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I probably heard them on the radio. Anyway, the college scene back then was the best (even though I was still at high school!)
Originally Posted by jbernstein91
I don't know what to say about the notion that prog was the exclusive domain of nerdy, sexless young males. Certainly not my experience as it was another GF who turned me on to King Crimson (and yet another to Tom Waits, by the way). Also, there are plenty of "burning" solos around with zero jazz content.
Yes Graham, Jan was the man in the 70s. I spent hours trying to figure out what he was playing in Moving Waves - what's this, a whole tone scale??
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11-22-2021 07:15 AM
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I just scanned the wiki article on prog rock and have even less confidence than before that I know what the term means and which artists it encompasses.
I used to think it meant rock music that drew on classical and folk sources (especially English and Celtic), emphasized instrument prowess, featured complicated arrangements, and had pompous lyrics and/or themes and/or lots of references to the British educational system. But Cream is not mentioned anywhere in the Wiki entries. I'm stumped.
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It’s simple. No Mellotrons on Cream records. Originally Posted by John A.
I think I read somewhere that Jack Bruce auditioned for King Crimson…is there anyone who DIDN’T audition for KC back in the day??
Bruce ended up playing with Robin Trower and McLaughlin and in a lot of prog-adjacent bands, so he’s definitely “prog-friendly”. Eric…not so much.
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The “problem” with prog was that it was extremely hard for a neophyte musician to play with any confidence. Oh OK, we all knew the chords to 21st Century Schizoid Man and the guitar parts for “Lucky Man” and the intro to From the Beginning and Roundabout.
But Lark’s Tongue? Siberian Khatru? Play the organ like Keith Emerson on Karn Evil 9? Ain’t gonna happen.
OTOH, prog was a gateway to complex instrumental music. The album Pictures at an Exhibition was the first time I had heard the Mussorgsky work. Tomita’s Firebird Suite was revelatory. And so I started buying classical records based on those works I knew from prog, and branched out from there.
And jazz…well a fellow prog rat who was/is an incredible pianist and guitarist told me to buy Chick Corea’s My Spanish Heart and RTF Romantic Warrior. Wow. More scales dropped from my eyes. From there it was a short jaunt to John McLaughlin and Mahavishnu, Miles’ Bitches Brew, Coryell and Abercrombie’s fusion flights, Jean-Luc Ponty, featuring Allen Holdsworth on guitar, and that new guitar player on the scene who didn’t sound like the 1950’s, Pat Metheny.
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Has anyone tried one of these?
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Really? Focus? I grew up with 'live at the rainbow'. I saw Jan Akkerman live very often. He was great during that period.
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Strikes me as the thing I buy that's pretty cool but I use it three times and then get too lazy to plug it in again. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Yes I was intrigued by that pedal but knew I would never use it enough to justify it.
Instead I found a free VST plugin sampled from an actual mellotron which I was able to plug into Band in a Box and generate some decent mellotron pads.
Not sure what I’ll do with it though, as I am not about to record my prog-rock magnum opus!
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Big fan of Yes, Genesis (both of them), Rush, but also bands like The Dixie Dregs, UK as mentioned already, early Dream Theater, and a lot of the earlier fusion stuff from Al D as well. If it gets me tapping my foot or reaching for a guitar it's fine by me. But I also saw The Ramones about 100 times so there's that... Shoe horning bands into categories is really just for radio stations, IMHO.
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Radio stations and bored kids. Ever seen the movie Diner or High Fidelity? Originally Posted by jim777
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Rush
Yes
KC
ELP
Genesis
for me
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Actual strings, double bass drums, tubular bells, and Pete Brown lyrics more than compensate. And what could be more prog than "Pressed Rat and Warthog"? Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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The death of prog…
I was a prog rat for about 6 years, 1974-80. I never actually got to see any shows by my idols…a bit too young for concerts, at least according to my parental units. The only shows I saw before I left Chattanooga for Atlanta in 1979 were Jimmy Buffet and the Allman Brothers. Hey, the Allmans were almost prog, right?
By that point I had eclectic tastes but still thought the sun rose and set on ELP and Yes, though their recent albums were putting that idea to the test. The late output of these bands was pretty lame. King Crimson was on hiatus. Todd Rundgren had gone New Wave.
My first roommate in college was a dyed-in-the-wool deadhead with about 200 concert tapes. I got a bit of an appreciation for GD, but it didn’t stick at the time, in part because my roommate was a douche. I later moved in with another guy who was more heavy metal. He played, among other things, Rainbow and Pink Floyd incessantly.
My buddies were into more current trends, and I started listening to stuff considered “New Wave”—Elvis Costello, Nick Lowe, etc. One day a friend of mine asked if I had heard of Brian Eno. I had heard the name…he had contributed to a Genesis record, and I vaguely knew of Roxy Music. I went out and bought his album with Robert Fripp, Evening Star. It is a collection of ambient pieces, with Fripp using his famous Frippertronics.
I listened to it a half dozen times, or so, but it never really hit me until…I was in a friend’s room and we put it on. Under the influence of some herbal enhancement, I had a full-on synesthetic experience. I “heard” colors. I had never heard music like that before, and frankly rarely since then.
