The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    So seriously...not trolling....

    Those if you who have switched to this...worth it? The practice time you've taken away from tunes, writing, harmonic ideas, etc...
    For me, yes.

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  3. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    So seriously...not trolling....

    Those if you who have switched to this...worth it? The practice time you've taken away from tunes, writing, harmonic ideas, etc...
    The practice time for me was worth it. I can actually hang on some tunes at 300 bpm now, which I never could before. It was also a good opportunity for me to revisit my time, tone, etc. while rebuilding my technique from the ground up.

    If your picking works already I don't see why you'd do it, but if you completely fell apart at fast tempos like I used to it might be worth looking in to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2
    OK . . . so your avatar shows you as a right handed player. The video shows you as a lefty. Mirror?


    Is this for me, Patrick? For some reason the "Photo Booth" app that came with my mac films everything in reverse. I don't really understand why. I need to switch to using iMovie, I guess, but the Photo Booth thing was easier for me to figure out (I'm a technology moron).

    I'm a righty.

  4. #103

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    Thanks ecj, great video lesson and explanation.

  5. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Thanks ecj, great video lesson and explanation.
    Thanks, Frank. I hope it helps. Picking has always been my number one struggle on the guitar. I spent many, many years feeling like I would never be able to play like my heroes and feeling bad about myself. After digging in this last year on Benson picking everything fell into place.

    I still can't play like my heroes - haha - but I am at least at the point where if I want to learn a lick, I can actually get it up to speed. Used to be that I'd transcribe a lick and spend weeks on it, only to eventually give up in frustration. Now it's pretty easy to incorporate new stuff into my bag.

  6. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecj
    Is this for me, Patrick? For some reason the "Photo Booth" app that came with my mac films everything in reverse. I don't really understand why. I need to switch to using iMovie, I guess, but the Photo Booth thing was easier for me to figure out (I'm a technology moron).
    This was fine, though. I mean, I wondered why you looked left-handed all the sudden but it didn't detract from the presentation.

  7. #106

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    Tomorrow----he warned---I shall return standing and strapped. We'll see if that helps...

  8. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecj
    Picking has always been my number one struggle on the guitar. I spent many, many years feeling like I would never be able to play like my heroes and feeling bad about myself. After digging in this last year on Benson picking everything fell into place.
    That's my story too. At least the struggling part. It's maddening at times. I won't give up but I knew something was making me what I feel I must call "reliably inconsistent." It would be great to play really fast but more than anything else, I want to know that when I want to play things I know and have practiced, they will come out right.

  9. #108

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    Hi Mark,
    Here's a bunch of photos of my right hand position with my guitar. It's a big 18" body. I'm 6' and it doesn't seem to give me any problems reaching around it. I hope this helps.

    Mark Cally

    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1222-jpg
    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1221-jpg
    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1220-jpg
    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1216-jpg
    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1212-jpg

  10. #109

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    Pay close attention to the pics, Mark, setemupjoe plays his ass off with this technique.

    Just FYI, I've got a lot on my plate tomorrow so probably won't be around to respond to any questions until Sun.

    EDIT - Also look at how far to the right his guitar is in the last pic.
    Last edited by ecj; 06-20-2014 at 11:45 PM.

  11. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe
    Hi Mark,
    Here's a bunch of photos of my right hand position with my guitar. It's a big 18" body. I'm 6' and it doesn't seem to give me any problems reaching around it. I hope this helps.

    Mark Cally
    Thanks, Mark. Yes, those pictures help. I'm amassing a collection of them for future reference. Also, as of this morning, I'm standing up to play. One advantage of this is that I can stand in front of a bigger mirror to get an overall sense of my posture, hand position, etc. (Before, I had a small mirror on my music stand which only reflected my hand position, unless I moved....;o)

  12. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richb
    I don't deliberately want to be mean, but it needs to be said: ( and I should know since I knowingly copied Benson for a while too)

    All the guys who adopt this position seem to wind up as Benson-clones.
    These clones seem to judge their "ability" by how closely they can ape their hero. It's not cool at all.
    Well, Rich, since you put it that way, I've heard JC Stylles play and I've heard you play and I would much rather listen to him. I would also rather hear me with an improved right hand than me the way I was before.

    It's fine with me that you would rather play another way. Best of luck to you.

  13. #112

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    Regarding Richb's post. Firstly, to Richb . . I don't think your post was mean spirited at all, as you were concerned it might be.

