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That's exactly how I felt about Deep Song - obviously the army of Kurt fans feel the opposite.
Originally Posted by newsense
To my mind - what really put Kurt on the map was the album "The Next Step" particularly the tracks "Zhivago" and "Minor Blues" - when I heard those I realised a new major player was now on the scene. That album basically provided the template for so much modern jazz you hear young guys playing these days.
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04-05-2013 07:49 PM
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Ok hang on a sec.....you have to hear this. Like most jazz it's best heard live. No matter what you think of his recordings you have to listen to this. His touch, his gobsmacking tone and that magic that only happens rarely.......music is made. Look at the guys concentration and then close your eyes and just listen. IMHO this is a masterpiece.
Oh and I'm not a fan boy. I actually don't dig a lot of his recordings. BUT he also wrote Zhivago which to my mind is a modern classic.
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One of my favorite recordings of the last couple years features Kurt's playing prominently. The Joel Frahm Quartet Live at Smalls. I'd describe it as somewhere between modern and straight ahead. I think it's on iTunes, I got it from smalls where you can download CD-resolution FLAC files.
Off-topic: Smalls video has Jonathan Kriesberg's quartet (I think, just remembered about it now) tonight and tomorrow night, but ya gotta pay for it.
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When I first listened to Kurt, I wasn't blown away, I was actually kind of drawn back. I didn't dig it at all. I listened to a lot of his music, The Remedy, Reflections, even his stuff with Brian Blade, and I couldn't get into him. I forgot about it for a while, until I moved to NY. A friend of mine told me he was gonna go see Kurt one night and I decided to go with him as I had nothing else to do. It was probably the best show I've seen in my life. The amount of emotion put into the music is insane. I got to see his new group, on the village vanguard set the week before they recorded Star of Jupiter. It was really mindblowing. After I went to that, I really found his music more accessible, and I really liked it and got into it. I don't know if it was because my ears were more developed than when I first heard him, or if it was just because it took having to go see him live to get into him.
Most of the times he plays, it's almost like he uses the rhythm section as a backing track. I don't mean it in a sense that he's not listening, because his ears are always open, and you can tell, but he doesn't put in the same amount of work for his rhythm section than they do for him. Here's a few examples, on Our Secret World, the album where he's playing with a whole big band, there's only two solos that are not guitar solos on the whole album. On a record where there's about 20 players, he takes all the solos except for two. That's a little too much, isn't it?
I've also seen him with his standards trio, when he brought in Peter Bernstein last year at the Jazz Standard for one of the nights. All through the night, you could see him cutting off Pete short on many of his solos.
e also barely comps for others. Be that with his new group, when Aaron Parks takes a solo. Or at that show at the Standard when Pete took a solo, a lot of the times Pete had to comp for himself, as in a trio setting. He'll comp for others sometimes, but not always, in many situations where I wish he did.
So I kind of have as many good things to say about him as bad things. He's one of my favorite players, but not my favorite. That's what keeps me liking guys in the modern vein like Lage Lund better than him.
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jtizzle - this might be a generation gap thing, but after a concert, I wouldn't presume to go up to a great player after they have performed and ask them questions about music because it could be construed as a lack of respect, or simply they want to chill. By all means show appreciation for the music, but keep it short and sweet. Maybe then if you pick up the vibe they are happy to talk more then cool. You could literally have the been the 623rd kid under 25 (if that's your age) to ask him similar questions like that after a show - you didn't actually state that he said anything rude to you, so if he was giving off a vibe like he just wanted to be left alone and talk to his friends or whatever, then you shouldn't really have a problem with that. I dig you're into the music and want to get involved, but you don't know what someone might be going through on a personal level that day so I wouldn't read too much into it. My 2cents
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I do know what you mean, which is why I choose not to judge him by his personal character. There's stories of guys like Joe Pass, Chet Baker, Stan Getz, and a bunch of others also being assholes, that doesn't make their music bad. Same with Kurt. The thing is it's not a one night thing, I've seen him about 4 times and it's all the same, and I've heard the same from other people as well, friends of mine, and people online.
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There are some people who spend their lives searching for the extraordinary. And there are some people that are naturally inclined to the superficial. Shmoozing is an art, one some may be more naturally inclined towards. Some people are crowd pleasers on and off the stand, and some people, some performers give their all when they're up there-it's a religious experience-and they can't switch on a shit eating smile as a part of their persona.
Kurt is honest. He's genuine. He's uncompromising and after a show, or between shows, he's still in a place where no words exist and extraordinary connections are made. That's him. If you don't like his honesty, it doesn't come from any personal animosity or condescension on his part, allow a human the benefit of their own humanity. It's what he's been doing for the past 90 minutes. It doesn't make him a dick. Take what was offered through the music and say thank you, that's what his understanding of the relationship is.
