Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo

**MarkRhodes** · 10-15-2014, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by 3625

The sides of the GB pick have less curve than a Fender - the GB is more triangular. However, the GB's don't have a particularly sharp point - a little sharper than a Fender, but nothing like a jazz iii or picks that metal players use. Basically the GB picks are the same as a Fender, except the side curves are straightened out. By running a Fender straight across some flat sandpaper, you pretty much end up with the exact shape of the GB. I haven't got time right now to photo the one I made, but I'll post it sometime on the weekend for you to look at, plus how I sand/file them.

Okay, Jon. I get what you mean.

As for sandpaper, is there any special grain of sandpaper. (I've never bought sandpaper and wouldn't know what to look for.) Is "general purpose" okay?

**3625** · 10-15-2014, 09:59 AM

Just get the finest grade of sandpaper available - ask for 'wet and dry' sandpaper. Also get a nail file buffer with a couple of different surfaces (ranging from almost smooth to very smooth) to polish the edges once you're done shaping the pick - that's really important, otherwise the pick will sound scratchy and feel horrible.

**MarkRhodes** · 10-15-2014, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by 3625

Just get the finest grade of sandpaper available - ask for 'wet and dry' sandpaper. Also get a nail file buffer with a couple of different surfaces (ranging from almost smooth to very smooth) to polish the edges once you're done shaping the pick - that's really important, otherwise the pick will sound scratchy and feel horrible.

Great. Thanks. I'll have to make a list and check it twice....

**wesmont17** · 10-17-2014, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick2

A Les Paul with a dot finger board? Hmmm . . Looks like an '84 Studio Standard. They came with dots, no binding on the FB and tobacco sun burst. I doubt that George would own something like that. I wonder if it was a house guitar at Steamers for players who might stop by to sit in? Just goes to show ya . . a true player can play jazz on just about any guitar.

Remember seeing this and it kinda blew my mind....GB is no stranger to using a Les Paul lol.

1964 GB (age 21)

**MarkRhodes** · 10-21-2014, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by destinytot

Live, warts and all. Tomorrow is another day...

Thanks! i enjoyed that, esp "Like Someone In Love." I love to hear a guitar and upright bass. Nice vocals too!

**MarkRhodes** · 10-21-2014, 10:12 AM

About the wrist. When I first started trying to play this way, I took an underhanded approach. That is, when looking down, I could see into the palm of my picking hand. (I believe Mark Cally, aka setemupjoe does it this way.) But lately I'm doing it a bit different. (Warning: this may last no more than 2-3 days, like so many of my other changes that didn't pan out...)

Here's how it started. I've been doing a bit more fingerstyle work, esp working on an walking bass / comp chorus of "All the Things You Are." (And also blues in F and Bb but that's nowhere near the same level of challenge.) I'm also working on Tim Lerch's walk / comp of "Sweet Lorraine," and that's fingerstlye too. I take these things slow and try to get a good feel going. Nothing special, but I do enjoy it and hope to get better at playing this way. I don't think it will ever be my main thing, but I probably will do at least one tune a day this way.

Anyway, when I play fingerstyle, my wrist is more of a handshake position, certainly not in an underhanded one. I wondered what it would be like if I kept that hand position and inserted a pick. I notice that my pick attack is more forceful this way and the angle is not as steep as I get with the underhanded approach.

Just something I'm messing with today...

**ecj** · 10-21-2014, 11:54 AM

Really nice playing/singing destinytot!

Edit to add: for everyone who thinks you can hybrid pick with Benson picking.

**MarkRhodes** · 10-23-2014, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by guitargeo

Hello. It's my first mail in this forum, I hope to write right. I have say thank you to everyone. I learning so much about this technique reading this forum, all I needed. I switched to this technique about one month ago. I'm still not expert, I hope to get more speed practicing. I have to say that the first times it's a little frustrating to change after so many years, but day after day I feel progress. Today I made this little video for to show you. Just some chromatic licks. Thank you again.

Welcome aboard, and thanks for sharing. May I ask if you're using a Jazz III? (I had a hard time seeing any pick at all most of the time.) Just curious.

