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  1. #1

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    There is a lot of controversy about Marcin's playing.
    As you can see, Marcin has great stylistic interests and great technical ease.
    Is a new style of playing guitar born?


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Good grief. Alright jazzers, let the flaming begin LOL

  4. #3

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    I will answer this with messages from the 3 different Mr. Beaumonts.

    Friendly supportive Mr. Beaumont: Man, he's good. And such a great energy.

    Hasn't had enough coffee yet Mr. Beaumont: That's one of the harshest tones I've ever heard. And he's not even improvising, he's bluffing his way through some of Trane's solo

    Level headed, grounded Mr. Beaumont: I suppose it's not really "jazz," and I don't like the sound, but this guy has taken the "candyrat" style of playing solo acoustic guitar to the next level, and he's a great performer.

  5. #4

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    I have to confess total ignorance about this ‘candyrat’ business, it has completely passed me by until now.

    ok looked it up, I see it is a record label specialising in 2-handed tapping acoustic guitarists.

  6. #5

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    I am glad that young Marcin tries different genres. He has energy and enthusiasm.
    He makes an impression because he plays alone. Let him keep trying.
    He copied the Coltrane solo chorus and so what, he did it in an unconventional way.
    It is only 20 s.- He shows that "I can do it too."
    I wonder how long it took him to prepare those 20 seconds.
    Giant Steps - a very serious challenge.
    Berklee College of music- good choice for him.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I will answer this with messages from the 3 different Mr. Beaumonts.

    Friendly supportive Mr. Beaumont: Man, he's good. And such a great energy.

    Hasn't had enough coffee yet Mr. Beaumont: That's one of the harshest tones I've ever heard. And he's not even improvising, he's bluffing his way through some of Trane's solo

    Level headed, grounded Mr. Beaumont: I suppose it's not really "jazz," and I don't like the sound, but this guy has taken the "candyrat" style of playing solo acoustic guitar to the next level, and he's a great performer.
    Perfect. Bravo!

  8. #7

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    I hesitate to even participate in Monday-morning quarterbacking someone else's musical choices or efforts... but I have to agree with those who applaud Marcin's diverse interests and his technical achievements thus far.

    But... is this style really "new"? EVH was tapping in the 80s and he stole it from flamenco (?) players. Vicki Genfan won the Guitar Player Superstar award in '08 with Atomic Reshuffle - that's 13 years ago!

    Marcin is definitely interesting but he's not doing anything new. I find players like Vicki to be more "musical" for some reason I can't quite quantify, but quantity might be it: in her playing, technique always serves the music, not the other way around. I think that at this point Marcin might still place more emphasis on showing off technique than on using it to show off the music. It's like a dish in which the seasoning overshadows the ingredients. IMO, less percussion and more attention to melody/harmony might be more interesting.

    On that same tack, Tommy Emmanuel never plays "tap/slap" style that I'm aware of but his performances are far more interesting and musical than anything I've heard from Marcin... yet :-)

    Just my $0.02... thanks to all who have posted the interesting vids of Marcin. I admit I had never heard of him at all because I don't watch the freak ... er, talent... shows that saturate the airwaves these days.

    Just in case you haven't seen Atomic Reshuffle, here it is:



    And a beautiful, soulful, GROOVING, TONEful, performance by TE that is uber-impressive despite the fact that it requres no beating up the guitar top :-)


  9. #8

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    The tapping thing is certainly not new:


  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    The tapping thing is certainly not new:


    So you're saying that Marcin has an old soul and is upholding a long standing tradition?

  11. #10

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    lol, ‘semi-trolling’ alert.

    Good luck to Marcin, I quite enjoy watching his technical ability even if the music is not entirely my cup of tea.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    lol, ‘semi-trolling’ alert.

    Good luck to Marcin, I quite enjoy watching his technical ability even if the music is not entirely my cup of tea.
    Hehe ... But more seriously I kinda feel the same way, but he is an extremely talented 20 year old with amazing potential and I really look forward to hear him in 5-8 years time

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    lol, ‘semi-trolling’ alert.

