Are you into Charlie Christian?

**princeplanet** · 03-19-2012, 12:40 PM

...... then tell me, for someone like myself who has finally made my way back to discover this genius, would it be fair to say that his playing in '41 was of more interest than in earlier years?
And if so, were his extended jam dates more revealing than his studio dates? So which dates, the Minton's dates seem like they have Charlie at his peak, such great lines?

If I just studied those for a while, would I be missing much from elsewhere?

**M-ster** · 03-19-2012, 01:14 PM

Interesting questions. I hope to see some responses.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-19-2012, 01:20 PM

I celebrate the man's entire catalog.

(Office Space quotes aside, the stuff he did with Benny Goodman is just as good as the later jam-y stuff. Plus, it's nice to hear how he played changes, a lot of the live recordings are blues tunes....which are great too)

CC...the man...maybe the most important guitar player of all time.

**NSJ** · 03-19-2012, 01:45 PM

A few years ago, a company in Spain (Andorra?) put out two 4 CD sets (total of 8 CDs)--

Complete Studio Recordings
Complete Live Recordings

I bought both of them. Now these are Expensive (O/P?), but can be found.

Charlie Christian - Complete Studio Recordings CD Album

The Live box looks to be no longer available.

Charlie Christian - Complete Live Recordings CD Album

What strikes me is the utter fluidity of his lines and the impeccable groove land swing he brings forth.

Django is one in a million, of course. But only jazz guitarists seem to know that there is another one from that generation who is also one in a million. A pity he was never more known. It's still really a "jazz guitarist's thing".

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 03-19-2012, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Django is one in a million, of course. But only jazz guitarists seem to know that there is another one from that generation who is also one in a million. A pity he was never more known. It's still really a "jazz guitarist's thing".

Could be worse. Our galaxy hasn't produced a supernova visible from the Earth since 1609, when one was witnessed by Johannes Kepler.

**alanh** · 03-19-2012, 03:01 PM

The Mintons tracks I have are great if you only listen to CC,piano bass and drums (Kenny Clark) the trumpet player on most of the tracks sets my teeth on edge , he was called Joe Guy, there a track called "Guy's got to go" says it all

. I don't find much difference in CC's playing through his short recording career .To me he had it nailed in 1939 .

Alan

**oldane** · 03-19-2012, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by alanh

.... the trumpet player on most of the tracks sets my teeth on edge , he was called Joe Guy, there a track called "Guy's got to go" says it all

.

I feel the same about his playing. BTW, Joe Guy was Billie Holidays husband for some years during the 1940s. He's said to be the one who turned her on smack - with the well known consequenses the rest of her life. Maybe that also spills over to my negative view of his playing.

The pianist on those Minton tracks was Thelonius Monk who had not yet fully developed his characteristic style.

**Solo Flight** · 03-19-2012, 04:17 PM

I like the box set that came out a few years ago that includes some studio outtakes with some back and forth discussion between Benny and the guys, although you have to crank up the volume to hear what they're saying. Charlie's playing on each of those takes seemed effortless.

**CarolM** · 03-19-2012, 04:25 PM

I listen to a lot of swing while working out, so almost every day i hear Flying Home, A Smooth One, Rose Room, and Airmail Special. I love the whole story of Hammond taking him to audition with Goodman in LA, and how they ended up doing Rose Room for 45 minutes.

I'd like to get the CD of him at Minton's but if Joe Guy is on it uh I dunno...

**monk** · 03-19-2012, 07:37 PM

I'm with Mr. B. I have all the Goodman sides, the Minton's stuff, the live radio transcriptions, the Carnegie Hall concert and the Edmond Hall sides. There is something to be learned from every note the man played.

**cosmic gumbo** · 03-20-2012, 12:38 AM

It's all good, and very important vocabulary for all jazz soloists, not just guitarists. A very valuable contributor to the whole idiom as we know it.

**alanh** · 03-20-2012, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by oldane

I feel the same about his playing. BTW, Joe Guy was Billie Holidays husband for some years during the 1940s. He's said to be the one who turned her on smack - with the well known consequenses the rest of her life. Maybe that also spills over to my negative view of his playing.

The pianist on those Minton tracks was Thelonius Monk who had not yet fully developed his characteristic style.

Thanks Oldane
I didn't know that Guy was married to Billie Holliday,you learn something new every day .I have been unsure about Monk on the Mintons tracks because he sounded so different to his later style but I have a Herb Ellis CD with a young Stan Getz as a sides man ;he sounded more like Leister Young than himself then.

