Larry Carlton

**rayme330** · 03-08-2011, 12:08 PM

I notice whilst browsing through the forums that Larry Carlton does not seem to get many mentions. Why is that?
Is he not rated as a jazz player by the jazz playing community?
If so what genre would he come under?

**patskywriter** · 03-08-2011, 12:11 PM

i think he's good—i remember when he used to play with the crusaders. other than that, i don't think about him much. i don't have any his albums. i'm sure there are others on this forum who know more about his work.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-08-2011, 12:38 PM

He's a great player, although some of what he does leans way too close to the "instrumental R&B" of smooth jazz for my tastes. But I recently learned "Bubble Shuffle" with a student, and while I think the overall sound of the recording is pretty cheesy, the tune is a blast to play.

I'd classify much of what he does as fusion, and a lot of it is pretty smooth, which aren't the big ticket item around here--we got boppers, swingers, avant-garders, and all points in between, but not too many in the ranks have fusion/smooth jazz at the top of their listening choices...

That's not a bad thing, mind you, just different.

**jeffstritt** · 03-08-2011, 02:39 PM

Larry Carlton is a great player, just kind of, "Diet Coke." If you know what I mean. I really don't think about him as a jazz player. He played some really nice rhythm guitar parts on some of Michael Jackson's stuff along with Phil Upchurch though.

**MarkRhodes** · 03-08-2011, 05:14 PM

I liked some of Carlton's work with the Crusaders but my favorite work of his was with Steely Dan. The "Kid Charlemagne" solo is great. I also love his playing on "Don't Take Me Alive." Hell, he's all over "The Royal Scam" and that's a killer guitar album. It ain't jazz but so what? Great guitar is not limited to jazz.

I always thought of him as a studio player rather than a jazz player. (Did he ever call himself a jazz player?) He's a top-notch player with a killer tone.

**jbear** · 03-09-2011, 02:01 AM

I LOVE his playing but a lot of the tunes...are just smooth jazz...ugggh! He is so good that I can actually wade through the groove-oriented pablum just to hear him play because, man...that cat can flat out play!
Find the YouTube clip of him playing Wes's Four on Six with Rit. Both of those guys totally tear it up on that tune! Seriously...it's worth finding. I think it's two parts and Larry's on the second part.

**max chill** · 03-09-2011, 03:03 AM

Larry is a money player. If it paid top dollar, he would prbably be one of the best jazz guitarists in the world.

**Jazzpunk** · 03-09-2011, 03:10 AM

I have a couple DVD's of his that I really enjoy. One is with Robben Ford and one is with his Sapphire Blues Band. His playing is top notch on both!

He sounds great on his Truefire lessons as well. It's nice hearing him in such a stripped down environment.

**newsense** · 03-09-2011, 04:36 AM

I have a number of Larry's albums. However, I find the studio albums always disapoint -despite one or two signature, riff-based tunes, he can't really write well enough to sustain my interest in a studio-based setting, no matter how good the playing.

On the other hand, his live albums are at the other end of the spectrum; fantastic - particularly the "duet" ones with Steve Lukather (in Osaka) and Robben Ford (in Tokyo). Last Nite is also worth a listen, where he tackles both So What and All Blues in a live club setting. He is clealry at his best when playing other people's material or as sessionist (no need to mention Steely Dan again - oops, I did).

**rayme330** · 03-09-2011, 05:27 AM

Vary interesting replies to my original post. The consensus seems to be that he is regarded as a great player but not neccessarily as a jazz guitarist.
Perhaps as markerhodes commented in his reply"It ain't jazz but so what? Great guitar is not limited to jazz."
Suffice to say that although he seems not to be on the surface of jazz consciousness, when mentioned he evokes generous opinions.

**Flyin' Brian** · 03-09-2011, 06:54 AM

Fabulous player. Excellent blues player. Kid Charlemagne with Steely Dan is one of the best rock solos of all time, and his work with The Crusaders was amazing. Not a jazz player, and when he gets with jazz players he kind of flops.

He was on a video called A Tribute to Tal Farlow, and when he's with Tal (even with Tal way beyond his best), Larry Coryell, Scofield and Abercrombie he falls pretty short.

However when he's doing his own thing he can play some amazing ideas.

And he can play the blues!! (here with Robben Ford)

**whiskywheels** · 03-09-2011, 08:09 AM

Larry Carlton, aka Mr. ES335. Brilliant. A true session player, though I can't say I've heard any solo albums yet, but imagine he's got more to offer when he's 'sitting in' with Donaly Fagin etc. etc.

**Beaner** · 03-09-2011, 12:08 PM

I've seen Larry live before. Though I admit that I don't care for a lot of the soft jazz thing he does, the man can play jazz! I've seen him bust out the arch top for some chord melody stuff that was great..I've also heard him dig into some blues that REALLY blew my mind, though again, you rarely hear that on his records. I would agree that his name doesn't conjure up memories of maybe that great Jazzers', but to dismiss him in that genre is in my opinion a mistake.

**musicjohnny** · 03-09-2011, 12:51 PM

Like many others on here, I think he's such a great player, a blues man over anything else for sure. I consider him more of a studio cat over any kind of genre - great teacher too.

**fep** · 03-09-2011, 02:36 PM

I'm a big fan of Larry Carlton. I've probably seen him in concert maybe 15 times.

