The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I couldn't find a thread dedicated to Kurt Rosenwinkel and his playing.

    For anybody who doesn't know, you can download 2 of his sets from The Village Vanguard for free on NPR's website.. In my opinion this guy has turned jazz on its head.


    Kurt Rosenwinkel: Live At The Village Vanguard : NPR Music


    The second set is awesome, check it out!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Cool stuff!
    This will expand my horizons once more.

    Thanx for sharing!

  4. #3

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    his new untitled tune, the second one of the second set, is amazing. im trying to transcribe a chart for it.

  5. #4
    I'm currently transcribing his 5 minute solo on turns. I'm two choruses in.. probably the hardest changes I have ever come across.

  6. #5

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    I just saw him yesterday in Chicago with his quartet, it was pretty amazing. He played some standards and originals and then for the last tune he played Zhivago, but did it like way faster than the album and then double timed it! His solo was a cool mix of Coltrane, Slash and Holdsworth, very cool.

    If you like Kurt I highly recommend checking him out live. I've seen his over 10 times and he's always way better in person than on CD, if you can believe that!

    MW

  7. #6
    ah that must have been quite the experience! I would love to see him live. he's really taking the whole sheets of sound approach to the next level..

  8. #7

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    aw, man, i was there too. i should have probably been able to recognize ya! would have come over and introduced myself...

    i had never been a big fan of kurt's writing, but his playing is top notch...but after seeing some of his own tunes live, i think i "get" them a little better...

  9. #8

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    Listening to gilad hekselmann with ari hoenig and on his own records i have become rather fascinated with his chord work. i was wondering if you had done any listening to him and if you had any ideas about the sorts of inversions he is using to achieve the kind of voice leading he demonstrates.

  10. #9

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    Believe it or not Kurt normally uses only three types of voicings in his comping/chord soloing. He tends to use 3rd and 7th voicings ala Lenny Breau and Ed Bickert, then he uses tons of 4th voicings that come from McCoy Tyner and Herbie Hancock as well as Jim Hall, the last voicing he likes to use is non-root triads, so triads starting on the 3rd, 5th, 7th etc of the chord.

    What makes him sound so unique with these simple voicings are the subs he uses and how he mixes them all together.

    MW

  11. #10

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    do you have an example or two of the subs he likes to use off the top of your head?

  12. #11

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    Sure, Kurt likes to divide the octave into 4 equal parts and then use any/all of those chords when soloing.

    If he has a Cmaj7 chord for example, in his head he sees Cmaj7+Ebmaj7+Gbmaj7+Amaj7, so a Cdim7 chord harmonized with maj7 chords. Sounds a bit wacky but it works fairly well as a sub system.

    So if he has Cmaj7 he would play any/all of those chords over the Cmaj7, he might play Cma7-Ama7-Cmaj7, or Cmaj7-Ebmaj7-Cmaj7, or Cmaj7-Ama7-Gbmaj, or maybe just Ebmaj7, or Gbmaj7.

    This is a big concept to get all at once. Maybe start by taking the chord you have written, say F7 in in the first four bars of an F blues, and going back and forth between F7 and B7, or F7 and Ab7, or F7 and D7. Then once that gets comfortable you can mix 3 chords, then 4 chords together.

    MW

  13. #12

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    Right...I get all of that. It is a unique sub system and very interesting to look at. I was trying to get into the voicings of some other contemporary players.namely gilad hekselmann and maybe lage lund as well.

  14. #13

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    Ah, well I don't really know those guys very well, I'm more of a Monder, Rosenwinkel, Rogers guy.

    your best bet is to transcibe those guys comping over tunes. It can be hard and take a long time but it's worth it. I've transcribed an album by Rogers and an album by Kurt and even though there were days when I wanted to break my guitar over my knee in the end the pluses far outweighed the minuses.

    MW

  15. #14
    thanks for the useful tips on KR and the NPR download! I am a big fan of his playing. where can i find the scores to his compositions, i.e., the changes? I would like to analyze his music.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by m78w
    Sure, Kurt likes to divide the octave into 4 equal parts and then use any/all of those chords when soloing.

    If he has a Cmaj7 chord for example, in his head he sees Cmaj7+Ebmaj7+Gbmaj7+Amaj7, so a Cdim7 chord harmonized with maj7 chords. Sounds a bit wacky but it works fairly well as a sub system.

    So if he has Cmaj7 he would play any/all of those chords over the Cmaj7, he might play Cma7-Ama7-Cmaj7, or Cmaj7-Ebmaj7-Cmaj7, or Cmaj7-Ama7-Gbmaj, or maybe just Ebmaj7, or Gbmaj7.

    This is a big concept to get all at once. Maybe start by taking the chord you have written, say F7 in in the first four bars of an F blues, and going back and forth between F7 and B7, or F7 and Ab7, or F7 and D7. Then once that gets comfortable you can mix 3 chords, then 4 chords together.

