The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I've been listening to these two guys back to back for the last few weeks and am going to court controversy and await a tirade of abuse by stating my conclusion:
    George Benson was better than Wes Montgomery.

    I say 'was' in regard to GB as, IMO, he stopped playing jazz guitar properly in the mid 1970s.
    Clearly GB was not as influential as WM, and it is widely acknowledged that WM was GB's main influence but after listening to GB's playing on the likes of 'It's Uptown', 'Beyond The Blue Horizon', 'Giblet Gravy' and 'Bad Benson' I am of the opinion that he fully absorbed what WM had done but then took it to the next level and made it clearly his own.

    Plus he had the best jazz tone of all time: the perfect mixture of punchiness, glassiness and warmth. Always delightfully clean but with that 'edge' when he really dug in.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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  4. #3

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    Define the criteria you used to come to this decision.

    Speed? Note choice? Did one swing/groove more than the other? Harmonic inventivness?

    You mentioned what GB albums you used but what did you listen to for WM? Do you listen to them playing the same tunes?

    BTW, I think that Benson himself might take you to task on this point. I somehow don't picture GB as thinking in terms of who's better than who and I believe he has respect for many players (like Johnny Smith ex.)

  5. #4

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    jeez, man, if you wanna start a fight, just say somethin' 'bout my mama.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    That was funny!

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by timski
    That was funny!
    It's an internet cliche. It saves on writing, "let me just pull up a chair and watch as the rest of you go at it, hammer and tongs".

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW400
    Define the criteria you used to come to this decision.

    Speed? Note choice? Did one swing/groove more than the other? Harmonic inventivness?

    You mentioned what GB albums you used but what did you listen to for WM? Do you listen to them playing the same tunes?

    BTW, I think that Benson himself might take you to task on this point. I somehow don't picture GB as thinking in terms of who's better than who and I believe he has respect for many players (like Johnny Smith ex.)
    Apologies but I don't know how to break up the quote to answer each bit separately.
    1st answer re criteria - all of the above
    2nd re albums - Incredible Jazz Guitar, Dynamic New Sound, Full House, Smokin At The Half Note, Boss Guitar, So Much Guitar. I fI've missed out any key Wes albums please educate me (I admit I've never heard the Live in Paris album).
    3rd - never heard them play same tunes, but would love to. Any recommendations?
    Finally, I'm sure you're completely right in your last paragraph.

  9. #8

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    Your fundamental premise is void.

    Two musicians at the the level these guys achieved can
    not be compared using the term "better", except in terms
    of any given individual's (yours, for instance) personal preference.

    Those who don't understand that music isn't primarily a
    competition (it can be, again, for the uninformed) involve
    themselves in this silliness. Yeah, I'm in a snarky mood,
    so I responded to this. I am correct nonetheless.

    Music is about sharing; sports is about 'besting.'

  10. #9

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    To the OP, your conclusion might better be stated, "I think that George Benson is better than Wes Montgomery".

    Then I can say, "I respectfully and totally disagree with you."

  11. #10
    jeffstocksmusic Guest
    I am not sure I can trust a man who would don a white sport coat while roller skating.



  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian329
    To the OP, your conclusion might better be stated, "I think that George Benson is better than Wes Montgomery".

    Then I can say, "I respectfully and totally disagree with you."
    Or perhaps the OP could've said "I like GB better than WM".

  13. #12

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    Actually, the OP is wrong. Chocolate cake is way the hell better than vanilla.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff
    Actually, the OP is wrong. Chocolate cake is way the hell better than vanilla.

    Especially German Choclate cake if I can get a vote

  15. #14

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    I find German chocolate cake much too stern.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff
    I find German chocolate cake much too stern.
    Ok,I will bite. I think without a doubt GB is better. Really, in every way. However, without Wes, I don't think we would have GB. Clearly, this is highly subjective.

  17. #16

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    Wes Montgomery was rumored to be quite self conscious about his playing, George Benson was not. If George Benson wanted to improve his playing (if he cared), who would he look up to ? I would suggest Bireli Lagrene. BL is a guitar/music savant. There is really nothing he cannot play (including Jacoesque bass and violin).

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by medblues
    Bireli Lagrene. BL is a guitar/music savant. There is really nothing he cannot play ).
    you mean, except for blues.

  19. #18

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    Hello everyone, I'm new here, but have to weigh in on this one. First of all, the idea of George vs. Wes is a bit subjective. Personally, I prefer Wes, but GB runs a close second. I really liked Wes' arrangements with horns and strings, such as are found on " A day in the life." Anyone remember that album? I still have the old, worn out copy of it that I had as a teenager. By the same token, I completely wore out "Weekend in La" by Benson. I saw George live in 1980. Put on a great show. Wish I could have seen Wes. He played smooth as silk.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by medblues
    Wes Montgomery was rumored to be quite self conscious about his playing, George Benson was not. If George Benson wanted to improve his playing (if he cared), who would he look up to ? I would suggest Bireli Lagrene. BL is a guitar/music savant. There is really nothing he cannot play (including Jacoesque bass and violin).
    Nasty things, rumors. Watch any of the videos of Wes on YouTube. Relaxed, smiling. That's not a man who is self-conscious about his playing. Wes played on several occasions with John Coltrane and turned down an offer to join Trane's band. Hardly the behavior of a self-conscious man.

    It's well documented that Wes was uncomfortable with not being able to read music but that's certainly not the same as being self conscious about his playing.

    At this stage of his life, Benson probably doesn't need to look up to anyone. He need only look within. However, if we assume that GB does require external inspiration; there are, as always, plenty of horn & piano players to draw from.

    Regards,
    monk

  21. #20

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    The flashy GB from the 60-70's is as about as exciting as jazz guitar gets, but flashy and exciting doesn't mean "better", does it? Wes was exciting at times too, no doubt, but his playing was always perfectly satisfying in a tasteful way that cannot always be said for GB, nor any other guitar player in my opinion.
    That said they are both my favorite guitarists and will prefer to listen to one or the other depending on my mood. It's like comparing Picasso to Monet, or Hemingway to Fitzgerald, you may prefer one over the other, but you'd look foolish trying to convince others that one is "better" according to your own narrow criteria. Whatever blows your hair back, man.

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    you mean, except for blues.
    yeah.

    this is general but I don't care how good a player is if he/she can't play the "other side of the tracks" dirty blues stuff ( jazz guys).I never seem to pay too much attention to them.

    they tend to sound academic and lack the real life experience.there are exceptions of course.

  23. #22

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    I am glad my deliberately provocative title and OP ('opening paragraph', I presume?) has elicited some reaction, which was its original intent.

    I wonder if some of the responses suggesting I rephrased using 'I think' or 'I prefer' would have occurred had I opened with 'Wes Montgomery is better than George Benson'; a far more popular and less controversial statement (at least on this forum)...

    In fact, I suspect if that had been my title then this thread would have been completely overlooked by most people, including the likes of those who support the notion that stating that one player is better than another is a premise which is 'void' or can only be expressed in terms which are wholly subjective.

  24. #23

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    OP= Original Poster

  25. #24

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    Thank you, monk.
    Still a bit ignorant of forum abbreviations...

  26. #25
    Baltar Hornbeek Guest
    This is some dull controversy, if I dare say