Lage's a sweetie. It's his natural self to be engaging. That has a bearing on his public perception but not necessarily his validity as an artist. Both Kurt and Lage are rare original voices, and both of them are very real and warm people. They differ in the way they engage strangers after an exhausting and committed musical experience.
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It was a double bill. Middle East in Cambridge MA and Bill Frisell's "First great quartet (with Hank Roberts)" was headlining. The opening act was a kid who was the talk of the local circuit but still an unknown. I think he was only 20 years old.
That night Kurt played a set of standards and his originals and EVERYONE in the place knew they had just witnessed the next new voice of the genre. Bill included. He still remembers that night well.
Their music has only looked forward since.
David
On the attached file that's a very young Kurt with his classmate Seamus Blake.Last edited by TH; 04-07-2013 at 12:28 AM.
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To my ears his self-comping is second to none.
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His "self comping" is really good...Kriesberg might be even better, in my opinion.Rosenwinkel really had to grow on me...I was not a fan from the get go, and he's still not my favorite writer. The kicker for me was the Remedy...i mean, you get Mark Turner too, so even if you don't end up digging Kurt you still get Mark, who's just awesome...but Rosenwinkel's tone is really in your face on this record, and his playing is really charged up...it's just brilliant, IMHO. worth a shot...
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Great stuff. But I'm wondering about your timeline or the venue. He was born in 1970. I saw Frisell in Cambridge around that time and I think Roberts was with him, but it was definitely upstairs at the other place three blocks away on Main Street (I think it just closed down in the last few years but I can't remember the name), and I really don't remember anybody opening for him. The Middle East opened its basement for music in 87 according to the internets, but I walked by it quite often and don't remember ever it having jazz at that time, certainly not a name like Frisell. Besides the place on Main St., there was the hotel in Harvard Square where I saw Sco, Metheney, Blakey, Burton that had a club and a bigger room. But I'm drawing a real blank with this Middle East and jazz in the late 80's. Are you sure about the venue? And if so, are you sure it wasn't a few years later, say early 90's? Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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Early 90's. Middle East upstairs, and it was a double bill. You're thinking of Night Stage, that's long gone. The Jazz at the Middle East Upstairs was a short lived thing, but not so short that Bill didn't play there twice with that group. Yes, I've got it well documented and I'm sorry you didn't make it. They were good shows.
At that time Kurt played the downstairs room at Ryles quite regularly too. People didn't really "discover" him until quite a bit later though so of course only a few people remember those evenings.
Bill Frisell's history with the Middle East went right up to the final tour of that group's existence. In October '90, he played a two night engagement there and a few weeks later they played the Knitting Factory for a week; the last dates of that great quartet.
Kurt did play the opening act at an earlier swing through. Not so much opening, but a shared evening that all there will not forget.
David
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Seems like it all happened in 1990 if that was the last tour of that group. I left mid-summer that year. Yeah, too bad I missed that. I've never seen Kurt. Did you catch Frisell over at the Night Stage with that group? I remember the bass player broke a string and had to take 5 minutes to put on a new one. Frisell did a little bit of stand up. "So, anybody here play guitar? Come on, we all play a little guitar." And judging by the crowd, it had to be over 90% guitar players. Actually it really really looked like 100% guitar players. Even my buddy who couldn't play a diminished chord still played a little guitar.
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As for KR not comping / comping very little for others - maybe he's comping in a manner in which he would like others to comp for him. I know for myself, I don't want much, and I have no problem getting *nothing*, especially if I'm not feeling what I'm being given....I can't say definitively, as I don't know the guy...
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Comping at its best is always in service of the music. A good comper knows how far to step back, when and when to add the right reflection. This is something that doesn't become apparent until you're the one that has a place you want to go and somebody's idea of your solo is getting in the way. It's not the place of a chordal player to "keep you from getting lost" at least on the level these cats play. It's their job to watch the energy, know what you're doing and be invisible while adding a telepathic touch.
When somebody realizes that your style includes chordal accent, they'd better back off. Peter Bernstein loves his chordal vocabulary. The fact that Kurt would give him that space is the sign of a good listener. When he's behind a vocalist, he'll play completely differently.
Comping is a very personal choice. One's value is often determined by what you don't play rather than showing what you can do.
If you don't get this, that's a personal thing too.
David
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To comp really well is hard - I have a duo with a double bass player and I'm still figuring the best approach for comping when he solos, mainly because the bass register sits below the guitar so the challenge is to support the solo without dominating the mix.
