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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Question 4, concerning sharp pick tips, tip thicknesses, and pick size.

    Since changing to this technique some 20 years ago, I have always used a Fender Medium pick. They're cheap and every music store carries them. I've never felt the need to change to something else because this pick seemed to cover all the bases for me. It's big enough for me to have a decent grip on it and the point is sharp enough to give definition to the notes. Being a medium it has some give in it which helps with this technique. With a traditional grip I always used a heavy pick and tried everything under the sun trying to find "the" pick that was going to make the difference. After changing to the Benson technique, it became much less about the pick.

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe View Post
    Since changing to this technique some 20 years ago, I have always used a Fender Medium pick. They're cheap and every music store carries them. I've never felt the need to change to something else because this pick seemed to cover all the bases for me. It's big enough for me to have a decent grip on it and the point is sharp enough to give definition to the notes. Being a medium it has some give in it which helps with this technique. With a traditional grip I always used a heavy pick and tried everything under the sun trying to find "the" pick that was going to make the difference. After changing to the Benson technique, it became much less about the pick.
    I might be happier with a Medium too. That Pro-Plec is 1.5 mm and that just seems to thick for this. And you're right---everybody sells Fender Mediums! I'll go buy some tomorrow and give 'em a whirl. Thanks again for all your input. I do appreciate you taking the time and sharing your expertise.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  4. #53

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    Another quick question (sans video): I noticed this morning that when I play this way, sometimes my fingernail (index finger) hits the string the same time my pick does. Does that happen to anyone else? What does it mean?

    Thanks.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Another quick question (sans video): I noticed this morning that when I play this way, sometimes my fingernail (index finger) hits the string the same time my pick does. Does that happen to anyone else? What does it mean?

    Thanks.
    If your index is hitting the string then perhaps there is not enough pick protruding down.

    It took me a while to figure out that the pick has to be protruding quite a bit more than I thought was sane.
    This will give you some flex and also make you concentrate on this one important thing:
    THAT IS:
    *It's the tip of your pick doing a lot of the work.*

    You should concentrate on it and see if you can deliberately play with the tip and blade.
    Really look at how much is showing and just how it is hitting the string.

    Experiment. Take it out further than you think. Till you think you might drop it. Then back a bit.
    That's how GB can do that insanely fast strumming. Because his pick is hanging out and flexing.

    Stop thinking that you have to have a lot of your thumb on the pick.
    I am only gripping the pick in the top corner with my thumb.

    I sound like a lunatic but this is something the JC Styles video really helped with.

    Others may disagree but please try it.

    Mark, I think there is too much point on that pick (Delrin). The Pro Pleck is out of the question. Way to thick and rounded.

    Get thee to a music store and get some Fender Mediums. Get the pick right first up.
    Keep at it!

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco View Post
    If your index is hitting the string then perhaps there is not enough pick protruding down.

    It took me a while to figure out that the pick has to be protruding quite a bit more than I thought was sane.
    This will give you some flex and also make you concentrate on this one important thing:
    THAT IS:
    *It's the tip of your pick doing a lot of the work.*


    Mark, I think there is too much point on that pick (Delrin). The Pro Pleck is out of the question. Way to thick and rounded.

    Get thee to a music store and get some Fender Mediums. Get the pick right first up.
    Keep at it!
    It's 9:57 AM here (South Florida, USA) and the local Guitar Center opens at 11. I'll be there for packets of Fender Mediums. (I sound like a junkie looking to meet my dealer: "I need the Mediums and I need 'em NOW.") Yeah the Pro-Plec is too sharp and the Pro-Plec is too thick and round. I'll get there.

    I'll stick the pick out further. It seems 'far out' now but I guess it's not hanging out enough yet. Thanks for the advice!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  7. #56

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    Benson Tech Q 5 (with video)

    Thumb motion, among other things.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  8. #57
    Mark! Just watching. You are holding the pick correctly at the start of the vid.....too much at 2.00! (according to me...and it looks lime GB to me)
    Ok DO NOT do that thumb movement thing. Some times I see GB do it but rarely.
    Your thumb is a rod holding the pick.