    Good luck to Marcin, I quite enjoy watching his technical ability even if the music is not entirely my cup of tea.
    ‘semi-trolling’ alert.....?
    I don't know what that means but I guess it's not nice.
    Unless it's a joke.

  14. #13

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    No it’s ok, all good-humoured...I remembered Lobomov said he does a bit of ‘semi-trolling’ occasionally - and I caught him at it!

  15. #14

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    One thing that intrigues me with the tapping stuff is how well it works sound-wise on the acoustic guitar (including the chap in 1965).

    I never really liked the electric guitar tappers like Stanley Jordan all that much, not because of the playing, but because of that thin ‘plinky’ sound it seems to make on the electric guitar.

    There is a piece by Fernando Sor for classical guitar where one passage is played by left-hand tapping/fretting only. I have it on a CD and it sounds quite effective.

  16. #15

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    Very cool and reflects a lot of work and talent. And not to take anything away...

    But I am reminded that the complete jazz guitarist is required to know a boat load of songs, read charts, play a song in different keys, comp for others, play in different time signatures, play in different styles, and react to the playing of others. And in the old days, talk to customers while playing.

    Just being a competent, working player takes a lot of work and talent, but may not get a lot clicks on the Tube.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by rictroll
    Very cool and reflects a lot of work and talent. And not to take anything away...

    But I am reminded that the complete jazz guitarist is required to know a boat load of songs, read charts, play a song in different keys, comp for others, play in different time signatures, play in different styles, and react to the playing of others. And in the old days, talk to customers while playing.

    Just being a competent, working player takes a lot of work and talent, but may not get a lot clicks on the Tube.
    The complete jazz guitarist ...
    A large number of these complete jazz guitarists are watching youtube and even posting recordings,They probably dream of having a lot clicks on the Tube.Me too.I do not like internet. It takes too much time.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    One thing that intrigues me with the tapping stuff is how well it works sound-wise on the acoustic guitar (including the chap in 1965).

    I never really liked the electric guitar tappers like Stanley Jordan all that much, not because of the playing, but because of that thin ‘plinky’ sound it seems to make on the electric guitar.

    There is a piece by Fernando Sor for classical guitar where one passage is played by left-hand tapping/fretting only. I have it on a CD and it sounds quite effective.
    The tapping technique looks very interesting for the viewer. When used sparingly, it can also produce a musical effect.
    I am tired of the sound when listening to the whole album, e.g. Stanley Jordan.
    Perhaps here is the truth:
    Tapping guitarists work more with the technique of performance than with the sound.
    Or just tapping will never sound as good as standard guitar playing ...?

  19. #18

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    Very articulate opinions.

    This production perfectly fits to the recent race for the attraction of the audience, giving more and more stimulus, to prevent the audience getting bored, As a response todays audience getting more and more easily bored,

    Most sensable in movies. Recently I tried to watch a movie, but in the first 20 minutes nothing else happened just a car chasing (computer modelled, with beautiful colors an lights) while within the car blood and injury close ups, eyeballs were flying, and dropped under the break pedal, so breaking was freakingly prohibbitted. All of this with 2-3 seconds camera changes. When the first non chasing scene came, a few men were talking, still the camera changed 2-3 seconds, and even within those 2-3 second periods was moving, or zooming in/out. Not by the Neverheard Pictures and Anonym Productions
    (If anyone interested based on this teaser, PM me for the title :-)

    It is really good to see there is an opposite trend too, almost all movies nominated to Golden Globe, Bafta or Academy Awards are worth to watch, which was not always the case.

    Maybe I am saying the obvious, but it seems to be more circus than music. Talented? Sure. Lot of hard work, sure. Gives you stimulus, sure. Intellectual? I am not sure. Has content? Has story? Is it possible to listen dozen times, and discover new things?
    Last edited by Gabor; 04-15-2021 at 02:27 AM.

  20. #19

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    Giant Steps is a meme at this point though right?

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    One thing that intrigues me with the tapping stuff is how well it works sound-wise on the acoustic guitar (including the chap in 1965).

