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  1. #1

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    Start at 40:00 of this video (I find it all very fascinating FWIW).

    Herbie Hancock said, "This young man is incredible".

    Last edited by fep; 08-15-2021 at 12:43 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Talking harmony with Hancock:


  4. #3

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    This young man is insufferable.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    This young man is insufferable.
    I thought it was just me! There is something about him that make me want to smack him with a wet sock.

  6. #5

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    Collier is impressing, but also extreme. It would not necessary a problem, but after I have seen many of his vocal/other productions, I can not found music. Mechanical patterns and artifical things are the opposite of the feeling what I look for

  7. #6

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    Imagine having ‘bloody’ as your middle name

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    This young man is insufferable.
    The Collier backlash is in full septuplet swing

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    There is something about him that make me want to smack him with a wet sock.
    I wouldn’t do that if I were you. He would probably record it, process it through a voice synthesiser, and turn it into a 57-part choir using negative harmony.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    Collier is impressing, but also extreme. It would not necessary a problem, but after I have seen many of his vocal/other productions, I can not found music. Mechanical patterns and artifical things are the opposite of the feeling what I look for
    His main body of work is improvising complex vocal harmonies. That would be singing vocal harmonies. How can that be mechanical and artificial?

    His music also has a whimsical quality.

    He is extreme, an extreme musical genius. His music is extremely complex yet accessible enough that he is popular and wins Grammys.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    His main body of work is improvising complex vocal harmonies. That would be singing vocal harmonies. How can that be mechanical and artificial?

    His music also has a whimsical quality.

    He is extreme, an extreme musical genius. His music is extremely complex yet accessible enough that he is popular and wins Grammys.
    I do not see, how this proves it is not mechanic or artificial. Also I have doubt of the improvising part. Is not it multitrack playback? Yes you can improvize *over* a recorded track, but improvizing a 8 track harmony construct, this is happening 8 different timeline instead of one. btw even improvization also can be mechanical. Also I find negativ harmony a theoretic, mechanical construct. I am not stating it is good or bad, and I also do understand the theory in the back. I state only, it is a pure construct, and not a musical thought, and not a feeling (like blues, or swing, or even free jazz) what I prefer.

  12. #11

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    Gabor, give this a listen.


  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Start at 40:00 of this video (I find it all very fascinating FWIW).

    Herbie Hancock said, "This young man is incredible".

    And he could do the same thing using a 432 pitch reference.

    Even if his tunes are not one's cup of tea, it's hard to deny that his musical proficiency is in the stratosphere. His videos are informative and he seems to love to disseminate his knowledge.

    I really don't get the Jacob Collier hate. To me, at least, he doesn't come across like a self-absorbed a-hole that is full of himself. Why do folks find him "insufferable"?

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by zdub
    To me, at least, he doesn't come across like a self-absorbed a-hole that is full of himself.
    Time for a poll?

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    This young man is insufferable.


    What better to call planned out spontaneity,
    Fast talk explanations meant to uninform us,
    Performing the Royal Albert Hall in London -
    So serious is he, but playing in his pajamas.

  16. #15

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    There is no hate, but he may not know;
    That he was surpassed a long time ago.
    It might break his heart or spoil his fun,
    If he ever heard Yes or Todd Rundgren.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Talking harmony with Hancock:

    Bright kid, very bright. Herbie was a bright kid too, and very hip, like, to die for hip.

    Herbie should do a video called "5 levels of Hip", maybe Jacob should stay at home for that one...

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Bright kid, very bright. Herbie was a bright kid too, and very hip, like, to die for hip.

    Herbie should do a video called "5 levels of Hip", maybe Jacob should stay at home for that one...
    The Grad Student one made me cringe. Eastman college of music IIRC ‘do you know what the cycle of fifths is?’ Lol. I think he means well enough, just a little unaware.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I wouldn’t do that if I were you. He would probably record it, process it through a voice synthesiser, and turn it into a 57-part choir using negative harmony.
    Tiny little Jacob Collier heads would sprout over your body, harmonising your every utterance in sardonic quarter tones.

    Collier’s pox is a hell of a way to go.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    What better to call planned out spontaneity,
    Fast talk explanations meant to uninform us,
    Performing the Royal Albert Hall in London -
    So serious is he, but playing in his pajamas.
    Yeah the Albert Hall gig was when I realised I was way more into the people he’d chosen to collaborate with. He has good taste though!

    I heard a thing of his I thought was quite good music the other day though, people sometimes need time to ‘cook’; if one is to compare him with Mozart, I don’t listen to much of Mozart’s early stuff tbh, his greatest work was later after the hype train had died down a bit and he was no longer the wunderkind. So it will be interesting to see what he ends up doing.

    TBH I don’t tend to pay him too much attention on the whole. Maybe I’m missing out but I haven’t heard much that hits the spot for me.

  21. #20

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    Annoying af lol.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Gabor, give this a listen.

    I really appreciate your enthusiasm, and also thx for the sample you intended as argument against my mechanic and artificial attributes. My observation was not about Collier as a person, I never stated he can not sing a song with feeling. I talked about instead the negative harmony theory, also my doubts the death deep theory as the starting and leading point for a musical work.

    So this video does not represent the mainstream of Colliers work, and does not represent Colliers extra unique talent neither. This is a singing over piano and orchestra, and within that genre not extraordinary, we can find most interesting many.

    To be unique in solo vocal, the artist needs much more, a unique character, which is unrepeteable. Probably Collier is unrepeatable in his concept, in his ear, in his way he uses theory, but not in this mainly conventional singing over the piano. What makes me wow in singing solo genre is this, of course this nothing to do with a planned modulation to half D#, I do understand it :-)


  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    Welcome relief....I only saw JC once & struggled to stay in the room - the deal I made with myself was that when it was over I would offer to buy a drink for the 4 people headbanging in the front row if they would try to enlighten me.

    JC spoiled it by coming back for an encore - 'Danny Boy' (the gig was in Ireland) & I couldn't take it anymore & bailed out.

    I saw them again a few days later at a Sheryl Bailey gig but ....

  24. #23

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    Negative harmony was something Steve Coleman was into, I think Collier got into it from an article he wrote.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    So this video does not represent the mainstream of Colliers work, and does not represent Colliers extra unique talent neither. This is a singing over piano and orchestra, and within that genre not extraordinary, we can find most interesting many.

    Not just singing over piano and orchestra. He wrote and orchestrated the entire piece, every instrument. Al Jarreau, who is one my favorites, never did anything like that.

    But I appreciate you articulating your opinion. Most of the other posts, are just basically saying JC sucks and with no salient points to even comment on. Like comparing him to Yes or Rundgren, who harmonically were pretty vanilla, is completely ignoring what he does or who he is. That kind of comparison is just trolling.

    And, I'm not the only one enthusiastic about Collier... Quincy Jones, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, Pat Metheny and many others

    Pat Metheny said:

    I mean, I‘m sure you’re hip to Jacob Collier the same way I’m hip to Jacob Collier. To me, he’s the first really significant 21st century musician... And it’s like yeah, it’s his instrument, and man, the level of that guy functioning musically is you know, at the level we all aspire towards.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Gabor, give this a listen.

    Thanks for posting that, I quite enjoyed it. I respect him a lot, I've just never been a fan of the actual sound of jazz harmony vocal works, I like that context much more.