    You are so close.

    Now when you hold the pick do the tiny wrist shake. It's only a small movement.
    This sounds awful but imagine you have Parkinsons.....or a slight tremor in your hand.
    Your pinky is resting on the guard but don't even move it when you do this tremor.
    THAT'S the pick stroke.

    Man this is hard to describe.

    Keep pick at 45 degrees.
    Jeeez..... towards the end of the video you are getting close.
    Play slower.
    Watch the blade or tip and see that it is consistently hitting the same way.
    Bend your thumb like you did toward the end.

    Don't do that pinching/moving thing with the thumb.
    Do the tremor thing.

    You are real close Mark.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco View Post
    Mark! Just watching. You are holding the pick correctly at the start of the vid.....too much at 2.00! (according to me...and it looks lime GB to me)
    Ok DO NOT do that thumb movement thing. Some times I see GB do it but rarely.
    Your thumb is a rod holding the pick.

    You are so close.

    Now when you hold the pick do the tiny wrist shake. It's only a small movement.
    This sounds awful but imagine you have Parkinsons.....or a slight tremor in your hand.
    Your pinky is resting on the guard but don't even move it when you do this tremor.
    THAT'S the pick stroke.

    Man this is hard to describe.

    Keep pick at 45 degrees.
    Jeeez..... towards the end of the video you are getting close.
    Play slower.
    Watch the blade or tip and see that it is consistently hitting the same way.
    Bend your thumb like you did toward the end.

    Don't do that pinching/moving thing with the thumb.
    Do the tremor thing.

    You are real close Mark.
    Thanks, Philco. Glad I'm getting close. I think that thumb thing is something I've always done and probably why my picking has always been inconsistent. But NOW I get what you mean about "shaking" the pick. Stay tune for tomorrow's update... Meanwhile, thanks for this. It's great to be getting close because I've been so far away! Much work lies ahead but at least it will be work on getting something right rather than getting better at doing something wrong!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  10. #59

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    Mark,
    Start by just picking very slowly with only down strokes. Now every stroke should just "fall" down over the string you've picked and come to rest on the next string. The pick is held very loosely in your hand so as your pushing over the string you're picking you can feel the pick push away from your index finger. If you just practice this for a short while it should help. The key here is to play slowly. You're investigating the hand movement. The faster you go, the more you'll hide any imperfections.

    Mark Cally

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe View Post
    Mark,
    Start by just picking very slowly with only down strokes. Now every stroke should just "fall" down over the string you've picked and come to rest on the next string. The pick is held very loosely in your hand so as your pushing over the string you're picking you can feel the pick push away from your index finger. If you just practice this for a short while it should help. The key here is to play slowly. You're investigating the hand movement. The faster you go, the more you'll hide any imperfections.

    Mark Cally
    Thanks, Mark. I'll start that this afternoon. I just finished a practice session on this and am getting a handle on the unwanted thumb movement. I'll go with just downstrokes, slow, and focus on the feel of the pick crossing a string. Thanks so much for all your help!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  12. #61

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    I did a little bit of this slow picking from a players perspective camera angle. For evaluation, what do you guys think?

    And, to help folks trying to learn this.

    Note, based on my understanding, I made a mistake when playing the 3rd and 6th scale degree the first time, I shouldn't have lifted the pick. I should have just followed through. The second time with the alternating picking, I did it correctly on the 6th (the 3rd doesn't apply).

    Last edited by fep; 01-19-2013 at 12:30 PM.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  13. #62

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    Thanks, Frank. That helps. It's good to see it from that angle, as that's the angle I see when I'm playing.
    I'm eager to hear what Philco and Mark C. have to say.