Alan

**CarolM** · 03-20-2012, 08:24 AM

So, which are the best recent CDs that you can actually get at a reasonable price? Does anyone have "Genius of the Electric Guitar"? "Selected Broadcasts etc"? Is "After Hours" the one plagued with Joe Guy?

**alanh** · 03-20-2012, 09:51 AM

Have a look on Amazon there are loads of tracks on the mp3 downloads section ,most of which are labled accuratly .I have one track featuring Bird and Diz which has a small guitar solo which I suspect is by Mundel Lowe not CC unfortunatly I can't remember which it is

(age related )
and I can't check because I'm at work. You can usually pick out the infamous Guy infested tracks as the personell is listed.The downloads are cheaper than a CD and I can burn a CD via an itunes playlist on my Mac so I suppose you could do the same on a PC .
Alan

**mr. beaumont** · 03-20-2012, 09:56 AM

Genius of Electric Guitar and the Benny Goodman Sextet featuring Charlie Christian both feature great sound and stellar playing.

**FatJeff** · 03-20-2012, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by CarolM

So, which are the best recent CDs that you can actually get at a reasonable price? Does anyone have "Genius of the Electric Guitar"? "Selected Broadcasts etc"? Is "After Hours" the one plagued with Joe Guy?

I have the Genius of the Electric Guitar CD, as well as a box set I picked up used that basically has all his contributions to the Benny Goodman orchestra. He's just an amazing player. I've transcribed 3 or 4 of his tunes...quite educational when you think of his lines in terms of chord shapes. The one tune you MUST transcribe is "Ad Lib Blues." Not only the CC solo, but the accompanying Lester Young and Buck Clayton solos!!

Also, have you guys seen this? (ebook) Charlie Christian Legend of the Jazz Guitar

Nuff Said · 03-20-2012, 12:22 PM

I've got most of the CC records, there aren't that many. The Live at "Upstairs at Minton's Play House" is great Historic record, the birth of Bop, with a guitarist at the birth, CC could have been the Father, we don't know without testing the DNA of Bop. I know Parker, Monk and Dizzy are usually credited.

Nuff

**princeplanet** · 03-20-2012, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Nuff Said

I've got most of the CC records, there aren't that many. The Live at "Upstairs at Minton's Play House" is great Historic record, the birth of Bop, with a guitarist at the birth, CC could have been the Father, we don't know without testing the DNA of Bop. I know Parker, Monk and Dizzy are usually credited.

Nuff

What was the claim based on? I hear the occasional b9 and even the odd #5 in his lines as well as the upper extensions, but was he really the first to be using these ideas? What about Lester, or Lionel Hampton? I don't hear Christian's direct influence on the boppers, but I certainly hear the influence on late Django era as well as the western swing and rockabilly guys.

Nuff Said · 03-20-2012, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

What was the claim based on? I hear the occasional b9 and even the odd #5 in his lines as well as the upper extensions, but was he really the first to be using these ideas? What about Lester, or Lionel Hampton? I don't hear Christian's direct influence on the boppers, but I certainly hear the influence on late Django era as well as the western swing and rockabilly guys.

Kenny Clarke claimed that "Epistrophy" and "Rhythm-a-ning" were Charlie Christian compositions that Christian played with Clarke and Thelonious Monk at Minton's jam sessions.

Nuff

**MarcJ** · 03-25-2012, 06:07 PM

I've been listening to Charlie Christian The Genius of the Electric Guitar lately. I've also got the Wolf Marshall book and have been learning some of his solos. I really dig his playing and I admire him for what he accomplished in his short career.

**AndyV** · 04-01-2012, 07:58 PM

Amazon.com: Genius of the Electric Guitar: Charlie Christian: Music

Well worth it. It's hard to imagine how revolutionary CC's records must have sounded at the time ... when that fluid, horn-like guitar exploded from that wall of big band sound. Sure there was Hawaiian steel and western swing and a few earlier electric players on records (like George Barnes) but nobody quite like Charlie. Everyone from Wes, Tal, Barney to Eldon Shamblin to Chuck Berry paid attention to those records. In some ways, despite 70 years or so gone by he still sounds revolutionary.

**Flyin' Brian** · 04-01-2012, 09:11 PM

I also have the "Genius" box set and it's a gem.

An unintended gift that we got from Charlie was that Wes started out by learning and playing all of his solos while developing his own thing.

**RyanM** · 04-01-2012, 11:01 PM

Here's a site with a bunch of Charlie Christian transcriptions,
TRANSCRIPTIONS

Here's probably his most famous solo, Topsy (or Swing to Bop as its sometimes called):
Topsy