The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I was listening to the Tedeschi Trucks Band recording of Layla, with Trey Anastasio, and I was thinking, this is going to be what will happen to classic rock.

    Classic rock albums are going to enter the repertoire, just like a Mozart or Beethoven symphony. Young musicians are going to study these albums and attempt to recreate them sometimes note for note, sometimes with major changes or reinterpretations. There will probably be a Society for the Preservation of Classic Rock which will insist on performing all albums with period-perfect instruments.

    Of course there will be tribute bands after all the old farts die off, but talented pros will want to pay homage to the standard stuff, as well, as TTB did for an album that was very influential to them. (Derek Trucks is named after Derek and the Dominoes.)

    Probably in a few years Ed Sheeran will want to tackle Born to Run song for song, and Billie Eilish will rerecord Janis' Pearl album.

    The will be a Real Book for classic rock songs, and people will argue about whether it should be a Bm or Bm7 in that Led Zepp song.

    I mean, this stuff will never die. We'll be listening to it in the nursing home.

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  3. #2

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    Oh let's not forget holograms.

    But why have a hologram of some old person playing something, when you can have a fresh-faced kid doing the same thing? Maybe even performing it better??

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    Why listen to a remake when you can hear the real thing, which was an actual hit?

  5. #4

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    Come on up, the water will be fine once it all melts in the spring.
    Classic Albums Live |

  6. #5

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    Real music will always exist, but think about it.. ten years from now, an artificial intelligence Jimi Hendrix hologram bot touring and playing live, having Jimi's playing down to the note! It will happen!

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter
    Real music will always exist, but think about it.. ten years from now, an artificial intelligence Jimi Hendrix hologram bot touring and playing live, having Jimi's playing down to the note! It will happen!
    That doesn’t interest me in the least, but I am very interested to see how Derek Trucks handles Duane’s guitar parts.

    Kind of like listening to Miles or Coltrane take on some standard or song by Ellington.

  8. #7

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    Will classic rock outlive the boomer generation? Most popular genres fade away gently as the generation that created them ages and then shuffles off this mortal coil. But maybe classic rock will survive; Ted Gioia's latest suggests it might – old songs now represent seventy percent of the US music market:

    I saw it myself last week at a retail store, where the youngster at the cash register was singing along with Sting on “Message in a Bottle” (a hit from 1979) as it blasted on the radio. A few days earlier, I had a similar experience at a local diner, where the entire staff was under thirty but every song more than forty years old. I asked my server: “Why are you playing this old music?” She looked at me in surprise before answering: “Oh, I like these songs.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    I'm not so sure ... Elvis is more of less forgotten, isn't he? ... I can't remember the last time I heard him being played. Kinda amazing since it's only 20 years since a remix of his "Little less conversation" topped the charts.


    Elvis is rooted in the 50s ... Stuff rooted in the 70s might well suffer the same fate, once your generation starts dwindling


    Have you seen this one dating back to 2017?
    Can’t help falling in price: why Elvis memorabilia is plummeting in value | Elvis Presley | The Guardian
    Maybe, my appreciation for Elvis as a singer increases as I get on… but yeah as someone who didn’t write and basically acted as a bridge between white America and Black music his cultural significance probably won’t live up to other music. I don’t think blues, R&B and soul will ever lose appeal, but what gets remembered may be different to what was popular at the time.

    Who now aside from experts remembers the music of Paisello, Durante and Salieri, all massively popular in their day (as much if not more so than Mozart)? Or later still composers like Joseph Holbrooke (the ‘Cockney Wagner’)?

    I’m interested to know what popular stars of jazz have fallen by the wayside. I felt that musicians like Bobby Hackett, Bunny Berrigan, John Kirby, Frankie Trumbauer etc (who influenced variously Miles, Prez, Brownie, Dizzy etc) of the while not obscure are generally known by specialists and enthusiasts of pre war jazz. Jim Hall wrote a tribute ‘Why Not Dance?’ to Jimmie Lunceford, whose band may have been the greatest of the swing dance orchestras, now I doubt many listen to his music. Which is a shame IMO.

    Andy Kirk’s clouds of joy with Mary Lou? The Kansas City sound? Good god I sound like an old man haha.

    The jazz school canon preserves but also selects, too. That’s a separate thing I guess.

    For instance - A jazz guitar teacher at a major London conservatoire once said he had no idea who Oscar Moore was…. I think he must have been very well known in the 40s due to his association with Nat Cole? Anyway….

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Yeah .. I mentioned Elvis cause he's gone from Icon to mostly forgotten in a very short time and then there is that Guardian article.


    But it's basically like with Classical music .. A few select composers amount for almost all classical concerts. And within these composers it's only a small percentange of their lives works that is getting played ...