I bought all of Eno’s solo records, and rapidly moved into the rarefied world of art rock, mainly featuring artists orbiting around the twin suns of Eno and Fripp. I got into David Bowie big time, and my Zappaphilia and jazzophilia deepened immensely. Meanwhile, I was discovering the joys of shorter, cleverer songs, i.e., power pop.
Old-fashioned prog—dark, dense, complex, esoteric—seemed anachronistic for the ‘80’s. What was so funny about peace, love and understanding? The future was so bright I had to wear shades.
Tarkus? Siberian Khatru? What was that stuff? A distant memory…Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 11-23-2021 at 02:53 PM.
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Jeff Beck's Blow by Blow album is what ended my listening of prog-rock. I went from that album to George Benson's Body Talk, then it was jazz from then on. This was at the same time I was making the switch from albums to CDs; so I gave away all my non-jazz albums (which was 95% of my collection) and purchased jazz CDs. Never again did I purchase a non-jazz CD. (I did make copies of Beatles, Kinks and a few other bands I loved in my 20s).
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A bit like me. I was bored with rock in general, but I didn’t like much fusion stuff. I thought Blow by Blow was great, then I heard Jeff’s version of ‘Goodbye Porkpie Hat’ (on the album ‘Wired’). I loved the tune so much I went straight out and bought the Mingus album with it (Mingus Ah Hum). From there I got more and more into jazz. Originally Posted by jameslovestal
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I heard Fripp do his Frippertronics in the pre-digital age.
Small auditorium, two reel to reel tape players on long tables about 10 feet apart with tape running from one to the other.
Fripp would get up and move one machine closer or farther from the other between songs(!) to create the proper loop time.
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Beck's version of Goodbye Porkpie Hat was also a major influence for me since that lead me to Mingus and that lead me to the trio recording of Red Norvo, Tal Farlow and Mingus. That lead me to Jimmy Raney's work with Norvo and eventually to the rest of the 50s jazz musicians. Originally Posted by grahambop
PS: The last thing I did with regards to prog-rock was to take a bunch of the YES recordings put them on a reel-to-reel tape deck and remove as much of the vocals as possible (I lived with a jazz musician that had a nice set-up). I ended up with around 90 minutes of music and transferred that to a cassette tape. This tape became very popular in my circle.
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LOL! Jon Anderson's RLIV (ridiculous lyrics/irritating voice) quotient is off the charts, rivaled only by Geddy Lee, who is one of the funniest looking women I've ever seen. Originally Posted by jameslovestal
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How many of you replying/opining here have actually played prog? Just wondering.
You know that it's prog when you're playing it (rather like jazz, I suppose), so sorry to say Wikipedia definitions are unlikely to clarify much. I was intensely involved as a teen in two different projects until the genre/movement's demise in 1975 (in the UK, which is what counts
), by which time Thijs van Leer and Jan Akkerman apparently weren't talking, Rick Wakeman had left Yes and Peter Gabriel was outta Genesis. The last audition I went to in London (Kensington IIRC, the posh part) was a guy saying that he was "into prog" in his Melody Maker "wanted" ad and turned out to be a kind of Roxy Music fanboy. To this nightmare of Glam rock, the final bludgeon blow of Punk was added. I soon after sold my guitar in disgust and didn't play again seriously for years. It was very depressing, actually not kidding at all.
Cream could never be prog because of the lead guitarist's role. Traffic (Steve Winwood), now that's something quite different.
The EHX pedal is going to make you a prog rocker? Cool, Imma get me an accordion and become an instant Polka phenom.
My little demos below are probably more prog than anything else, but I certainly learnt a lot of useful chords by listening to jazz.Last edited by Peter C; 11-24-2021 at 06:25 AM.
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I spent many hours as a teenager trying to play solos by Jan Akkerman and Steve Howe (and later on, Hendrix). Didn’t really master them but I guess I got some benefit out of it!
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
That book by Weigel "The Rise and Fall of Prog", goes into painful detail about Prog's death, but he sees hope in a few of the current day bands.
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We Boomers had to have "Gateway Music" to lead us to the truth. I went to a Black Sabbath concert at the Fillmore East, and opening for them was If. Originally Posted by grahambop
That was the end of my prog/rock days. As soon as I heard Terry Smith and Dick Morrissey, that was it.
The only quote I ever heard from DM was, ""Charlie Parker is a genius. That's just the way it is!" But they were both Melody Maker Jazz Poll winners.
Terry Smith used to beat out John McLaughlin in the jazz poll, until Mahavishnu came along.
Larry Coryell was another one. In his autobiography, he admits that he wasn't hip to jazz until way later in his career. Before that, he was just playing a kind of modal jazz, sometimes called "Hippie Jazz".
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
It's hard to believe, but Ambrosia started out as a Prog band! What a talented bunch of MF's, especially their lead vocalist, David something.
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David Pack. Originally Posted by sgcim
Bruce Hornsby played with Ambrosia for a few years before he hit it big. It was his birthday yesterday, BTW—wish him a happy year.
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Prog Scorpions
prog Judas Priest
and are Maiden’s longer tunes like Rime of the Ancient Mariner prog?
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