    I never really liked the electric guitar tappers like Stanley Jordan all that much, not because of the playing, but because of that thin ‘plinky’ sound it seems to make on the electric guitar.

    There is a piece by Fernando Sor for classical guitar where one passage is played by left-hand tapping/fretting only. I have it on a CD and it sounds quite effective.
    Yeah I like it. While I think the video Kris posted is impressive I wouldn’t describe as an approach to the guitar that’s new to me, although I don’t know if anyone has taken the time to play Trane’s solo in this style.

    There’s quite a few acoustic tappers these days... Also Holdsworth sounded quite ... Holdsworthian on an acoustic.

    I would say the fashion for many young touch style players has moved away from distorted tapping and more towards these kinds of pianistic soundscape things, which is nice. I think Yvette Young has a really nice tone.


    Or of course any number of acoustic tappers. I think of Jon Gomm as the populariser here . He’s been around a few years. Also retuning the guitar as he plays and singing at the same time.


    Dude above to my ears just needs to calm down and settle into himself a bit more, and he’ll sound terrific. Impressive guitarism, he needs to cook a little, and unlike the two videos I posted here I actually find him quite hard to listen to. Very much ‘young man noise’ haha. He’s pretty young though right? Probably just needs some miles on the clock.
    Last edited by christianm77; 04-15-2021 at 03:39 AM.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    Has content? Has story?

    20 year olds don't usually have nuanced stories, it's usually just brash in your face singular points .. Max Circus, Max Anger, Max something else. Is it something that is a top priority to look for in young musicians?

    Even if you look at the Beatles ... There is a world of difference from Love Me Do to A Day in the Life.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    20 year olds don't usually have nuanced stories, it's usually just brash in your face singular points .. Max Circus, Max Anger, Max something else. Is it something that is a top priority to look for in young musicians?

    Even if you look at the Beatles ... There is a world of difference from Love Me Do to A Day in the Life.
    I would say the top priority to look for in young musicians is musicality. This can be present very early in musicians.

    What sort of things?

    Dynamic contrast is a fairly cheap and reliable way of sounding musical. Antoine Boyer has totally killed this side of it haha. But it works! Hard with tapping.

    also groove- which both Jon Gomm and Yvette above have dailed in...

    Nothing wrong with youthful energy either, if it connects. Older people probably won’t relate to that in the same way, I guess!

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I would say the top priority to look for in young musicians is musicality. This can be present very early in musicians.

    What sort of things?

    Dynamic contrast is a fairly cheap and reliable way of sounding musical. Antoine Boyer has totally killed this side of it haha. But it works! Hard with tapping.

    also groove- which both Jon Gomm and Yvette above have dailed in...

    Nothing wrong with youthful energy either, if it connects. Older people probably won’t relate to that in the same way, I guess!

    Let me refrase it then:
    Are we sure that denying young musicians the right to just hammer home one argument without nuance is a good idea?



    It's about finding yourself and going to the extreme being it unabashed shred or overblown anger is part of that process.

    Antoine Boyer is excellent at playing in a style that appeases boomers

    Marcin attempts to conquer the world.

    One has 19.000 subscribers on youtube and the other has 460.000 subscribers.



    But sure .. Seen thru the glasses of jg.be esthetics Antoine >>>>>>>>>> Marcin


    It's going to be very interesting comparing those two in 5-10 years time


    Marcin has ambition, which isn't necessarily a bad thing

  25. #24

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    I see he has posted a 19mn gig video on his YT channel 22h ago. I'll watch it later. So far I watched his instagram 30s videos. He is very good tzchnically for sure but to me, those are closer to commercial jingles than real music.

    Envoyé de mon SM-G930F en utilisant Tapatalk

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    The tapping technique looks very interesting for the viewer. When used sparingly, it can also produce a musical effect.
    I am tired of the sound when listening to the whole album, e.g. Stanley Jordan.
    Perhaps here is the truth:
    Tapping guitarists work more with the technique of performance than with the sound.
    Or just tapping will never sound as good as standard guitar playing ...?
    Isn’t the problem with tapping the fact that you are activating the string at the worst possible place, tone-wise? i.e. at the extreme end of the vibrating string length. Like plucking a guitar string right at the bridge.