    We will see if the Beatles or Led Zeppelin will be remembered fondly or whether they will be forgotten. I guess the amounts that old artists sell of their catalogues might be an indication. Seems the record companies believe in Dylan and Springsteen, while less for in something like ZZ Top (500 million dollars vs. 50 million)


    I dunno ... I'm certain that something is going to be conserved, but question is what and to what degree.


    I have an 11 year old and a 13 year old that both share the same music teacher in school. Both where made to sit thru the first episode of Get Back while he entusiastically and very emotionally talked them thru it.

    Both came home and complained about it .. They hated it



    Tldr;
    I'm sure select artists or songs are going to live forever, but only very few
    Oh god I’m not surprised.

  11. #10

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    He should have had them watch the original movie. That's just a poor move on the teachers part, the new documentary is too much for someone who isn't a fan.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    The jazz school canon preserves but also selects, too. That’s a separate thing I guess.
    Great quote. Of course that’s true. Same with classical. Some people “forgotten” get remembered again as time goes by.

    What hit home to me was that we boomers have always been into “authenticity”, which pretty much means real musicians who played on the records playing real instruments live. Even if half the members die or leave the group, if there’s still a core—Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Grateful Dead—we’ll go see them until the nursing home won’t let us out anymore.

    But now I think that’s changed. So many performers aren’t around, or performing at a reasonable level, and the younger generation isn’t much into that absolute authenticity anyway.

    The Allman Brothers are a good example. No one left from the original group (except Jaimoe) who plays anymore. Derek Trucks and Warren Haynes came in and now carry the torch, along with Gregg and Dickey’s sons. So there is a connection, but it’s not the same group that played Fillmore East. (Come to think of it, children of rock stars could have a very good career playing [mainly] music of their parents, and some have—Dweezil Zappa for instance.)

    And I think rock is finally creating a canon of music that can be studied and reperformed by new artists for our lifetimes anyway, and probably way beyond. The selling of the catalogues reflects this. It ain’t going away.

    Prepare to see ABB Live at the Fillmore East performed by the AB Heritage Group including several grandchildren, great nephews and grandchildren of groupies of the original band in 2050.

  13. #12

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    George Harrison hated it so much that he left the band… can‘t blame him, given the evidence..


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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    George Harrison hated it so much that he left the band… can‘t blame him, given the evidence..


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    Keeping a band together at any level is tough. When the stakes are a few extra bucks a week and maybe free beer, it's hard enough. When the stakes involve international notoriety and millions in what ever currency you can name, it is un-imaginable. The pressure destroys lives wholesale. Larcenous managers don't care - musicians themselves are just place-holders in a successful money-making scheme. If it can be packaged and sold at a profit - look out! "Devil take the hindmost, every man for himself" is the refrain.

  15. #14

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    The future of Rock is that it will be remember with love and passion by those who experienced it with love and passion. Music before recordings became an industry was very much a different thing. Music (as most of us in our society think of it) is not about music since at least the early 1950's, it is about the commercial industry that uses "music" to sell a disc or a digital download or a tee shirt. Much "music" now is given away with the trade off that in lieu of paying for the music, you will pay for a hat, tee shirt, etc.
    Of course there is great new rock, pop, country music out there, but it is not in the mainstream. You have to find it yourself, you won't get it from where we used to be exposed to it.

  16. #15

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    [QUOTE=Doctor Jeff;1174768]I was listening to the Tedeschi Trucks Band recording of Layla, with Trey Anastasio, and I was thinking, this is going to be what will happen to classic rock.

    Love Tedeschi Trucks. And, I think John Mayer is killing it with Dead and Company. And go listen to the Bros. Landreth. And, Larkin Poe.

  17. #16

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    I hate society but I actually don't hate pop music. There's the dichotomy of rootsy, real music vs produced or fake music or whatever. We're in the new age of everyone being a fake poser and that's how it is, so if you want rootsy music you won't find it in the mainstream anymore. However, I'm always able to find music I like somewhere. The Strokes album from 2020 blew my mind.

    My favorite is gritty stuff like this:
    Last edited by Jimmy Smith; 02-14-2022 at 04:03 PM.

  18. #17

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    And then you had legendary rootsy feels like this in the mainstream back then. Oh well, that's gone. We're studying jazz which is gone from the mainstream. That is still great.