**guitargeo** · 10-23-2014, 06:04 PM

I am using a "fender delrin 1.14". I know, medium pick work better, but this one is different, I don't know why.

**MarkRhodes** · 10-24-2014, 09:38 AM

Apropos of nothing, here's a link to a pic of George Benson, JC Stylles, and Russell Malone with a couple beautiful guitars in a Manhattan restaurant. Russell Malone posted this picture on his Facebook page with the caption "Some days are better than others." I reckon so!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

destinytot · 10-31-2014, 06:02 AM

Joining the dots...
(Funk master) Nile Rodgers's right hand @0:45

destinytot · 10-31-2014, 07:54 AM

Benson shows his true mettle and sets the bar high (his solo @3m48secs):

**MarkRhodes** · 10-31-2014, 09:49 AM

Nice clips, destiny. Thanks.

My own grip has morphed into something different---I have more pick jutting out under my index than above it. I had tried this before and moved away from it, thinking it was a bad habit, but now I'm committed to it because it is the cleanest way for me to play. I don't know how fast I will be able to play this way, but that's not my main concern now: playing clean is.

**ecj** · 10-31-2014, 10:56 AM

Thanks for posting that clip destiny. I've seen it before, but it's always a pleasure to watch.

Benson is just so bad ass. His vocabulary is so leaps and bounds beyond almost every other guitar player. Rhythmically, harmonically, melodically. Damn.

**AlainJazz** · 10-31-2014, 12:04 PM

Ok, time to chime in again. This benson picking thing is just great for jazz. Comping, single note lines all with superior tone. I'm sold.

BUT as much as I try and try again, I cannot make it work for more intricate prolonged strumming (funk or Latin rhythms). It just doesn't work. I have even started switching back to traditional grip when I need to strum like that but it sucks because although the medium pick is great with benson technique, its crap for anything else.

I wrote this after seeing that clip of Nile Rogers with a benson grip. If he can play funky like that, then it must be possible. But it doesn't work for me.

**ecj** · 10-31-2014, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by AlainJazz

Ok, time to chime in again. This benson picking thing is just great for jazz. Comping, single note lines all with superior tone. I'm sold.

BUT as much as I try and try again, I cannot make it work for more intricate prolonged strumming (funk or Latin rhythms). It just doesn't work. I have even started switching back to traditional grip when I need to strum like that but it sucks because although the medium pick is great with benson technique, its crap for anything else.

I wrote this after seeing that clip of Nile Rogers with a benson grip. If he can play funky like that, then it must be possible. But it doesn't work for me.

It took me a while to figure out how to strum, but I've got it working now. I think you just have to realize that it's going to take a while to learn. Think how long it took to be able to do funky strumming with a standard grip. My guess is it didn't happen overnight.

I think the trick to strumming is to use a smaller angle and more of a doorknob turning/elbow motion. I try to brush the strings rather than whacking them by turning my hand.

I mean, look at Benson. It's obvious that Benson picking works for funky strumming. Because, George Benson.

**AlainJazz** · 10-31-2014, 12:25 PM

Thanks ecj. Its good to know that others manage somehow. It's just frustrating because I don't have enough time between gigs to get it to work. So I'm up there and can't keep a simple rhythm that used to be so easy. I constantly feel like that damn pick is going to fly out of my hand. I've tried holding it looser or tighter, changing angles. It just doesn't work. Some of those Latin rhythms are not trivial and doing it with this technique makes some of them almost impossible (for me). I feel like a total noob with bad time.

**Groyniad** · 10-31-2014, 02:24 PM

try moving the top of the pick closer to the headstock. tilt the pick towards the headstock - so the tip of the pick is closer to the bridge than the long-edge top of the pick. this can be really boring stuff to try to specify verbally - but its the simplest physical modification and it has an immediate effect. it softens the sound - makes it easier to brush rather than to strike the strings - and will make it much less likely that you'll have any problems holding onto the little flucker.

i think that as one moves from strumming to single note lines one stops tilting the pick in this way - or tilts it less - and this enables you to 'dig in' to the strings more (in the way you will want to for single note playing).

i've been spending most of my time working on the transition between (fast) strumming and line-playing - and this tilting thing has become a major theme. it makes a huge difference to the amount of control you feel you have over the guitar's 'output' - and it seems obvious to me that you need it to open up the fast strumming aspect of this right hand technique.