    I love your guitar tone.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  14. #63

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    Philco, thanks! I have been out traveling and found this post on my arrival home late last night. I think it is the best presented attempt I have seen on the subject, which at least for me has been rather elusive. I sat and tried it for a couple of hours and to my great delight found it worked, at times at least. Cant really portray fully my thanks! All the best, 0zoro

  15. #64

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    Morning, guys. Another day, more practice, think it's getting better. Meanwhile, I have a question about the shoulder. How do you situate yours so there is no tension in it? Does your shoulder hang free when you play or is it pressed against the guitar somewhere?
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  16. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by 0zoro View Post
    Philco, thanks! I have been out traveling and found this post on my arrival home late last night. I think it is the best presented attempt I have seen on the subject, which at least for me has been rather elusive. I sat and tried it for a couple of hours and to my great delight found it worked, at times at least. Cant really portray fully my thanks! All the best, 0zoro
    Cool! I hope you get something out of it.

  17. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Thanks, Frank. That helps. It's good to see it from that angle, as that's the angle I see when I'm playing.
    I'm eager to hear what Philco and Mark C. have to say.

    I love your guitar tone.

    It looks right to me. Keeping in mind that there will be differences from player to player.

    Now comes a couple of months of patient practice.
    There will be breakthroughs and breakdowns.
    Eventually more of the former.

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco View Post

    Now comes a couple of months of patient practice.
    There will be breakthroughs and breakdowns.
    Eventually more of the former.
    I know this was addressed to Frank, but I'm wondering about the months of patient practice. I know they're required but, aside from slow exercises to start with, do you spend time going over licks you learned The Old Way and re-learn them, or learn new things the new way and gradually absorb the old stuff?
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    I know this was addressed to Frank, but I'm wondering about the months of patient practice. I know they're required but, aside from slow exercises to start with, do you spend time going over licks you learned The Old Way and re-learn them, or learn new things the new way and gradually absorb the old stuff?
    I video tape myself often and I still notice myself sometimes falling back towards my old way of picking. I think one needs to go cold turkey and adopt this as your technique and be vigilant and on the look out of falling back into old habits.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  20. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    I know this was addressed to Frank, but I'm wondering about the months of patient practice. I know they're required but, aside from slow exercises to start with, do you spend time going over licks you learned The Old Way and re-learn them, or learn new things the new way and gradually absorb the old stuff?
    Yeah I would definitely move everything over to this style.......eventually.
    Don't hammer yourself too much with the most complex things at first. Just take a few lines and work on them.
    Slowly is the way.

    I wasn't sure if I would be able to cover all the Pat Martino stuff I had learned over 20 years ago but it's actually easier with this style.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco View Post
    Yeah I would definitely move everything over to this style.......eventually.
    Don't hammer yourself too much with the most complex things at first. Just take a few lines and work on them.
    Slowly is the way.

    I wasn't sure if I would be able to cover all the Pat Martino stuff I had learned over 20 years ago but it's actually easier with this style.
    Good to hear. I could always play fast...sometimes. But I was maddeningly inconsistent. If the Benson technique is just more reliable for me, that would be reason enough to change. Of course, I hope I get faster too....
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    I did a little bit of this slow picking from a players perspective camera angle. For evaluation, what do you guys think?

    And, to help folks trying to learn this.

    Note, based on my understanding, I made a mistake when playing the 3rd and 6th scale degree the first time, I shouldn't have lifted the pick. I should have just followed through. The second time with the alternating picking, I did it correctly on the 6th (the 3rd doesn't apply).

    Hey Frank,
    That looks great, and yes, the first time you played it through with only downstrokes you shouldn't lift your pick if you're going to play that string anyway. Wasted motion.

    Mark

  23. #72

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    We haven't talked about comping: does that present any challenges I should be on guard against?
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  24. #73

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    Benson Tech Q 6: curled fingers, pressure points, and other "little things" that might make a big difference.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  25. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post


    Benson Tech Q 6: curled fingers, pressure points, and other "little things" that might make a big difference.
    Looking good Mark.
    Curling the fingers under is ok and you'll see GB do it sometimes. As long as you have the pinky resting where you do it's all good.
    There are some things worth messing with.
    • For a start I think you should start alternate picking practice across 2 or more strings and still include the down rest stroke and see how it feels.
    • Experiment a little more with your pick angle whilst doing this. I notice it's getting a little less angle.
    • Experiment with how far toward the front pickup you pick. You seem to be close to the rear pickup. You will get some tonal change the closer you move to the front pickup and some would say there is a "sweet spot" ......string tension wise that you will eventually find. That's a personal thing though.
    • I would favour gripping the pick toward the rear with your thumb......but that's just my preference.
    • Having your hand brush the bridge is fine and eventually you will be able to really control that and actually mute if you want.
    You will see that GB is all over/up and down that bridge so you can move quite a bit.

