Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo

[MarkRhodes]

George Benson dong "All Blues" live with George Duke and company.

[edh]

Xclnt!

[MarkRhodes]

I started anchoring with the pinky so long ago, it now seems, that I do it without thought. That is a good thing. But I just recently realized that I gave little thought to the feel of anchoring. That is, my 'pinky rides the plate' but it was never the "fulcrum" Mark Cally talks about. That is, the pinky was there, but there was no real weight on it. Meaning, I was holding my arm in place by some other means. (Make sense?)

For the past few days, I've tried to put make the pinky more a point of pressure (-nothing heavy, mind you) than one of mere presence.

It seems to make a difference.

When you anchor, say just before you start to play, is the pinky grazing the pickguard or really resting there as a fairly-fixe point of contact?

Thanks---I'll hang up and listen! (As they say on call-in radio shows.) ;o)

[setemupjoe]

You can see where I've worn away the finish on my pickguard from where my pinky rests.

[MarkRhodes]

You can see where I've worn away the finish on my pickguard from where my pinky rests.

Whoa! How long did that take to develop?

[setemupjoe]

A year or so. On a standard tortoiseshell pickguard I never noticed anything but when I bought this heritage with the fancy blond pickguard I realized how much friction was going on.

[MarkRhodes]

A year or so. On a standard tortoiseshell pickguard I never noticed anything but when I bought this heritage with the fancy blond pickguard I realized how much friction was going on.

That's good to know.
For me, for so long, there was really no friction. The pinky was grazing, not resting. I think that's why my hand moved so much (-although the pinky remained on the pickguard, it just slid / glided over the surface). So now I put my pinky there and pause, letting awareness of my hand and arm register. It makes a difference.

[MarkRhodes]

You can see where I've worn away the finish on my pickguard from where my pinky rests.

In looking at this again, I realize my pinky is closer to the tailpiece pickup....

[setemupjoe]

I don't see a problem with that.

[MarkRhodes]

I don't see a problem with that.

I don't either. I am reviewing things, trying things. Parts of this are second-nature now but some things are not fixed and I want to be careful before they become deeply engrained habits. (God knows how much trouble such habits are to undo later...)

[MarkRhodes]

This thread seems to have grown rather quiet since the discussion about rest strokes and all-changes-with-downstrokes.

I hope no one has checked out or given up on talking with the rest of us.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'm still here, I just haven't had anything to say.

[destinytot]

Practising...

Anchoring with pinky knuckle while playing melody (ballads) with authority (downstrokes)...

Fretting firmly, improvising - mind on music, matching speed/technique to moment...

"Them there's changes being made," as Mr Waller said.

[AlainJazz]

I've gone back to practicing and playing with my old std grip technique. The reason is that I want to be able to do both and switch at will. Russell Malone does this, and I think I know why. I have been struggling for a long time with fast strumming using this technique. Also pull-off/hammer ons do not work well with benson picking and there are times when I need them. Playing in a funk/Latin/jazz band I find it very difficult for chord/strumming work. Yes, I've tried everything and had a lot of good advice from here, but it never feels natural.

Now, playing straight ahead jazz with this technique. Yes, nothing beats the control you get with it but it is only good if you really intend on picking almost every note. Also, although I really like the tone you get with it acoustically, I also like the tone of standard grip with a heavier pick sometimes, especially when amplified.

[destinytot]

I've gone back to practicing and playing with my old std grip technique. The reason is that I want to be able to do both and switch at will.

I am using a standard grip on acoustic (thanks to a loosely-held D'Andrea Pro-Plec), but - when I make an effort to actually play honestly - I'm finding this technique works better than I'd hoped.

I'm also finding it more important than ever to practise purposefully - I'm preparing lots of new tunes (from vocal versions), and working out what I want to 'say' on guitar.

There are moments during practising when everything seems to flow, but only when I use a medium pick. I can't use my old heavy picks with anywhere near the control I'm getting with the medium.

