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  1. #1

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    The big piano ending was written by Rita Coolidge. It was ripped off from her by an ex-boyfriend, and she never received or was given any credit. Everyone involved knew, and Clapton won't speak about it.

    Rita Coolidge - Wikipedia

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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    The big piano ending was written by Rita Coolidge. It was ripped off from her by an ex-boyfriend, and she never received or was given any credit. Everyone involved knew, and Clapton won't speak about it.

    Rita Coolidge - Wikipedia
    Publish or perish

  4. #3
    From WP:

    Layla


    Coolidge didn't receive songwriting credits for the piano coda in the 1971 single "Layla" by Eric Clapton's band Derek and the Dominos.[9] In 2016, Coolidge stated that she recorded a demo with her boyfriend, the band's drummer Jim Gordon, before they went to England to record with Clapton. Once they met with Clapton, Coolidge played the piece she composed for him and she gave him a cassette.[7] Clapton, impressed by the piece, used it as part of the song in the coda section which she found out by hearing the song over the PA system a year later. She tried to contact Clapton, but was told by his manager Robert Stigwood, "What are you gonna do? You’re a girl. You don't have money to fight this." She hasn't heard from Clapton himself but believes he is aware of the situation.[7]
    Though only Gordon has been officially credited with this part, the band's keyboardist Bobby Whitlock claimed:
    Jim took that piano melody from his ex-girlfriend, Rita Coolidge. I know because in the Delaney & Bonnie days, I lived in John Garfield's old house in the Hollywood Hills and there was a guest house with an upright piano in it. Rita and Jim were up there in the guest house and invited me to join in on writing this song with them called "Time". Her sister Priscilla wound up recording it with her husband, Booker T. Jones (of Booker T. & the M.G.'s). Jim took the melody from Rita's song and didn't give her credit for writing it. Her boyfriend ripped her off.[10]
    "Time" ended up on the 1973 album Chronicles by Booker T. and Priscilla.

  5. #4
    At least someone's got a trail of corroborated incidents. The school I went to is filled with faculty who made their way up be going on the road as side players for the "big names". Their collective stories of legends who gave their fellow musicians credit and those who didn't are the real stories.
    Now when I hear about Grammy winners and legends, I can't help but associate them with the stories told by their sidemen. You might be surprised.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    At least someone's got a trail of corroborated incidents. The school I went to is filled with faculty who made their way up be going on the road as side players for the "big names". Their collective stories of legends who gave their fellow musicians credit and those who didn't are the real stories.
    Now when I hear about Grammy winners and legends, I can't help but associate them with the stories told by their sidemen. You might be surprised.
    Yes, it seems to run the gamut: everything from "best job I ever had" to "total A-hole who I would never work for again, no matter how much they paid me".

    One of my favorites, John Mellencamp, has a reputation for being a taskmaster, but I heard a David Grissom interview where he basically said the way JM treated his band depended on his mood: if you came up with a part he liked, you were his best friend that day. If you could not come up with something he liked, his treatment of you was so bad it bordered on emotional abuse. So either JM is an a-hole and a user, OR he's bi-polar LOL. He wrote the songs, but all those famous, memorable PARTS were written by his band. At least he paid extremely well.. almost as if that was WHY he could abuse you, lol (I had a boss like that once)

  7. #6
    Just an aside, I always wondered who played the awesome guitar lead at the end of Rita's version of "We're all Alone." Beautiful simple bending work going from major to minor. And then the guitar kinda fades out, as if cut off. Maybe Jay Graydon? Or a Nashville person?

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    The big piano ending was written by Rita Coolidge. It was ripped off from her by an ex-boyfriend, and she never received or was given any credit. Everyone involved knew, and Clapton won't speak about it.

    Rita Coolidge - Wikipedia
    Why am I neither shocked nor even surprised? Never let anyone hear your original material until you have registered your copyright. It's a bit of a hassle, but gives you legal grounds for when push comes to shove.

  9. #8

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    Just my personal opinion, but in what I've seen of the world, you don't usually make it to the top by being a nice guy. If you're seeking money from music rather than as an avocation, then beware, because the music biz is a cut-throat world.

    I once backed a big name when I was young. In fact, a revered legend today, now dead. But he was actually full of hatred back stage. Nothing is as it appears. The Music Biz is not for nice folk. Look at Cohen getting his pension fleeced by his personal manager.