  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    Keeping a band together at any level is tough. When the stakes are a few extra bucks a week and maybe free beer, it's hard enough. When the stakes involve international notoriety and millions in what ever currency you can name, it is un-imaginable. The pressure destroys lives wholesale. Larcenous managers don't care - musicians themselves are just place-holders in a successful money-making scheme. If it can be packaged and sold at a profit - look out! "Devil take the hindmost, every man for himself" is the refrain.
    Hi, C,
    Well said! However, the higher the level of musician . . . the easier it is to keep money-making groups intact. Classical and Jazz musicians of great talent rarely leave a group based on personality but rather the desire to "move on" artistically or when they become bored with the repertoire. However, three-chord druggies/alcoholics of popular genres are a different matter. I guess the Rolling Stones would be an exception.
    Marinero

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, C,
    Well said! However, the higher the level of musician . . . the easier it is to keep money-making groups intact. Classical and Jazz musicians of great talent rarely leave a group based on personality but rather the desire to "move on" artistically or when they become bored with the repertoire. However, three-chord druggies/alcoholics of popular genres are a different matter. I guess the Rolling Stones would be an exception.
    Marinero
    "life is change..how it differs from the rocks.." Jefferson Airplane

    Many long time pop/rock musical groups that have loyal followings may not even have one original member of the group ..to me these are not musical groups..they have become entertainment corporations..there are quite a few "groups" under the original name that play the set list of popular tunes..and still have a large fan base..it seems the fans dont seem to care
    who performs the work as long as it is close as possible to the recorded version and they can "sing along..and remember when.."

    and yes..the Rolling Stones indeed..two old men pushing 80..singing Satisfaction..and filling venues world wide..

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I mean, this stuff will never die.

    We'll be listening to it in the nursing home.
    I hope the first sentence turns out to be false.

    I’m afraid - for myself most of all - that the second sentence will be true. A decade on my back, connected to life support, listening to Neil Young, et al.? Shudder.

    The past 100 years, give or take a decade, has been the longest period of degeneration and degradation in Western music, art, and culture in over a millennia. There is nothing at present to indicate that we have reached the bottom of the descent; on the contrary, there seems to be no bottom in sight.

    What we call “Classic Rock”, which is an insult to the meaning of “classic”, played no small part in that degradation.

    The very best of the best rock songs - if “best” means anything at this depth - cannot be placed beside any random Bach fugue, Haydn quartet, Mozart aria, or Beethoven sonata without evincing the embarrassment, disgust, and shame we should but are no longer able to feel about the dismal state of our music and culture.

    There is no way to predict if or when Western music will regain its footing and begin to produce works worthy of veneration, contemplation, and preservation. Perhaps, as in earlier eras of rebirth, we will re-examine the distant past to find new inspiration for the future.

    Unfortunately, the mostly bad music of the past century had the good fortune of co-evolving with the rise of recording technology. We will probably never be rid of it, but perhaps in a couple of centuries any respectable person will be ashamed to admit they listen to it, much less enjoy and champion it.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by BickertRules
    I hope the first sentence turns out to be false.

    I’m afraid - for myself most of all - that the second sentence will be true. A decade on my back, connected to life support, listening to Neil Young, et al.? Shudder.

    The past 100 years, give or take a decade, has been the longest period of degeneration and degradation in Western music, art, and culture in over a millennia. There is nothing at present to indicate that we have reached the bottom of the descent; on the contrary, there seems to be no bottom in sight.
    Your timeline seems odd for someone posting under the name of a modern jazz guitarist who played a Fender Telecaster

    Anyway I feel music took a bad turn after about 1790 and jazz is one of the bright spots in that interminable period.

  23. #22

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    I dunno... "A lot of people like this, and have for a long time. It must be really bad!" What we call classical music was largely produced for elite audiences for specific purposes. Yet it continues to be listened to, perhaps by more people than ever before, via Public Radio, university radio, online, and so forth. This is side by side with contemporary music of all sorts, very little of it as unsophisticated as some think it to be. A modern Pop song represents a very great deal of art and craft. If it is so easy to do, and therefore of lesser worth, why not try it, and realize wealth beyond the dreams of avarice? The technical barriers to production have been greatly streamlined. A child could do it. Children are doing it.

    Have at it.

  24. #23

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    I’m not entirely convinced I’m on board with sonata form, actually. I think it’s ok provided it’s doesn’t get out of hand and suddenly it’s 45 minutes long and you’re still in the bowels of the first movement and I need to go to the loo. No call for that sort of thing.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I mean, this stuff will never die. We'll be listening to it in the nursing home.


    But will the nurses be listening to it?

    Classic rock might die with the generation for which it was created. Or it might live for ever, because we live in a digital present where past and future no longer have meaning, where almost every song from every era is available instantly. Classic rock was created by the music industry, which now scarcely exists. Rock music now is very different.




  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Your timeline seems odd for someone posting under the name of a modern jazz guitarist who played a Fender Telecaster

    Anyway I feel music took a bad turn after about 1790 and jazz is one of the bright spots in that interminable period.
    Unfortunately we don’t get to live in the culture we would prefer, but rather just do the best to flourish in the one we’re born to. Ed Bickert was a “bright spot”; Paul Desmond and Bill Evans even brighter. I’m not so sanguine about jazz as a genre, but there are a few artistic geniuses there.

    I won’t quibble about your date for the downturn, but we’re definitely still in it. Yes, there are bright spots - good moments - rare geniuses, but that doesn’t mean the cancer isn’t still growing - maybe gangrene is a better analogy - a slow rot.