[MarkRhodes]

Herb Ellis used a conventional grip but held at a steep angle. Recently I watched him talk about this in an instructional video and thought, "Hhhmmm, let me see what that feels like." Not good! It's the opposite angle of the Benson approach. Obviously worked for Herb, and if I had put a lot of time in on that years ago, it might be second nature to me now. Can't see any reason to work on it now that I finally seem to be making fresh progress with the Benson approach.

As for the conventional grip---as generally explained in books aimed at beginners---I don't even want to do that in jest anymore. Way too much of the pick goes below the strings, I get caught up, it's just a big mess.

I'm glad others are more versatile than I am and can "go both ways." But for me, I'll be happy to get one way going fast!

[destinytot]

Today I took a short cut on the way home by going through the shopping mall -somewhere I haven't been for many months - and I decided to visit the music store. The huge place was totally empty of customers on a Saturday - not encouraging to see.

I tried out several guitars after being given the run of the place. (I've set my sights on a Washburn J3; I have a kind and helpful technician friend who'll set it up beautifully for me.)

Conclusion: this technique can be adapted more easily than I'd realised..

[destinytot]

I'm using a Jim Dunlop Nylon .88 tonight - great!

[Groyniad]

all i can say is that the more i follow nunocpinto's advice the better i get (and the improvement is happening much faster than it was before).

let me share a few of my most recent thoughts with everyone:

people often talk about the pinky anchor as if it worked on a sort of sub-conscious level - like over-time if you use a pinky anchor you (or your body or brain) learn where the pick has to go and how to make contact with the string because you've given yourself (or your body or brain)a reference point etc. etc.

this may be correct - i have no idea - but what is totally obvious to me is that we are dealing with a straightforwardly physical mechanism here. if you get the anchoring right then your hand sits in the right place relative to the strings and it sits in the same place relative to the strings consistently (moment by moment that is) and that means you get (straight away - not after ages of 'programming') fantastic purchase on the strings consistently. it also means you don't get muscle fatigue holding your hand in the right place etc. etc.

its very very easy to nearly get this technique - and even, nearly getting it, to improve on your old method - but fall short of really nailing it.

in order to get the clarity or articulation we're all after - and that is totally crucial if you're going to play fast 16ths - you have to get optimal 'purchase' on the strings. you can tell if you're getting optimal (or at least excellent) purchase on the strings even at slow-medium tempos - so there's no point in pursuing a certain pick-grip or wrist/arm positioning etc. if its not getting you really super-crisp and clean articulation at medium tempos.

one way to fail to get optimal string purchase is to use the side of the pick rather than the face to get the sound. this way, you get a very warm full sound - but one that lacks attack. you can use more or less of the side of the pick and mix it with more or less of the face of the pick depending on exactly how you grip the pick (its one of the crucial gb method variables). if you pick with the side of the pick and no face at all you may gradually get quieter and quieter - producing less and less sound from the guitar acoustically. so that's no good. but you don't want to use too much pick-face because that makes the sound less warm and full and it puts your hand in the wrong position too - and it slows you down.

the solution (i am finding) is to pick with the side of the pick but to tilt the face of the pick down and away from you towards the headstock/floor. this adds a tiny bit of pick-face to the pick-side and improves string purchase enormously without sacrificing warmth and speed.

just my typical nine cents worth...

[destinytot]

the solution (i am finding) is to pick with the side of the pick but to tilt the face of the pick down and away from you towards the headstock/floor. this adds a tiny bit of pick-face to the pick-side and improves string purchase enormously without sacrificing warmth and speed.

I'm pretty sure I'm finding that too. It's working really well tonight.