Sometime around 1975, I got to see both Carlton and Ritenour play clubs in hollywood. Those two and Benson were the ones that inspired me to take up the guitar.

**wolflen** · 03-09-2011, 02:43 PM

he is one of the best players...he has done thousands of sessions and has played with the best.and the best have played with him..yes he can play mainstream jazz..(he studied with joe pass) listen to him on stanley clarks live album..

while he is heard on "soft jazz" stations..so what..he playing is top notch...

wolf

**fep** · 03-09-2011, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian

However when he's doing his own thing he can play some amazing ideas.

That is some of my favorite guitar playing. I use to have that album on vinyl. His outside playing seems to make so much sense that it almost doesn't seem outside.

I like his Steely Dan playing too, but to me it doesn't compare to this. I think the longer solos allow him to construct a much more interesting solo.

**nyc chaz** · 11-21-2023, 01:50 PM

Larry is the best electric guitar player i have heard in my lifetime.It seems that because he is versatile that it is viewed as some kind of detriment.Larry can play bebop and blues as good as anyone you can mention.He made a bunch of smooth jazz albums but that is why now in his later years he can relax on his nice big ranch in Nashville.There was this guy named Wes who also did commercial albums but i never see anyone casting shade on him for doing that.I've been lucky enough to see Larry 8 times and each concert was different and covered a wide gamut of styles.My favorite was the tour he did with Steve Lukather,just phenomenal playing by both guys.

**jameslovestal** · 11-21-2023, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by nyc chaz

Larry is the best electric guitar player i have heard in my lifetime.It seems that because he is versatile that it is viewed as some kind of detriment.Larry can play bebop and blues as good as anyone you can mention.He made a bunch of smooth jazz albums but that is why now in his later years he can relax on his nice big ranch in Nashville.There was this guy named Wes who also did commercial albums but i never see anyone casting shade on him for doing that.I've been lucky enough to see Larry 8 times and each concert was different and covered a wide gamut of styles.My favorite was the tour he did with Steve Lukather,just phenomenal playing by both guys.

There has been criticism of Wes and his so called "commercial" albums. I have done so. E.g. Bumpin stinks, IMO.

As for Carlton: I can't recall the last time I have listened to him (decades ago), and that was likely what he did with Steely Dan.

I view him similar to Lee Ritenour, but Lee did put out some jazz influenced albums (e.g. the tribute to Wes).

Hey, even Howard Roberts did an album for Concord, called The Real Howard Roberts.

**Doug B** · 11-21-2023, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by rayme330

I notice whilst browsing through the forums that Larry Carlton does not seem to get many mentions. Why is that?
Is he not rated as a jazz player by the jazz playing community?
If so what genre would he come under?

Larry made it big as a studio player in LA. He then went out on his own playing easy listening pop type "jazz" It's pleasant music, but very unmemorable. Good player though.

**Doug B** · 11-21-2023, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

I always thought of him as a studio player rather than a jazz player. (Did he ever call himself a jazz player?) He's a top-notch player with a killer tone.

A lot like Lee Ritenour (sp)

**Gitfiddler** · 11-21-2023, 08:41 PM

And speaking of Lee Ritenour...I love the Larry and Lee project they did several years back.

**starjasmine** · 11-21-2023, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

A lot like Lee Ritenour (sp)

It's the other way around. When Larry was dominating the studio scene in the early 70s, pretty much inventing the LA studio fusion style of electric playing, "the kid" coming up through the ranks was Rit.

**nyc chaz** · 11-22-2023, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by jameslovestal

There has been criticism of Wes and his so called "commercial" albums. I have done so. E.g. Bumpin stinks, IMO.

As for Carlton: I can't recall the last time I have listened to him (decades ago), and that was likely what he did with Steely Dan.

I view him similar to Lee Ritenour, but Lee did put out some jazz influenced albums (e.g. the tribute to Wes).

Hey, even Howard Roberts did an album for Concord, called The Real Howard Roberts.

Larry with Steely Dan was like 50 years ago,if you haven't listened to him since then it seems like it would be hard to criticize his playing.I love Wes playing Bumpin,if jazz artists tried to be more accessible at times, maybe jazz would sell more than one percent of sales in today's market.

**Doctor Jeff** · 11-22-2023, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by jameslovestal

There has been criticism of Wes and his so called "commercial" albums. I have done so. E.g. Bumpin stinks, IMO.

As for Carlton: I can't recall the last time I have listened to him (decades ago), and that was likely what he did with Steely Dan.

I view him similar to Lee Ritenour, but Lee did put out some jazz influenced albums (e.g. the tribute to Wes).

Hey, even Howard Roberts did an album for Concord, called The Real Howard Roberts.

Originally Posted by nyc chaz

Larry with Steely Dan was like 50 years ago,if you haven't listened to him since then it seems like it would be hard to criticize his playing.I love Wes playing Bumpin,if jazz artists tried to be more accessible at times, maybe jazz would sell more than one percent of sales in today's market.

I'm not a huge fan of Wes's poppy stuff, nor Carlton's or Ritenour's, but I love Bumpin'. I think it's the only Wes album I actually own.

Speaking of Ritenour, he has put out some decent stuff recently where he plays pretty old-school.