**ecj** · 10-31-2014, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by AlainJazz

Thanks ecj. Its good to know that others manage somehow. It's just frustrating because I don't have enough time between gigs to get it to work. So I'm up there and can't keep a simple rhythm that used to be so easy. I constantly feel like that damn pick is going to fly out of my hand. I've tried holding it looser or tighter, changing angles. It just doesn't work. Some of those Latin rhythms are not trivial and doing it with this technique makes some of them almost impossible (for me). I feel like a total noob with bad time.

Yeah, it's weird at first.

When I'm doing really fast strumming across all the strings, sometimes I use the middle finger to stabilize the pick.

**M-ster** · 10-31-2014, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by AlainJazz

Ok, time to chime in again. This benson picking thing is just great for jazz. Comping, single note lines all with superior tone. I'm sold.

BUT as much as I try and try again, I cannot make it work for more intricate prolonged strumming (funk or Latin rhythms). It just doesn't work. I have even started switching back to traditional grip when I need to strum like that but it sucks because although the medium pick is great with benson technique, its crap for anything else ...

FWIW, this is about where I'm at with the grip, too.

**ecj** · 10-31-2014, 04:36 PM

Somebody post a quick clip of something you're having trouble with, and I'll see if I can play it with Benson picking and post a vid to show what I'm doing.

**AlainJazz** · 10-31-2014, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Groyniad

try moving the top of the pick closer to the headstock. tilt the pick towards the headstock - so the tip of the pick is closer to the bridge than the long-edge top of the pick. this can be really boring stuff to try to specify verbally - but its the simplest physical modification and it has an immediate effect. it softens the sound - makes it easier to brush rather than to strike the strings - and will make it much less likely that you'll have any problems holding onto the little flucker.

i think that as one moves from strumming to single note lines one stops tilting the pick in this way - or tilts it less - and this enables you to 'dig in' to the strings more (in the way you will want to for single note playing).

i've been spending most of my time working on the transition between (fast) strumming and line-playing - and this tilting thing has become a major theme. it makes a huge difference to the amount of control you feel you have over the guitar's 'output' - and it seems obvious to me that you need it to open up the fast strumming aspect of this right hand technique.

Hi Groyniad, it would be great if you had a picture of what you mean. I'm having a hard time visualizing it. Do you think you could post a picture? Thanks very much for your help.

**ecj** · 11-01-2014, 07:33 PM

Alain - check this out and see if it works for you. I think the strumming motion has more to do with making sure the pick is "brushing" the strings rather than driving through them. I'm sure it's different if you have 0.09s on and are doing the rock thing, but I use 0.14s and can't drive the pick back and forth through the strings without dropping the pick. Even if I can hang on, it sounds pretty awful. Here's my solution:

destinytot · 11-01-2014, 08:01 PM

I seem do be strumming in the opposite way to what Groyniad's doing, too. I point the tip - i.e. the picking end - towards the headstock. (I'm writing at 1am from the computer in the office of the restaurant where I do a weekly solo gig. I'd like to add that I value this conversation very highly indeed. Thanks everyone for making it happen.

)

PS I'll add a video tomorrow.

**AlainJazz** · 11-02-2014, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by ecj

Alain - check this out and see if it works for you. I think the strumming motion has more to do with making sure the pick is "brushing" the strings rather than driving through them. I'm sure it's different if you have 0.09s on and are doing the rock thing, but I use 0.14s and can't drive the pick back and forth through the strings without dropping the pick. Even if I can hang on, it sounds pretty awful. Here's my solution:

Thanks so much ECJ, I've been doing it basically the way you showed with one exception. The strumming was coming from the wrist rather than the elbow. I'm going to try what you showed because it obviously works for you. When I do it the way I've been doing it until now, I can strum totally fine for a little while. Even complex faster rhythms are fine. When the rhythm continues for prolonged period, the pick slips out of my hand, or the angle isn't quite right. I think your tip with the middle finger might help there. Thanks again.