What's Some Good Fusion?

**KingCrimson250** · 12-28-2010, 02:41 AM

Hey, I'm looking to pick up some good fusion albums, but what I'm looking for is somewhat specific.

Basically, I feel as though what little fusion I've heard is kind of like rock music done with jazz instruments. What I'm looking for is the opposite - the breakneck tempos and harmonic depth of bop, but done in a rock setting, if that makes sense.

Any ideas?

EDIT: This probably (maybe?) should be in the Getting Started forum, my apologies.

**cosmic gumbo** · 12-28-2010, 03:05 AM

The right Mike Stern or Scott Henderson might fit that bill. They both can rock the jazz pretty hard.

**ksjazzguitar** · 12-28-2010, 03:26 AM

Brecker Brothers would be good.

Peace,
Kevin

**virtuoso** · 12-28-2010, 04:15 AM

Miles Davis!

**KingCrimson250** · 12-29-2010, 06:49 PM

Thanks for the help! I'll check those out. Any good starting points vis a vis albums?

Virtuoso: Which Miles are you talking about? I've got Bitches Brew, and while I love it it's not what I'm looking for specifically. Right now I've got an itch for some straight up rock-bop. That's probably not a technical term but I think it more or less conveys what I'm looking for.

Baltar Hornbeek · 12-29-2010, 07:21 PM

I'm sure you've checked into Bill Bruford's stuff, maybe try his album Gradually Going Tornado. Or, One Of A Kind

**Robertkoa** · 12-30-2010, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by KingCrimson250

Hey, I'm looking to pick up some good fusion albums, but what I'm looking for is somewhat specific.

Basically, I feel as though what little fusion I've heard is kind of like rock music done with jazz instruments. What I'm looking for is the opposite - the breakneck tempos and harmonic depth of bop, but done in a rock setting, if that makes sense.

Any ideas?

EDIT: This probably (maybe?) should be in the Getting Started forum, my apologies.

Years ago in the eighties there was LOTS of Jazz in the Miami area and I by coincidence moved to Miami right across from the UM Music School- so I was trying to use Jazz Concepts ( harmonically ) to help me write "harmonically Expanded " Rock or R@B, but didn't learn "standards" or anything.

To this day - my favorite " Fusion " of all time is Steely Dan and I write in that style but with more rhythm guitar holding the tracks together except it's more rhythmic ( and I'm not a musical genius like Becker/ Fagen ) but I think lots of people will like it, especially the Rhythms and voicings. (Product out in late 2011. )

I've always been surprised that more of the Steely Dan type style "fusion" didn't emerge.

Anyway I once bought the Brecker Brothers album(cassette) called "Heavy Metal Bebop " and actually thought it was going to be like the title ! Which would have been cool- but not that easy to achieve.

The main problem with "Fusion" was/is IMO that it's not "fused" enough.

Another example of "Fused" Fusion is some of Stevie Wonder's stuff like "Too High" and a few tracks from " Traffic" and the great Buffalo/ NYC group " Raven" who kind of sounded like a cross between a great Organ Trio plus a guitarist and great singer and "The Cream " -even before Cream emerged.

Anyway- I asked a similar question about Fusion on another thread-kind of hard to find.

I used to listen in the eighties to a series of Larry Carlton albums that had great tones and solos which were kind of fusion but the Rhythm Tracks were a little "Tame", or mellow...

Eric Johnson's track - " I Remember Wes " sounds like "Fusion" to me and there's even a Hendrix track where he's trading with a sax player ( "Rainy Day, Dream Away" ) where if they kept the groove and went into a minor key and through some changes and back- would be cool Fusion.

"Take Five" by Brubeck is great fusion- a great solid groove, a melody you can remember and Rhythmically AND harmonically expanded.

I'm surprised that there's not more going on or maybe just not well known ?

I think " Fusion" and bebop and music in general that stray too far from identifiable rhythms ( of whatever culture they are in ) tend to develop less and are less popular because in the end most audiences won't want to hear it, so rhythm is important, whether it's Swing, African,Toccatas, Fugues,Minuets, Blues, Rock,Arabic, Indian , Latin, so if the Fusion doesn't groove or at least swing,( i.e. make the audience want to MOVE ) maybe it dies.

I think some of the shreddier, more musical Metal guitarists will start doing some of what you're talking about, once someone paves the way.......and the Berklee and GIT grads.

**cosmic gumbo** · 01-01-2011, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by KingCrimson250

Virtuoso: Which Miles are you talking about? I've got Bitches Brew, and while I love it it's not what I'm looking for specifically. Right now I've got an itch for some straight up rock-bop. That's probably not a technical term but I think it more or less conveys what I'm looking for.

You might check out Miles' "A Tribute to Jack Johnson", which some music critics called the worlds best rock band.

