Pat Metheny solo

**pingu** · 08-25-2024, 06:11 PM

is there a better solo of Pats
than the one on ‘Have you heard’ ?
(off the ‘Letter from home’ album)

it’s fairly incredible

**Peter C** · 08-28-2024, 06:10 PM

Insensatez / How Insensitive ? Knocks me out every time.

**pingu** · 08-29-2024, 06:21 AM

thanks !

**lawson-stone** · 08-29-2024, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by pingu

is there a better solo of Pats
than the one on ‘Have you heard’ ?
(off the ‘Letter from home’ album)

it’s fairly incredible

I'd have a hard time imagining any better solo by almost anyone than that one. The whole tune is stunning and the solo is magisterial.

**pingu** · 08-30-2024, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I'd have a hard time imagining any better solo by almost anyone than that one. The whole tune is stunning and the solo is magisterial.

I heard it for the first time the other day
and had to pick my chin off the floor

Maaan , I’d love some of those chops

**lawson-stone** · 08-30-2024, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by pingu

I heard it for the first time the other day
and had to pick my chin off the floor

Maaan , I’d love some of those chops

And seriously, in the solo section, it's just Cm blues with a bridge. A very straightforward form and he makes it sound and feel like the most sophisticated thing you every heard in your life, which it actually kinda... IS the most sophisticated thing.

**Christian Miller** · 09-01-2024, 05:38 AM

Probably not a single take … apparently Pat tends to splice things together a lot on record so what you are hearing is most likely the refined combination of several takes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Peter C** · 09-01-2024, 07:30 AM

Live performance of Have You Heard. Absolutely beautiful and inspiring.

**frabarmus** · 09-01-2024, 09:46 AM

One of Pat's strengths, imo, is his taste for melodic lines that have a singing quality to them... which is brought out even more when he solos on the guitar synth, where long, sustained notes are available... (his sophisticated chops are still there BTW)

**jbear** · 09-01-2024, 04:29 PM

Multiple takes and edits? Have you seen this guy play live? He does the same amazing stuff on stage...and never the same twice...at least the half dozen times I've seen him over the years. I'd add See the World and Third Wind to the list.

**Christian Miller** · 09-01-2024, 05:02 PM

[QUOTE=jbear;1357265]Multiple takes and edits? Have you seen this guy play live? [QUOTE]

Yes I have.

He does the same amazing stuff on stage...and never the same twice...at least the half dozen times I've seen him over the years. I'd add See the World and Third Wind to the list.

Both of these things can be simultaneously true you know? It’s interesting that you should take that as a slight against his musicianship. It’s simply a fact. I mean if you like the result does it matter?

Pat likes to exercise a… particularly high level of control? … over his recordings. Very finicky and exacting, and that includes piecing together his solos from multiple takes. Drove Gary Burton up the wall, haha.

It’s a level of perfectionism we might associate more with rock/pop recordings where the studio itself becomes a key instrument. And this makes sense as this is the generation he’s from.

Those records are not simply a take of the live band in studio … and because of that I feel it’s a different animal to that perfect solo on so and so classic jazz disc.

I think it does matter for me on some level. For this reason I personally tend to prefer Pat in a sideman role, also the ECM stuff (which he was dissatisfied with because Manfred Eicher specifies that ECM always has to be done in two days, one to record, one to mix.)

I like it when he’s just being a jazz guitarist I guess. The PMG stuff always seems a bit overcooked to me, but I’m also aware that I’m probably in a minority haha. But I like it when he lets loose a bit and to my ears he does that a bit more on other people’s dates etc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**jbear** · 09-01-2024, 05:43 PM

Valid take.

**pauln** · 09-01-2024, 06:30 PM

Wonderful, but just watching the way he
holds his pick, my right hand feels funny.

**lawson-stone** · 09-02-2024, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by pauln

Wonderful, but just watching the way he
holds his pick, my right hand feels funny.

Is it a variant of Benson picking?

**pauln** · 09-02-2024, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Is it a variant of Benson picking?

I think it is a little like Benson picking as far as the hand position, but I don't think it is intentional to be like B's; it looks like M uses thumb and two fingers to hold a large rounded triangular pick so that his hand rotates a little more palm up than usual thumb and finger...
The thing that strikes me the most is the amount of pick sticking out (looks like about a half inch!). Yet his control, articulation, speed, etc. sounds flawless.

It also sounds like he does not use rest strokes?

**Peter C** · 09-03-2024, 05:34 AM

In case you don't know, when Pat Metheny started out he could only get skinny picks at his local store and developed a way of holding them to make them feel stiffer. (Wes, on the other hand, used his thumb to practise softly while his family slept and would otherwise probably have used a pick like everyone else).

I'm sticking with Fender extra heavies and a bit of thumb when I feel like it (or get handed a guitar unexpectedly).

**jbromusic** · 09-04-2024, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

Probably not a single take … apparently Pat tends to splice things together a lot on record so what you are hearing is most likely the refined combination of several takes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep. He does that on his live albums as well. I don't think it's a big deal though because he's making a record (just like The Beatles and Steely Dan did) and wants it to stand the test of time and live up to his high standards. Most of us have seen him live and know that he's one of the GOATS.

**Cunamara** · 09-04-2024, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Is it a variant of Benson picking?

In an interview many moons ago, he stated that he holds the pick between his thumb and index/middle fingers, flexing it a little bit. This is a Fender light gauge, or was at the time; he also noted he picked with the shoulder of the pick rather than the point.

Someone else pointed out that it doesn’t sound like he uses rest strokes. I don’t think he does and frankly, I don’t think most people do except maybe in gypsy jazz. After people on the Internet preached about the importance of rest strokes at me I tried, but it’s just a damned awkward way to pick a string in my opinion. Does not feel natural at all.

I think the picks he uses, the particular way in which he holds it and uses the shoulder has a lot to do with the sound that he gets. I have also noted that in more recent interviews, such as his interview with Rick Beato, his right hand technique has changed over the years and it looks more conventional now than it did in the late 1970s/early 80s.

His left hand technique used to look rather peculiar, as well, with his thumb way over the edge of the fingerboard and aligned almost with his ring finger; that too looks a bit more conventional now. I used to think that he played great in spite of his technique rather than because of it.