    Comping is great with this technique because once again you can use the free wrist movement for speed and the angle of the pick will deliver the big warm sound.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco View Post
    Looking good Mark.
    Curling the fingers under is ok and you'll see GB do it sometimes. As long as you have the pinky resting where you do it's all good.
    There are some things worth messing with.
    • For a start I think you should start alternate picking practice across 2 or more strings and still include the down rest stroke and see how it feels.
    • Experiment a little more with your pick angle whilst doing this. I notice it's getting a little less angle.
    • Experiment with how far toward the front pickup you pick. You seem to be close to the rear pickup. You will get some tonal change the closer you move to the front pickup and some would say there is a "sweet spot" ......string tension wise that you will eventually find. That's a personal thing though.
    • I would favour gripping the pick toward the rear with your thumb......but that's just my preference.
    • Having your hand brush the bridge is fine and eventually you will be able to really control that and actually mute if you want.
    You will see that GB is all over/up and down that bridge so you can move quite a bit.

    Comping is great with this technique because once again you can use the free wrist movement for speed and the angle of the pick will deliver the big warm sound.
    I noticed the angle change too. Sometimes it's a little steeper, though that's less common than before. It's more likely to flatten a bit, which we do not want. I'll keep a check on that.
    As for moving the hand forward, you shoulda seen me a month ago. My hand was so far forward, you could hear my pick occasionally tap the fingerboard. The movement back toward the bridge resulted from changing my arm's position on the rear bout. This (present) arm position seems better---it feels natural and consistent. All things being equal, I would rather pick nearer the fingerboard than the bridge.

    This raises another question. I'm long-waisted (or short-legged). When I sit down next to someone three inches taller, I will appear taller because all my height is in my torso, whereas most tall people are tall in the leg. So when I put the guitar on my right thigh, it's a good ways from the rest o' me. (I can't see the fingerboard at all, just the dots on the top side.) I normally wear a strap and have the guitar higher but I want it on my thigh (at least for now) because I want things to be consistent while I'm making this change. In that posture, getting back near the fingerboard would be, well, a stretch. (My arm used to come over the rear bout but not rest on it; now, the upper arm rests there and the lower arm--forearm---swings free, which seems good, but it only swings about as far as the bridge!

    More work to be done, that's for sure. Thanks for your input. I appreciate. I already notice that my playing is more consistent.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  27. #76

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    I always liked Benson's style, it's exciting in the way Django's style is exciting, but I listen to Wes more than either player because I like his lines better. Then again, I like about 20 or so horn players more than I like listening to Wes, and my aim with the guitar is to play any horn like line I wish to. One of my first transcriptions many years ago was Parker's Koko. t's moderately fast at around 308 bpm, but the challenge was in how to articulate his lines, not just barely get the notes out. This taught me a lot about how to personalize a hybrid picking technique as it broke all the rules I was initially shown, ie, strict alternate picking with down strokes for downbeats etc. Even something as simple as starting a downbeat on an upstroke (to expediate certain aspects of eco picking) took ages to "get".

    Which brings me to this discussion. While I can see how GB picking ( the short go I had at it) can get me to 360 bpm for long flowing 8ths, it also does away with the nuances my usual picking allows. All those Bird lines forced me to use every combination of pick direction, alternation, eco gliding, sweeping, slurring etc. GB picking makes me feel like I'm regressing to a form of angled alternate picking. Not knocking it, I can see that if you spent a lifetime at it you'd do a lot with it. But for me, I can also see there may be a lot you can't do with it, eg sounding like Cannonball Adderley's phrasing, or Jackie Maclean....