    Also as a youth, I tried to be diplomatic when a studio producer started cursing me out because he was looking for some sound or style that existed in his mind, but was too elusive for him to explain. The money wasn't worth it. I'd be happier today if I had told the prat to play it himself and just go for dinner. But I wanted the studio experience. The music biz is run by abusive business people who treat artists like disposable plastic spoons. And Big Names aren't too far off. THEY PAY YOU, THEY OWN YOU. Once you're paid, it's called WORK.

    I've heard many say that it's not like that. Bassist Leland Sklar, for one. But if you got a comfortable 9-5, you'll have far more enjoyment from music on your own time than you'll never get from chasing the stage. Benefits, breaks, friends. You'll get a pension, too. But we never think of that when we're young, do we...?

    ...

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    Just my personal opinion, but in what I've seen of the world, you don't usually make it to the top by being a nice guy. If you're seeking money from music rather than as an avocation, then beware, because the music biz is a cut-throat world.

    I once backed a big name when I was young. In fact, a revered legend today, now dead. But he was actually full of hatred back stage. Nothing is as it appears. The Music Biz is not for nice folk. Look at Cohen getting his pension fleeced by his personal manager.

    Also as a youth, I tried to be diplomatic when a studio producer started cursing me out because he was looking for some sound or style that existed in his mind, but was too elusive for him to explain. The money wasn't worth it. I'd be happier today if I had told the prat to play it himself and just go for dinner. But I wanted the studio experience. The music biz is run by abusive business people who treat artists like disposable plastic spoons. And Big Names aren't too far off. THEY PAY YOU, THEY OWN YOU. Once you're paid, it's called WORK.

    I've heard many say that it's not like that. Bassist Leland Sklar, for one. But if you got a comfortable 9-5, you'll have far more enjoyment from music on your own time than you'll never get from chasing the stage. Benefits, breaks, friends. You'll get a pension, too. But we never think of that when we're young, do we...?

    ...
    Well, I think there's a difference in how you "have" to be to managers and labels, as opposed to how you treat your band. They aren't out to get you, they are employed by you. You don't have to be a tyrant to be a leader. Plenty of "nice guys" who "pay well" and are loyal to their band members. And it is reciprocated in good performances and loyalty BY the band members. Best of all worlds. The E Street Band hasn't stayed with Bruce all these decades because he pays like crap or is an ahole.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9
    Well, I think there's a difference in how you "have" to be to managers and labels, as opposed to how you treat your band. They aren't out to get you, they are employed by you. You don't have to be a tyrant to be a leader. Plenty of "nice guys" who "pay well" and are loyal to their band members. And it is reciprocated in good performances and loyalty BY the band members. Best of all worlds. The E Street Band hasn't stayed with Bruce all these decades because he pays like crap or is an ahole.
    All through the back rooms of "the business", Bruce is acknowledged as being one of the best bosses to have; THE Boss. So many others, though, have Grammy winning hits, and for, I'd say at least half that I know of, know who the "real" author was. It's not an honorable, or just industry these days.
    But there are also the leaders and the bands that value the human aspect, treat others well and have really good working relationships that make life on the road possible.
    In the jazz circuit, it's a little different. Venues, audiences, road labour and profits are in a different league. Plus, with more of the top young players knowing right from the start that they don't/shouldn't/can't do this for the money, and also coming from music schools where hopefully there are mentors if not classes, that teach you about how things work, your own situation is in your own hands more. One reason the jazz musicians I know are careful about who they work with.
    It may be a big generalization but jazz musicians tend to have worked harder before attaining a recognized level of accomplishment and road-worthy proficiency. That maturity projects savvy and some degree of worldly knowledge.
    It also tends to foster a sense that a lot of jazz musicians value what they do, won't tolerate being abused... unless there's a LOT to be gained by it.

  12. #11

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    I can't imagine why Clapton wouldnt acknowledge it. It's not like he's claimed credit for it and doesn't want to pay royalties. Nor that he has any allegiance to Jim Gordon. The money would simply go to someone else. And its not like Rita couldn't lawyer up and go claim her money.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9
    You don't have to be a tyrant to be a leader. Plenty of "nice guys" who "pay well" and are loyal to their band members.
    Yep...


    I'm a big fan of Buddy Rich's playing.
    Wouldn't want to be around, though.

    Jimmy Bruno says it was a great time for him.
    To each their own.

    Tommy Dorsey comes to mind, too.
    Not too many happy faces there.

  14. #13

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    Meh...is there any business that isn’t cutthroat anymore?