[Groyniad]

a properly functioning anchor allows you to grip the pick incredibly lightly - if you like, only by the very tip of the top right corner - and still get a really ringing lovely tone. the pick can flip-flop - NOT FLEX - between finger and thumb.

another classic mistake to fall into is trying to play very bright passages whilst continuing to use a wrist based motion. as soon as the tempo really gets up you need to start powering the picking from your elbow/arm not your wrist. (as nunocpinto told us)

the technique in no way limits you to picking every note (alainjazz) or to a particular style of playing - benson himself shows very clearly how freely you can move from an anchored position to a non-anchored one if the latter is what you want for strummed passages etc.

[MarkRhodes]

this may be correct - i have no idea - but what is totally obvious to me is that we are dealing with a straightforwardly physical mechanism here. if you get the anchoring right then your hand sits in the right place relative to the strings and it sits in the same place relative to the strings consistently (moment by moment that is) and that means you get (straight away - not after ages of 'programming') fantastic purchase on the strings consistently. it also means you don't get muscle fatigue holding your hand in the right place etc. etc.



one way to fail to get optimal string purchase is to use the side of the pick rather than the face to get the sound. this way, you get a very warm full sound - but one that lacks attack. you can use more or less of the side of the pick and mix it with more or less of the face of the pick depending on exactly how you grip the pick (its one of the crucial gb method variables). if you pick with the side of the pick and no face at all you may gradually get quieter and quieter - producing less and less sound from the guitar acoustically. so that's no good. but you don't want to use too much pick-face because that makes the sound less warm and full and it puts your hand in the wrong position too - and it slows you down.

Interesting points. I agree with the second one but see a problem with the first. I was watching the Benson study clip again last night and one of the most obvious things one sees when watching George play is that he moves his hand a lot. (For example, to adjust a volume or tone control knob.) He just does not keep his hand anchored all the time. He does not do this.

[MarkRhodes]

Here's the GB picking study tribute again.

Not only does he often remove his hand completely form the pickguard, it seems to move around on the pickguard while he's playing. (It often looks as if he isn't anchoring at all!)

[destinytot]

a properly functioning anchor allows you to grip the pick incredibly lightly - if you like, only by the very tip of the top right corner - and still get a really ringing lovely tone. the pick can flip-flop - NOT FLEX - between finger and thumb.

A 'weightless grip' and a 'firm anchor' = 'Heaven' and 'Earth'.

Personally, I'm using the side and knuckle of my curled pinky to anchor - but I'm anchoring. Been watching/listening to Troy Grady on YouTube - outstanding production/presentation, brilliant work. Thank you to the member that first introduced it to this thread. Surely essential viewing, not only for the relevance of the content but also for the clarity with which he explains it. (At one point, I even heard him talk about 'flop', which made me a smile.)

Personally, there are two things I've got out of watching Troy Grady that I hadn't picked up here (not counting respect for the players whose technique Troy Grady's analysed, and admiration for Grady's own achievements). The first is a clear idea of what to practise and why. In my case, specifically, articulation of all musical phrases/lines by means of conscious use and control of picking, fingering/fretting and other devices such as pull-offs (sounds obvious now!).

The second is something Troy Grady said that resonated strongly, about "putting the plumbing back in the wall." I take this to be about application of technique and theory to musical setting/context/situation. I take the view that analysis and understanding are essential before the technique can apply; what resonated with me is that I think I've moved into a new phase - the next stage in the learning cycle perhaps.

After the diners had left, there was a friendly jam. For the first time in ages, 'speed' wasn't an issue; I didn't even need to stop myself from 'trying to play fast' - a horrible habit that I fear I may have fallen into (with predictable results). I was focused on phrasing, stopping short of vocalising/singing aloud but matching my breathing to my playing (as if I were supporting the tone of my singing). I had a HUGE breakthrough, and lines flowed freely - with 'confidence and authority' (thank you, nunocpinto). I also realised that the work I need to do is about making effective use of the musical vocabulary I already have - rather than looking beyond it. Great fun!

[destinytot]

(It often looks as if he isn't anchoring at all!)

Balducci Levitation!