    So my question is: Do you guys disagree that the GB technique closes doors on certain possible nuances regarding dynamics, expression, articulation etc? Can you point to a GB picker that phrases like a horn player? (Not that many conventional pickers do )......

  28. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe View Post
    Hey Frank,
    That looks great, and yes, the first time you played it through with only downstrokes you shouldn't lift your pick if you're going to play that string anyway. Wasted motion.

    Mark
    Thanks for checking on this for me Mark (Cally). It's good that I did this and caught that I'm lifting the pick. I don't just down pick often, I think this is just a problem when I'm doing all down picks. Easy enough to fix.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    I always liked Benson's style, it's exciting in the way Django's style is exciting, but I listen to Wes more than either player because I like his lines better. Then again, I like about 20 or so horn players more than I like listening to Wes, and my aim with the guitar is to play any horn like line I wish to. One of my first transcriptions many years ago was Parker's Koko. t's moderately fast at around 308 bpm, but the challenge was in how to articulate his lines, not just barely get the notes out. This taught me a lot about how to personalize a hybrid picking technique as it broke all the rules I was initially shown, ie, strict alternate picking with down strokes for downbeats etc. Even something as simple as starting a downbeat on an upstroke (to expediate certain aspects of eco picking) took ages to "get".

    Which brings me to this discussion. While I can see how GB picking ( the short go I had at it) can get me to 360 bpm for long flowing 8ths, it also does away with the nuances my usual picking allows. All those Bird lines forced me to use every combination of pick direction, alternation, eco gliding, sweeping, slurring etc. GB picking makes me feel like I'm regressing to a form of angled alternate picking. Not knocking it, I can see that if you spent a lifetime at it you'd do a lot with it. But for me, I can also see there may be a lot you can't do with it, eg sounding like Cannonball Adderley's phrasing, or Jackie Maclean....

    So my question is: Do you guys disagree that the GB technique closes doors on certain possible nuances regarding dynamics, expression, articulation etc? Can you point to a GB picker that phrases like a horn player? (Not that many conventional pickers do )......
    I'm glad you asked this question because I was planning on it but haven't gotten around to it

    I've noticed with the little I have messed around with it (GBpicking) I could get going pretty quickly with no tension, but I couldn't articulate in anyway to get it to "sound right"...

    I've been doing a lot of transcribing of Jimmy Raney in the past month or so and have noticed I can't get anything close to tempo without employing everything under the sun also...(every combination of pick direction, alternation, eco gliding, sweeping, slurring etc.)

  30. #79

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    What is "eco gliding"? That phrase is new to me.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  31. #80

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    I play with horn players all the time... read through typical up tempo phrases with typical articulations referencing different instruments. I have no problem using different picking patterns... mixing and matching all types of picking, sweeps, ghost techniques. What ever's notated or implied. The only problems generally come from lack of technique more related with fingerings. Picking articulations should be able to be performed with either direction of picking.

    I would believe the lack of ability or technique to phrase how you want... would only be a problem if you don't have your picking technique developed... it's not instinctive. There's quite a difference between being able to phrase a line first time... as compared to being able to phrase a line with practice. If lots of practice is required... almost any technique can work, some need more practice time than others.

    Different technique is required when playing in different positions on the neck. That needs to be instinctive... you don't get to practice or rehearse when your playing.

    I kind of dig guitar phrasing. Philco's example was great, would dig hearing some tunes... more feel with longer examples to see his technique in real time... I would think it would work very well. As I've always said being able to play fast isn't just for playing burning lines... it gives feel to the slower lines.

  32. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    I always liked Benson's style, it's exciting in the way Django's style is exciting, but I listen to Wes more than either player because I like his lines better. Then again, I like about 20 or so horn players more than I like listening to Wes, and my aim with the guitar is to play any horn like line I wish to. One of my first transcriptions many years ago was Parker's Koko. t's moderately fast at around 308 bpm, but the challenge was in how to articulate his lines, not just barely get the notes out. This taught me a lot about how to personalize a hybrid picking technique as it broke all the rules I was initially shown, ie, strict alternate picking with down strokes for downbeats etc. Even something as simple as starting a downbeat on an upstroke (to expediate certain aspects of eco picking) took ages to "get".