Drummer Billy Cobham has been responsible for lots of great fusion recordings with incredible lineups of players.

**Stackabones** · 01-01-2011, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Robertkoa

I've always been surprised that more of the Steely Dan type style "fusion" didn't emerge.

That's an interesting observation. Perhaps fusion's lack of engagement with vocalists/songwriters is one of the reasons this never developed?

**mr. beaumont** · 01-01-2011, 01:37 PM

I'd be surprised if there weren't plenty who tried and just flat out failed.

Steely Dan = amazing in the Mr. B. book.

**Bailz** · 01-01-2011, 02:07 PM

steely dan are absolutely awesome! every album is brilliant.

what about allan holdsworth?

**patskywriter** · 01-01-2011, 06:49 PM

i'm not good at defining musical genres—but, how 'bout yes, emerson lake & palmer, jeff beck, king crimson, early lee ritenour ... ?

**jayx123** · 01-02-2011, 01:52 AM

Check out UZEB an awesome Canadian group

**bkdavidson** · 01-02-2011, 02:32 AM

If you're looking for breakneck playing, Frank Gambale could be worth checking out. Also, some of the Return to Forever stuff can get pretty wild. There's also The Chick Corea Elektrik Band. If you like one you'll probably like all three, since there's some shared members there. I'd also second CG with the whole Mike Stern thing.

**sgreb** · 01-02-2011, 07:16 PM

I just thought of the perfect album. Marc Johnson's "Bass Dersires" (ECM) . It features Scofield and Frisell back in the 80's. They do some great originals as well as a ripping version of Coltrane's "Resolutuion". Marc Johnson on bass and Peter Erskine on drums. Beware of Sco's 80's chorus laden sound and Frisell experimenting with a Roland GR-300 guitar synth (same one Metheny uses)... but just a great recording!!

**sgreb** · 01-02-2011, 07:32 PM

How about Paul Motian and The Electric Bebop Band? Some albums have up to 3 guitarists on them. Kurt Rosenwinkel, Brad Shepik, Wolfgang Muthspiel, Steve Cardenas, Ben Monder, and Jakob Bro have all been in the band at one point or another

**newsense** · 01-04-2011, 06:43 PM

I guess my reference point for jazz-rock fusion has always been John McLaughlin, originally in the Mahavishnu Orchestra phase, but also with his more recent albums - e.g. Industrial Zen.

Is that the sort of thing you are looking for KC250 ?

BTW - I have never considered Steely Dan to be fusion - jazz inflected rock (and more lately funk) is probably a better classification. Nevertheless, Becker and Fagan are truly awesome, in both the original Dan and their more recent incarnation. I was lucky enough to see them on their UK tour in 1973 and have been a fan ever since.
Due to their rare visits to the UK we have to turn to a more than half decent tribute band - "Nearly Dan" - for live shows. All UK Dan fans should check them out (YouTube) - they give great musical performances of Steely Dan songs, but with none of the cheesy visual impersonations you get from most tribute bands.

**Sandro** · 01-04-2011, 06:51 PM

Yellowjackets
Passport
Weather Report
Jeff Lorber Fusion

**Bertrand tB** · 01-08-2011, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by jayx123

Check out UZEB an awesome Canadian group

+ 1

**Bertrand tB** · 01-08-2011, 11:59 AM

Some nice fusion is played by METRO (Chuck Loeb-Wolfgang Hafner)
Some virtuoso by CAB (Dennis Chambers, Bunny Brunell, Tony Mc Alpine)
(TS I can recommend you to listen to CAB)

**Hugh Walter Jennings** · 01-08-2011, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by bkdavidson

If you're looking for breakneck playing, Frank Gambale could be worth checking out. Also, some of the Return to Forever stuff can get pretty wild. There's also The Chick Corea Elektrik Band. If you like one you'll probably like all three, since there's some shared members there. I'd also second CG with the whole Mike Stern thing.

like this ?

**timski** · 01-10-2011, 01:00 PM

For something along the lines of 'bebop played by rock musicians' the closest I can think of is John McLaughlin, particularly the 1st two Mahavishnu Orchestra albums and his late 70s efforts 'Electric Guitarist' and 'Electric Dreams' (both excellent).
Another that would perhaps be close is 'Hymn of the 7th Galaxy' by Return to Forever (Bill Connors on gtr). Larry Carlton's self-titled 1st solo album is very cheesy in places, but contains some tasty examples of high-octane soloing using jazzy scales (e.g. 'Point It Up')
I'm not familiar with any 'fusion' after the 1970s as it all went a bit naff IMO (Yellkowjackets and the like).
I'm pretty ignorant as regard to John Scofield, but I imagine some of his stuff would fit the bill - maybe others here who know his output can point you in the right direction.