Jim Hall comps like a mofo - LOVE the way Monk comps. My view isn't as extreme as Rich's but guitarists quite often clutter it up with chords that are too thick. Way prefer just to hear bass and drums than have a mediocre comp going on.
That's a kick ass solo Adam Rogers does on that clip, get the feeling his amp was cranked playing next to that drummer - I'd literally be wearing earplugs on a gig like that
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Don't forget that comping is not only a skill, it is also a matter of taste. Originally Posted by jtizzle
If you prefer the music of Peter Bernstein to Adam Rogers or Kurt or Sco then it isn't strange that you also prefer their choice in comping other soloists. That does not really mean that they cannot comp though.
As for comping or not comping piano solos. I think if you ask most piano players they'd rather you did not comp them, as it is much more likely to get in the way than actually add something.
Jens
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KR puts so much of his energy / spirit into his playing that it's no wonder that he might need time to get his bearings after, and have some quiet time. He's arguably the most popular of the "sorta new-ish but not really" generation of jazz guitarists / composers and that translates to him having to deal with a constant barrage of questions, some of them incredibly lame. The guy gets hounded - give him a break.
Somehow I can't quite picture Kurt being able to equal your level of enthusiasm regarding "Dirty Sanchezes" etc...but who knows?
Someone was talking about Miles's last quintet and their conversational comping - soloing together - great stuff, as long as it stays conversational and doesn't devolve into Dixieland....
I had a chance to play with John Stowell a few years back and we did some of that type of playing and it felt really nice...
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I can't even imagine what it must be like to be Kurt - to be one of the most copied jazz guitarists on Earth at this point. You have to assume he faces a blizzard of questions daily, most of them the same questions over and over again. Multiply that times years and years and add in normal life which is plenty heavy.
When I saw him recently, that is what crossed my mind as he walked on and off stage - how heavy life must be to deal with that much sensory data all day, every day. It has to be a massive weight.
It might seemed overly sentimental but as someone in Kurt's general age range and also having two small kids, I also thought of how much he must miss them. I feel like crap about the world when I am away from mine for a few days at a time.
I didn't even bother trying to find him after the set last month. I am sure I could have easily asked one of my friends to hook me up but it seemed disrespectful. He had already given me plenty.
I cut the guy some slack for not being Mr. Sunshine. By all accounts I have seen he isn't rude or mean, just quiet. I am not sure what else I would expect from him beyond what he freely gives.
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This is Kurt with Chris Potter. You can judge for yourself what he sounds like comping, soloing and what he adds to the ensemble or not.
Last edited by TH; 04-13-2013 at 05:43 AM.
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Kurt on stage with Allan Holdsworth from last last night.
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Nice!
This from Aaron Parks (keys):
1) The very first notes I played (the intro to Kurt's tune "Heavenly Bodies") gave me quite a shock, as the sound I was hearing wasn't that of a piano, but something considerably more plucky and odd. After looking around in some bewilderment, I discovered that someone had turned on the midi output of the C7 I was playing, and for some reason the sound was set to "Guitar Fret." A sound guy rushed onstage and as I continued playing he cycled through a few sounds (including a drum cymbal sample) until I managed to get the cursed thing turned off. Couldn't stop giggling for a little while after that.
2) Allan Holdsworth joined us for the second tune, and after a small delay due to some technical difficulties, he launched into a mind-expanding solo guitar intro, which led into an epic version of Gamma Band. Yes, epic. The word is overused, but in this case it seems appropriate. Kurt and Allan together was mayhem, in the best way.
3) I comped behind an Eric Clapton guitar solo on a reharmonized arrangement of "If I Should Lose You." Can't imagine that I'll find myself in that situation ever again.
4) We ended with a shuffle blues in A. It was a party
5) I had a good time.
Thanks NSJ. You were there, I assume? Apparently they've recorded it- for DVD release.?
David
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I was just about to post that! That was my friend Andrew who recorded that (Great drummer you all should check out by the way!) Originally Posted by NSJ
Really great stuff from Allan, although it sounds like he was having some technical difficulties, which Aaron seems to have mentioned as well, I wish he would have gotten the whole video, but some other video will surface soon, probably.
Aaron also said it's gonna come out on DVD sometime in the future.
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Hey, thanks for posting this – it's fantastic. I've heard the tune before but I can"t name it. Do you know what it is? Sounds like a Larry Young thing to me. Don't suppose you've got any more of the gig?
Cheers
T
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The tune is 'Gamma Band' from KR's album 'Star of Jupiter'.
Another YouTube user has what looks like the full set online.
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