    Which brings me to this discussion. While I can see how GB picking ( the short go I had at it) can get me to 360 bpm for long flowing 8ths, it also does away with the nuances my usual picking allows. All those Bird lines forced me to use every combination of pick direction, alternation, eco gliding, sweeping, slurring etc. GB picking makes me feel like I'm regressing to a form of angled alternate picking. Not knocking it, I can see that if you spent a lifetime at it you'd do a lot with it. But for me, I can also see there may be a lot you can't do with it, eg sounding like Cannonball Adderley's phrasing, or Jackie Maclean....

    So my question is: Do you guys disagree that the GB technique closes doors on certain possible nuances regarding dynamics, expression, articulation etc? Can you point to a GB picker that phrases like a horn player? (Not that many conventional pickers do )......

    We come from similar backgrounds. I spent much time working on Phil Woods solos, Cannonball Adderley, Dexter Gordon etc.
    When I started back playing a couple of years ago I immediately transcribed the 5 Parker takes of Billie's Bounce to get me back in the game so to speak. Plus I worked on the Benson version and an Andreas Oberg version. The Parker versions were technically the hardest to play.
    All that stuff is easier with this technique. Not to be glib or treat your concerns lightly but the technique is quite liberating and seems to only get stronger and stronger.

    But I have to reiterate that if anyone was having coordination problems with their old technique then this may help a little but it wont suddenly solve all those problems.
    I could play these lines before I changed over, but now I play them with ease and consistency. Something I always struggled with before.

  33. #82

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    hehe, just meant economy picking. When I do it right, it kinda feels like my pick is gliding, so...........

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco View Post
    We come from similar backgrounds. I spent much time working on Phil Woods solos, Cannonball Adderley, Dexter Gordon etc.
    When I started back playing a couple of years ago I immediately transcribed the 5 Parker takes of Billie's Bounce to get me back in the game so to speak. Plus I worked on the Benson version and an Andreas Oberg version. The Parker versions were technically the hardest to play.
    All that stuff is easier with this technique. Not to be glib or treat your concerns lightly but the technique is quite liberating and seems to only get stronger and stronger.

    But I have to reiterate that if anyone was having coordination problems with their old technique then this may help a little but it wont suddenly solve all those problems.
    I could play these lines before I changed over, but now I play them with ease and consistency. Something I always struggled with before.
    I'd be interested to hear your example of Parker lines using GB.

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    While I can see how GB picking ( the short go I had at it) can get me to 360 bpm for long flowing 8ths,..
    Yikes... I could practice for the rest of my life and have spent a lot of time already... I don't think I could close to that. All I can think is we are wired differently.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  36. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet View Post
    I'd be interested to hear your example of Parker lines using GB.
    Sure thing. I'll include some in the next video. I seem to remember them being more of a challenge for the left hand than the right.

  37. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Yikes... I could practice for the rest of my life and have spent a lot of time already... I don't think I could close to that. All I can think is we are wired differently.
    Pretty sure Philco's examples are up around there. There are plenty cats who like burning at that tempo, I suppose if you can play consecutive notes just on the one string that fast then you have the "twitch reflex" or whatever it is, to play across all the strings at that tempo. It's definitely easier to do with GB, and I kinda like the clicky sound, but with my conventional method, my pick angles every which way according to what I need it to do, so it would take me too long to undo all that I think.... Besides, 300 - 320 is plenty for me! If anything I'm trying to sound better at slower tempos, my left hand finds slower tempos harder because of the different muscles required for things like slow slurs, and my right hand tends to rush things like sweeps. Too much practicing at quick tempos!

