, 09:07 PM

All I can say, I was not bad spirited. Just the oposite. I posed the question in ,what I consider to be, humorous manner. You don't think it's funyy? Well, so sorry. I don't think Santana will give a damn about ieither of us.

**mr. beaumont** · 06-25-2014, 09:21 PM

Honestly, Carlos couldn't find the groove cuz it's a lame ass groove anyway...that early 70's Santana stuff had some REAL groove.

I never liked Breezin...and I like that album, and GB from that era...but everything else on that record (and Weekend in LA, another one I love) is soooo much more interesting than Breezin.'

Jmho, ymmv, all the usual disclaimers....

**Patrick2** · 06-25-2014, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Vladan

All I can say, I was not bad spirited. Just the oposite. I posed the question in ,what I consider to be, humorous manner. You don't think it's funyy? Well, so sorry. I don't think Santana will give a damn about ieither of us.

Based upon virtually every one of your other posts that I have ever read, I find you to be a pretty good guy. That's why I was surprised to see this from you. Also, I fail to see the humor in posting an artist's performance specifically to point out, criticize and speak disparagingly of it. I'm not going to argue this matter further with you Vladan.

**jasaco** · 06-25-2014, 10:50 PM

FWIW, my reaction was same as Patrick's... unnecessary disparagement of another artist.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 06-26-2014, 01:18 AM

I'm sticking my neck out here, but I'm digging the matching suits.

**Vladan** · 06-26-2014, 02:47 AM

There were no bad itentions in my question. If I posed it straight, "what do you think abot CS playing on this clip" , would it make any difference? Ok, no more humor from my side. Serious only, all the way. As one respected member of the forum once said, Jazz guitar is serious business.