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlD
    I can't imagine why Clapton wouldnt acknowledge it. It's not like he's claimed credit for it and doesn't want to pay royalties. Nor that he has any allegiance to Jim Gordon. The money would simply go to someone else. And its not like Rita couldn't lawyer up and go claim her money.
    Why must people lawyer up simply to claim what is rightfully theirs? There's the rub. The strong continue to oppress the weak; if not actively, then passively. There are sins of omission.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    Meh...is there any business that isn’t cutthroat anymore?
    Probably not. But only some use rusty razors to do it...




    Hell, why not turn it up a notch...
    Fletcher makes Buddy sound like a tea lady.


  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    Why must people lawyer up simply to claim what is rightfully theirs? There's the rub. The strong continue to oppress the weak; if not actively, then passively. There are sins of omission.
    Because that's how a system of law works.

    None of us know whether it is "rightfully hers" or not. A court of law is the designated method by which we determine that in our society.

    If EC was claiming he wrote it and earning royalties that might not be his, the claim that this is about oppression might have some credibility. But that's not the case.

    Further, and I think more critically .. given the circumstances and environment Layla was recorded, I wouldn't at all be surprised that all kinda of things got written down incorrectly. And if jim Gordon claimed he wrote the piece, I doubt anyone there would've questioned it, since they were all as high as they could be. And given his schizophrenia, he certainly may well have lied about it.

    EC has always given due (and props) to writers of tunes he recorded .. and as far as we know, he did so with Layla. If Rita wrote it, I hope she gets credit for that at some point. BUt the only procedure by which that happens is a court of law.

  18. #17

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    You've even gotta be careful about your teacher. A pianist I play with a lot was studying with a very well known jazz pianist, and he brought in a tune to show him as part of a lesson.
    The next thing he knew, it was on the teacher's new album, with the teacher credited as composer!

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    A pianist I play with a lot was studying with a very well known jazz pianist, and he brought in a tune to show him as part of a lesson. The next thing he knew, it was on the teacher's new album, with the teacher credited as composer!
    Shades of 'Solar'...

  20. #19

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    a Hammond B-3 player I worked with said he would occasionally rent out his organ to visiting artists.
    he told me he was working on this tune when Booker T came by to rent the organ, and went to check him out the next night. he claimed Booker was playing the tune he was working on...."Green Onions"....and the rest is history.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Just an aside, I always wondered who played the awesome guitar lead at the end of Rita's version of "We're all Alone." Beautiful simple bending work going from major to minor. And then the guitar kinda fades out, as if cut off. Maybe Jay Graydon? Or a Nashville person?
    not sure but I think it's Louis Shelton

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    not sure but I think it's Louis Shelton
    I know that Louie did the Boz Scaggs work, but I am wondering about Coolidge's record.

  23. #22

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    In his autobiography, Charles Fox, the film and TV composer, talked about his stint as Dizzy's pianist.
    Fox wrote a suite of jazz pieces for the quintet's new record, and Diz said, "Cool, but if I record them, I get composer's credit for them." Diz said it was a common practice for leaders to receive composer's credit when the record goes under the leader's name.
    Fox freaked out, and quit the band.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    Jimmy Bruno says it was a great time for him.
    To each their own.
    He also said he quit 'because it's hard to play with a knot in your stomach'

    Billy Joel turned down a chance to make an album with George Martin, who wanted to use studio musicians with 'nah, I'm with the band'

    Liberty Devitto, his long time (25+ yrs) drummer & songwriting collaborator (....) asked,

    'how did we get from "I'm with the band" to "Get the fuck out of my room"

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    In his autobiography, Charles Fox, the film and TV composer, talked about his stint as Dizzy's pianist.
    Fox wrote a suite of jazz pieces for the quintet's new record, and Diz said, "Cool, but if I record them, I get composer's credit for them." Diz said it was a common practice for leaders to receive composer's credit when the record goes under the leader's name.
    Fox freaked out, and quit the band.
    Absolutely. How do you think Irving Mills got credit for St James Infirmary?


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  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by dot75

    Billy Joel turned down a chance to make an album with George Martin, who wanted to use studio musicians with 'nah, I'm with the band'

    Liberty Devitto, his long time (25+ yrs) drummer & songwriting collaborator (....) asked,

    'how did we get from "I'm with the band" to "Get the fuck out of my room"
    Yeah, I'm a huge Billy Joel fan, and that one confounded me....