  38. #87

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    PP ever tried playing at tempos under 50/40bpm? without doing double-time? It's a trip! Drink a pot of coffee and give it a whirl. I heard Brad Mehldau will, as an exercise, run through tunes at 10bpm.
    Oh, hi - if interested, I post a lot of playing/practice clips at www.instagram.com/JakeEstner

  39. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeAcci View Post
    PP ever tried playing at tempos under 50/40bpm? without doing double-time? It's a trip! Drink a pot of coffee and give it a whirl. I heard Brad Mehldau will, as an exercise, run through tunes at 10bpm.
    Yeah Jake, I have and it's m-u-r-d-e-r ...... dunno if coffee is gonna help, makes me too impatient!

  40. #89

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    Was playing around with this last nite, contemplating the jump to doing it full time and wanted to see if I have it close in terms of execution.


    I guess the most important thing is to have the pick almost perpendicular to the string to minimize the distance the pick would need to travel??


    The video is the same line played 2x, 1st with how I would normally pick (almost parallel to strings) and the second is my attempt at the GB technique....


    It actually doesn't feel that strange, and I do like the way it has some internal bounce, that's if I'm doing semi correct....



  41. #90

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    The hand position is all wrong. You should look back at some of the videos posted by myself, Philco and Fep to see how the pick is held and the position of the hand. I try to explain it in detail in my video. You'll find it in this thread in post #28.

  42. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by setemupjoe View Post
    The hand position is all wrong. You should look back at some of the videos posted by myself, Philco and Fep to see how the pick is held and the position of the hand. I try to explain it in detail in my video. You'll find it in this thread in post #28.
    Cool Thanks I'll look a little closer

  43. #92

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    For anyone with an hour and half to spare, I found this youtube video someone put together with a plethora of Benson live shows, much of this stuff I haven't seen elsewhere. If you want to get a good look at his right hand, this is a great video to watch.


  44. #93
    I did a little slow mo of this. Check out how much pick is hanging out beyond his thumb.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4g1dtmu3ly...ick%20Hand.mov

    You can also see that the pick angle isn't that acute.

  45. #94
    Check out the "overhang"

    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-imoviescreensnapz004-jpg

    Angle shot. Fairly acute but it seems to change a lot.
    Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo-imoviescreensnapz005-jpg

  46. #95
    Great shot of JC Stylles Right hand. The angle is clear.


  47. #96
    Hey guys...some really nice and clear shots of Benson´s right hand & articulations here:





    And lot's to watch & learn from this 70's version:


    Last edited by nunocpinto; 04-20-2013 at 12:07 PM.

  48. #97

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    Does anyone here play with Benson picking on a Tele? I'm trying to learn it but by my pickup selector gets in the way when set on the neck pickup, which it pretty much always is.

  49. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by kofblz View Post
    Does anyone here play with Benson picking on a Tele? I'm trying to learn it but by my pickup selector gets in the way when set on the neck pickup, which it pretty much always is.
    Yes I had the exact same problem when I had a Tele.
    Solution… Have your tech rewire the switch in reverse so the back position selects the front pickup.
    This puts the switch out of the way of the picking hand.

    I had to change it back when I sold the guitar.

  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philco View Post
    Yes I had the exact same problem when I had a Tele.
    Solution… Have your tech rewire the switch in reverse so the back position selects the front pickup.
    This puts the switch out of the way of the picking hand.

    I had to change it back when I sold the guitar.
    Thanks, I wonder if I could do this myself. I think I'll open it up and have a look.

  51. #100

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    When I'm using this technique my pick contacts the strings on the side of the pick, more of a brush stoke. To get an even fatter sound more of the side of the pick is "brushed" on the string. It sounds pretty good to my ear and definitely fattens the tone tremendously. Is that how you guys see it?

    One thing about this technique that I am convinced of, if you look at Wes's thumb technique and compare it to Benson's, there are some striking similarities. Basically I believe the tecniques Benson has allows him to achieve a similar tone using a pick, but if you actually look at their hands in action you will see what I mean. What do I mean? Remove the pick from you hand while you are using the Benson technique. Now play with your thumb. Of course you no longer have to have the first finger touching your thumb, but if you do you can still achieve the fat Wes tone. If you try to do this same technique with "normal" pick technique your thumb is no longer in the optimal position for "fattness". I believe this is not a coincidence.