    I’m no expert on the physics involved, but I think it might be something to do with there being hardly any harmonics or overtones at that point, so the tone is very thin.

    Also I think that’s why a clavichord sounds a bit ‘plinky’, the tangents (by stopping the string as well as activating it) strike the string at the end of the effective string length.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by starjasmine
    @Kris
    Please take a look at this video and stop feeding us with content about your self made controversy.

    This woman is making music!

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Y


    Marcin: circus act
    Jon: musician

  29. #28

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    I can appreciate that Jon Gomm song. How many strings do you think he's broken practicing that lol!

  30. #29

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    I am not sure I understand neither posts on Antoine Boyer (I mean my English).

    For me the two guys are the antithesis to each other in point of music. Shallow vs musical, harsh vs detailed, rebel vs inventor. The result is talking itself: the shallow one gets 10x or more attraction, despite Boyer has more than 10 years presence.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    I am not sure I understand neither posts on Antoine Boyer (I mean my English).

    For me the two guys are the antithesis to each other in point of music. Shallow vs musical, harsh vs detailed, rebel vs inventor. The result is talking itself: the shallow one gets 10x or more attraction, despite Boyer has more than 10 years presence.

    Or maybe ... just maybe .... your perception of shallow is wrong?

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Let me refrase it then:
    Are we sure that denying young musicians the right to just hammer home one argument without nuance is a good idea?


    It's about finding yourself and going to the extreme being it unabashed shred or overblown anger is part of that process.

    Antoine Boyer is excellent at playing in a style that appeases boomers

    Marcin attempts to conquer the world.

    One has 19.000 subscribers on youtube and the other has 460.000 subscribers.



    But sure .. Seen thru the glasses of jg.be esthetics Antoine >>>>>>>>>> Marcin


    It's going to be very interesting comparing those two in 5-10 years time


    Marcin has ambition, which isn't necessarily a bad thing
    what I got from this post is that I am a Boomer now.

    Ah, well time to embrace it. I’ll start posting minion memes and complaining about modern music. And posting photographs of my guitar collection of course (well I would if it wasn’t crap.)

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Or maybe ... just maybe .... your perception of shallow is wrong?
    you are right, individual perceptions are differerent, interestingly that is the reason I would not categorize a perception wrong or right. I started the sentece with "For me..." so it is not intended as general truth. I also could agree changing the word shallow to mechanic, then we got the mechanic vs musical, harsh vs detailed, rebel vs inventor.

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    I would say the fashion for many young touch style players has moved away from distorted tapping and more towards these kinds of pianistic soundscape things, which is nice. I think Yvette Young has a really nice tone.


    .
    I dig her pink sparkle Ibanez Talman!

    That was really cool. And reminded me of how Eric Johnson developed a technique to make a guitar sound like a Kyoto. Anything other than "straight" guitar playing (which includes tapping of ANY kind, no matter how old it is), always gets hated on by a large number of people. And I agree with the opinion above somewhere that tapping (and this other stuff) can be very musical when used sparingly, like a spice in a good food... but when you empty a bottle of hot sauce into a delicious dish, all you get is very spicy solid matter, not delicious food.

    Which also brings to mind effects- effects, used sparingly, can be cool. But IMO, as cool as Bill Frissel CAN be, when he goes off on his pedalboard-loaded creations, while they can be cool "soundscapes", I'm not really a fan of them, as "music". As a "song". There's nothing wrong with soundscapes- I love them actually, but I don't think of them as "regular music", if that makes any sense. When You start using a looper and 3 delays + a fuzz, I think you are leaving the world of melodic music and entering the world of soundscapes. Bill's album, "Solos" in no way represents jazz or melodic music to me. I like it, but I think of it in a different category all together.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    @Kris
    Please take a look at this video and stop feeding us with content about your self made controversy.

    This woman is making music!
    I will answer funny:
    Music is everywhere.
    Even in the circus ... I saw it on TV.