    Also, I do think Richb has a point here. a very large part of what makes GB . . . GB . . . is the tone he get from his picking technique . . . (all things within it encompassed). I remember reading in Just Jazz Guitar, where Ed Benson interviews players then does (or did) what he called a blind fold test. He would play a series of different artists for the pro player he was interviewing and the player would have to name the artist in the recording. One guy (can't remember who he was) listened to a recording and said immediately . . . "That's George Benson! I'd recognize that pick attack anywhere".

    There might be those who are seeking that out . . . to sound exactly like GB (not withstanding his great lines) . . . just as some want to "sound" exactly like Wes and attempt to emmulate his thumb technique. But, there are others who use their thumb and do not want to sound like Wes. Also, there are pros who do use GBs technique and have avoided sounding like a clone of him.

    So, I think what Richb might be trying to say here is, if you want to use GBs picking technique, be cognizent of not totally becoming a GB clone . . . unless you want to.

    I've mentioned before, it's taken me some 35 years of developing my very own picking style and technique. That is now who and what I've become. I don't what to reinvent that, at this point in my life. I'm sure for some they might find what I do to be restrictive or not to their liking. But, it's me . . and I have no intention of trying to totally revamp everything I do from the shoulder down to my thumb and fore finger just to get a little bit faster. Besides . . I use so much of the hammer on, pull off, slurr technique type stuff in my playing, that I currently get all the speed I could ever want. My issue isn't right hand technique. It's knowing where the fingers on my left hand need to go during an improv that I need more focus on. lolol

  14. #113

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    I just stumbled on that thread, and since my picking technique hasn't improved much lately, I'm willing to give the Benson technique a go.

    I've read most of the posts and would like to check if I got all the key points right :

    -relaxed shoulder
    -pick motion comes from the wrist
    -30-45 degrees pick angle

    Is that all ?


    I also have a quick question : if I relax my arm completely, it makes my hand go toward the headstock, and I end up having it over the fretboard. So I kind of anchor my forearm to the edge of the guitar's body. Is this how it's supposed to be ?

    Thanks for all the info and discussion, this is all very interesting.

  15. #114

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    I think I shared this once before but it seems worth posting it again. This is me playing Barney Kessel's version of "On a Slow Boat to China."


  16. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe
    I think I shared this once before but it seems worth posting it again. This is me playing Barney Kessel's version of "On a Slow Boat to China."
    Great playing, Mark. Thanks for posting this. You're a generous man and I deeply appreciate what you bring to this discussion.

    One question: is the tip of your pick pointing in the same direction as your index finger or is it at a 45 degree angle (or thereabouts)?

    One more question: in this video it seems like the guitar is resting normally on your right thigh but in a previous picture it looked (-to me, anyway) is if it isn't the arch that's on your thigh but the underside of the cutaway. Is it?

  17. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Jones
    I just stumbled on that thread, and since my picking technique hasn't improved much lately, I'm willing to give the Benson technique a go.

    I've read most of the posts and would like to check if I got all the key points right :

    -relaxed shoulder
    -pick motion comes from the wrist
    -30-45 degrees pick angle

    Is that all ?
    Welcome, Professor Jones. Glad to hear you're willing to give this a go. I think a big part of it is how one holds the pick. (Many guys play with wrist motion and angle their picks but aren't doing anything like Benson / Stylles picking.)

    I think the best thing to do is get the J C Stylles tutorial. Yeah, it costs a few bucks but I think it's money well spent (-and I don't have much to throw around...)

    Short of that, give it a go and then show us what you got and we'll see what we can see. ;o)

  18. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Great playing, Mark. Thanks for posting this. You're a generous man and I deeply appreciate what you bring to this discussion.

    One question: is the tip of your pick pointing in the same direction as your index finger or is it at a 45 degree angle (or thereabouts)?

    One more question: in this video it seems like the guitar is resting normally on your right thigh but in a previous picture it looked (-to me, anyway) is if it isn't the arch that's on your thigh but the underside of the cutaway. Is it?
    Hi Mark,
    I took a couple of pictures of the pick in my hand which will show it much clearer than me trying to explain.

    The guitar is sitting on my knee in the arch though I can see from some of those photos where it's a little unclear.

    Mark Cally

    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1223-jpg
    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1224-jpg

  19. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe
    Hi Mark,
    I took a couple of pictures of the pick in my hand which will show it much clearer than me trying to explain.