    MW
    Hi Matt,

    I've been tossing around the ideas you presented above (C-A-F#-Eb major seventh substitutions over Cmaj7) and trying to understand them a bit better. The thing is that any particular pair of chords sounds ok, but taken together they seem to sound a bit weird and I'm not sure I'm using it right. Are the A, F# and Eb meant more to provide contrast (for example as passing chords or are they the main focus? If the latter, it seems they could really disturb a soloist who is doing his own thing in the key of C major. I know Kurt's comping doesn't sound like what I hear when I play those chords. Enlighten me, please!

  17. #16

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    Kurt would use that approach more for soloing than comping. Most of the times I've seen him live he tends to lay out behind the piano solos, and comp very sparsely behind sax solos.

    He would use them in chords, but mostly in his own chord solos, rather than comping. The key to this for me is to learn to hear the different keys. That way you'll know when it's a good time to play "out" and when it's time to bring it back "in."

    I don't know for sure, but I'd guess Kurt spent a few hundred, if not thousand, hours working through this stuff before it really became a part of his own voice.

    Take your time, start with two chords, then three, then four. If you don't like one or more of the chords, just skip them and use the ones you like.

    MW

  18. #17
    i think i get it. playing "out" vs "in" you have to learn to use it wisely. thanks!

  19. #18

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    I actually took a lesson with gilad and a masterclass with Kurt both very insightful. I cant give transcriptions but i can tell you a bit of what each one does.

    Gilad- Whenever hes practicing and makes a mistake, he stops and thinks about why he made it. Also composes lyrics in his head to his improv to make it more lyrical.

    Kurt- Cycles through pentatonics in whole-steps fluidly for that contemporary sound.

  20. #19

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  21. #20

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    When is Kurt's guitar method book coming out? I heard from an interview that he was putting one out on Mel Bay, in addition to the transcription book.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by AG129
    I actually took a lesson with gilad and a masterclass with Kurt both very insightful. I cant give transcriptions but i can tell you a bit of what each one does.

    Gilad- Whenever hes practicing and makes a mistake, he stops and thinks about why he made it. Also composes lyrics in his head to his improv to make it more lyrical.

    Kurt- Cycles through pentatonics in whole-steps fluidly for that contemporary sound.
    Kurt - "Cycles through pentatonics in whole-steps"
    Can anyone tell more ???

  23. #22

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    It seems that possibly after Wes, Kurt is the most referred to guitarist throughout this forum. So I have been trying to understand why. I have been listening to some tacks on Spotify, but I have to admit I don't really get it ! Great technique and musicality, no doubt. But frankly, I'm finding it all a bit too introspective and reflective to be, er, entertaining - a bit like Metheny on mogadon.

    Am I listening to the wrong tracks ? Tell me, - where should I start if I really want to appreciate him ? Which are the killer tracks ? I feel left out and would really would like to be able to join in the forum hero worship.

    I realise I'm leaving myself open to the criticism that his playing and nuance are too subtle for me to appreciate - a criticism which I am happy to accept. If that's the case, I'm going to have to be happy to live without listening to Kurt.

    OK - next, the "What's so great about Wes ?" thread.

  24. #23

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    I can really appreciate his playing on standards. He has a few standards albums. I can appreciate his compositions as well, they are just not aesthetically what I'm drawn to.

    However I think this is all around amazing, this is an original:



    If you'd like a list of the things he is capable of on a technical level that not many people can access, well there's a lot of stuff there, but it seems like you already get that part of it but just don't enjoy listening to his stuff. And that's a-ok! I don't like Thai food.

  25. #24
    I just took a look at Spotify and here is what I'd suggest. If you have a style preference, let it be known and you might get a more specific direction. He has covered a lot of ground.

    Straight-ahead - Intuit, Reflections, East Coast Love Affair, Mark Turner's 'Ballad Sessions'

    Modern (whatever that means) - Deep Song, The Next Step, Mark Turner's Dharma Days, Seamus Blake's 'The Call', the two Live 'Remedy' recordings

    'Other' - Heartcore, Enemies of Energy

    Big band - Our Secret World

    If you want tracks -

    Straight-ahead - 'Ask Me Now' from Reflections, 'Lazy Bird' from East Coast, 'All or Nothing At All' from Turner's Ballad

    Modern - 'Brooklyn Sometimes' from Deep Song, 'Zhivago' from The Next Step, 'Jacky's Place' from Turner's Dharma Days, any track from the Remedy recording.

    Other - 'Blue Line' from Heartcore, 'Cubism' from Deep Song

    Big Band - 'Zhivago' or 'Turns' from Our Secret World

    This is all just my opinion. I'd never criticize anyone for not liking him. He can be overwhelming to me and I love him to death. If you ever hear any of his bootlegs, it is almost Coltranian at times. He has somehow mixed Van Eps with Holdsworth. But I could definitely see people not liking him for a number of different reasons.

  26. #25

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    Jeff - thanks for the suggestions - I'll follow these up.

    I think it would be too strong to say I dislike him. Maybe your suggestions will shift me from my neutral position.