  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    Marcin: circus act
    Jon: musician
    You have your tags and you put whatever you want in them.
    I understand that.
    For me, music has a much larger dimension, which does not mean that I have no musical taste.
    Maybe someday there will come a good time that you will be more open to 'circus acts'.
    I have no such problem.

  37. #36

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    Marcin Patrzalek Live concert. Keep it secret


  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    what I got from this post is that I am a Boomer now.

    Ah, well time to embrace it. I’ll start posting minion memes and complaining about modern music. And posting photographs of my guitar collection of course (well I would if it wasn’t crap.)

    Nah you know bloody well that my statement isn't aimed at you personally, but at the general tendency in this forum to hate on the young

    But yeah ... the young do make interesting music too

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    In other news, I just realised I didn’t dream this



    Ariana Grande has been covering this tune for a while.

    I think everyone was in lockdown with too much time to shed lol

  39. #38

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    Thundercat rules.

    As for the tapping thing, I found the Yvette Young video quite compelling. It's musically interesting first, she's not making the video to show you how difficult it is. Around 2 minutes in it settles into this kind of indie rock sounding thing, I could hear it with drums easily, it's not just some guitar player music, it's music.

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Thundercat rules.

    As for the tapping thing, I found the Yvette Young video quite compelling. It's musically interesting first, she's not making the video to show you how difficult it is. Around 2 minutes in it settles into this kind of indie rock sounding thing, I could hear it with drums easily, it's not just some guitar player music, it's music.
    Agreed, I started a deep dive on her and her band, Covet, this morning. All instrumental. They call themselves "indie math rock" lol. But I find it intriguing because I find it so musical. I also found Marcin's cover of Kashmir musical, and compelling. Not all of his stuff is that cool (to me). no denying his talent and yes even creativeness/originality. But Yvette... there's something there. Going to be doing some listening today... I could see myself having her on my iPod, but not Marcin... as much as I appreciate his talent, what he does I can only listen to in small doses. Like Yngwie LOL.

  41. #40

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    Not to hijack the thread on Marcin, lol, but for those interested in Yvette, this is a good "starter video", she talks about how she got started on guitar (she is a classically trained pianist and violinist) DWEEZIL ZAPPA interviews



  42. #41

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    It's easy to talk, it's easy to write, it's harder to play.
    It is very good that new guitarists are innovating.
    As you can see, there are not so many of them compared to "standard" players.
    Regarding where there is more music, less music-this can also be applied to normal guitarists playing known techniques.

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Thundercat rules.

    As for the tapping thing, I found the Yvette Young video quite compelling. It's musically interesting first, she's not making the video to show you how difficult it is. Around 2 minutes in it settles into this kind of indie rock sounding thing, I could hear it with drums easily, it's not just some guitar player music, it's music.
    Thats what I dig about her. Maybe because she started (burnt out) on classical piano... but she thinks about he music and the technique is just what she uses to execute it, and she’s building this all around the writing. It’s more my kind of thing ultimately than the guitar-for-guitar’s-sake stuff although that can certainly be fun and impressive.

  44. #43

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    Oh this is quite wonderful as well

  45. #44

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    It seems that if I hadn't put a thread about Marcin there wouldn't be this topic on JGF.
    Good too.

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    It seems that if I hadn't put a thread about Marcin there wouldn't be this topic on JGF.
    Good too.
    I love it! Broadening horizons!

  47. #46

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    Here's something you jazzers will "appreciate"... Yvette plays .013's! lol

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Oh this is quite wonderful as well
    This is really nice ... it exemplifies the "less is more" effect. Starting with just nice clean, musical playing.

    Except for the production values, where clearly a little more is a little more :-)

    Perhaps he is mixing the room mic with mag pickup output, and using the same hall reverb on both... it fattens up the tone of his tapped axe a bit and gives the percussive stuff a really nice bed to sit in ... plus, that orange stompbox - whatever it is - is also pretty cool:-)

    (EDIT: It's a Meris Enzo programmable synth. About $250 new.)

    Love this lively discussion and all the clips ... JGBE posters always turn me on to such great players I might never have seen otherwise. Thanks, everybody!

  49. #48

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