    The guitar is sitting on my knee in the arch though I can see from some of those photos where it's a little unclear.

    Mark Cally


    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1224-jpg
    That's the ticket! In the first picture----the normal view of this while playing, looking down at one's thumb----one can imagine that the pick is pointed the same way as the finger, but in the second picture, it is clear that the pick is pointing at an angle. I seem to do better holding it that way. I'll make a "point" to keep at it.

    O, about the guitar sitting on your knee in the arch---this means the guitar neck is not at the usual angle one has when standing, right? Do you keep that same neck angle when standing (if you ever play standing)?

  20. #119

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    I try to keep the guitar in the same position whether standing or sitting. I mostly stand when I play and I have the strap at a length that hangs the guitar across my body at the same height as when I'm sitting.

  21. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe
    I try to keep the guitar in the same position whether standing or sitting. I mostly stand when I play and I have the strap at a length that hangs the guitar across my body at the same height as when I'm sitting.
    Thanks.

    Most of my adult life I've played with a strap, even when seated, so the guitar was pretty much in the same place whether I sat or stood. However, I think I wore my guitar a bit high and my picking stank in any case. What I have to do now is go the other way: find the position in which I can consistently execute this style of picking and strap myself in accordingly, so that the guitar's always not only in the same place but in the RIGHT place for me.

  22. #121

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    To All,
    I've been following this thread in increments as it has grown over the past year and a half. Having decided to ask some questions, I went back and re-read the entire thread and watched the videos. Thanks to all of you who posted videos. Your generosity is greatly appreciated. You guys represent the spirit of the forum at its best.


    Although I am called upon at times to accompany singers performing standards, I also find myself having to cover blues, country and R&B also. With that in mind, I would like to know:


    1. While it appears that the Benson Technique translates best to flat wound strings, do any of you (philco, setemupjoe,ecj, 3625) think that using round wounds is completely out of the question?


    2. What gauge strings are you all using and what, in your estimation, is the lightest gauge that one could use successfully?


    3. Telecasters were mentioned briefly in regard to the pick-up selector. Have any of you successfully emploted the BT on a Tele or do you feel that an archtop is the best way to go? George seemed to do O.K. with a Les Paul the video that was posted earlier today but the LP has more in common with an archtop fingerboard and string arc-wise than a Tele.


    4. Most of you that have purchased J.C. Stylles tutorial have said good things about it. Is the video itself enough or does the coaching package justify the extra cost?


    Thanks,
    Jerome

  23. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe
    Hi Mark,
    Here's a bunch of photos of my right hand position with my guitar. It's a big 18" body. I'm 6' and it doesn't seem to give me any problems reaching around it. I hope this helps.

    Mark Cally

    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1222-jpg
    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1221-jpg
    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1220-jpg
    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1216-jpg
    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-img_1212-jpg
    Hey man . . . I think I recognize that guitar.

  24. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2
    Hey man . . . I think I recognize that guitar.
    Lol. Didn't you just get one of these? I put Seth lovers in and I love it. I had to work on it for a while because I wanted to match the feel of the neck on my Gibson Super V but now it's perfect.

  25. #124

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    setemup's technique looks a lot like Sheryl Bailey's:

    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-sherylbailey-jpg

    I believe you both studied with Rodney Jones, right?

    Like Philco, I have a non-bendy thumb. Absolutely zero backbend in it. I just use more of the tip of my thumb against the pick than the pad.

    You can see in this earlier vid that I did that I've gone back and forth between the different ways of doing it:



    My hand position is more like setemup's there, I think. I'll use that frequently when I want a brighter tone. The Jc Stylles hand position puts the pick more angled towards the strings. I can pretty much the same with either, so I'm not sure it's that important which you choose.

    Great discussion. Fun to learn from you heavy players!

  26. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe
    Lol. Didn't you just get one of these? I put Seth lovers in and I love it. I had to work on it for a while because I wanted to match the feel of the neck on my Gibson Super V but now it's perfect.
    Yeah, I've got a couple of Super Eagles. I really love the patina your blond has taken on. The Super V looks and sounds great. The video shows a great close up illustration of the picking technique in question. I'd be really interested in seeing a video of your playing utilizing the more conventional technique . . . most particularly with the Super V. I'd be curious as to the differences in tone, as well as execution of speed. I hope you get to post one while this thread is still active.