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  1. #1

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    Here's Pepper Adams--the great Baritone Saxophonist playing "Lovers of Their Time." No one's playing like this anymore! RIP, brother. Good playing . . . Marinero



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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    We could also all use more art in our lives.


  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Here's Pepper Adams--the great Baritone Saxophonist playing "Lovers of Their Time." No one's playing like this anymore! RIP, brother. Good playing . . . Marinero


    No one played the bari quite Pepper did back in his day, either!

  5. #4

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    Love his playing on that live record with Donald Byrd:


  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Love his playing on that live record with Donald Byrd:

    Oh man, this record. Thanks for reminding me of it.

  7. #6

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    Loves me some Pepper Adams and Art Pepper!
    If ya like bari sax dig my man Serge Chaloff


  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Love his playing on that live record with Donald Byrd:

    Hi, Graham,
    If you were a sax player in the 70's, this was soup du jour for all your gigs. Here's the incomparable Eddie Jefferson with his take on this great standard. Anyone know the sax player? Good playing . . . Marinero . . . geez, I get so easily sidetracked!



  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, Graham,
    If you were a sax player in the 70's, this was soup du jour for all your gigs. Here's the incomparable Eddie Jefferson with his take on this great standard. Anyone know the sax player? Good playing . . . Marinero . . . geez, I get so easily sidetracked!


    sounds like Richie Cole to me, he's on several Eddie Jefferson lps

  10. #9

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    Nice bari work by PA. My son played sax in high school jazz band, and he settled in with tenor, but I tried to get him to play bari, cause they were always in demand. I might have needed a car with a bigger trunk though...

    As far as Art Pepper, I always get him confused with Art Farmer. Art P is the guy who played sax and made great records, but was a total PITA in real life, as I recall. Not that that's too unusual for a jazz musician.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    .

    As far as Art Pepper, I always get him confused with Art Farmer. Art P is the guy who played sax and made great records, but was a total PITA in real life, as I recall. Not that that's too unusual for a jazz musician.
    an unfortunate way to remember art pepper...i read his bio-written by his wife- when it came out decades ago..sympathy was my first reaction...and so it remains...a great great player nevertheless

    one of his personal faves-winter moon



    cheers

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    an unfortunate way to remember art pepper...i read his bio-written by his wife- when it came out decades ago..sympathy was my first reaction...and so it remains...a great great player nevertheless

    one of his personal faves-winter moon



    cheers
    Bought that lp when it came out in early 80s. Much as I love his classic Meets The Rhythm Section [the date Laurie kept a secret from him until day of session!] that's probably my favorite lp as well.
    Haunting strings w spiralling alto.
    Howard Roberts gets a few short solos but makes them count.

    Now where have I heard that wintermoon before?

  13. #12

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    Yes it’s Richie Cole on the Eddie Jefferson track:

    Eddie Jefferson: "The Main Man" (Inner City 1033) - Jazz History Online

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    Bought that lp when it came out in early 80s. Much as I love his classic Meets The Rhythm Section [the date Laurie kept a secret from him until day of session!] that's probably my favorite lp as well.
    Haunting strings w spiralling alto.
    Howard Roberts gets a few short solos but makes them count.

    Now where have I heard that wintermoon before?
    Slight correction: Meets the Rhythm Section was the date Diane kept a secret. Laurie came along some years later, in Synanon.

    I have mixed feelings about Art Pepper's playing and Straight Life. Straight Life is moving, masterful storytelling (Laurie deserves a lot of credit for this), and I've read it over and over. But he's awfully self-aggrandizing and paranoid. Those two qualities (and prison life didn't help) could figure in his self-deluding feeling that he was rejected in the jazz world for being white, and a hate for blacks he developed (he had started out getting along peachy keen as a teen player on Central Avenue).

    As to Pepper the player: up and down for me. I love the honesty and rawness of the later stuff, but he seemed to think he was playing like Coltrane. Not to my ears, and a strange goal anyway. A lot of that stuff sounds forced and overblown. I'm not sure I buy it, though I know he was trying to evolve and he had a lot of pent-up rage from the prison experience and the artistic balls and honesty to play the way he felt.

    Even in his earlier, swinging playing I always got the feeling that he never finished his ideas. So I enjoyed the swinging, his sound, and originality when so many alto players were shamelessly aping Bird---but something was unsettled somehow.

    But, through it all, a truly interesting artist I always got something out of hearing...

  15. #14
    "But he's awfully self-aggrandizing and paranoid. Those two qualities (and prison life didn't help) could figure in his self-deluding feeling that he was rejected in the jazz world for being white, and a hate for blacks he developed (he had started out getting along peachy keen as a teen player on Central Avenue)." joelf


    Hi, Joel,
    This statement focuses on an age-old controversy in the Art world, namely: do we judge an artist by his work alone or do we factor his life into the total picture? For me, it is the former. Artists are complex people who cannot be judged or defined by the standards we use among the general population. They dance to a different drummer and, yet, there is always the temptation to use our own compass to steer THEIR boat. For me, this cannot be done. We look at artists like Balzac, Van Gogh, Poe, Mozart, Chet Baker, Bird, etc. and find lives in chaos and confusion. However, and despite their lives, they created great Art. So, for me, an Artist's work gives you pleasure, or it doesn't. Simple. His/her life, for me, has no consequence. In re: Art Pepper, I never listened very much to his music since my favorite alto players then and now were/are: Sonny Stitt, Sonny Criss, Bird, and Cannonball. Good playing . . . Marinero P.S. Why is it that we're always talking about dead musicians? Where are the young Jazz flames in the YTK burning the bushes?

  16. #15

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    Pepper Adams grabbed my ears almost 30 years ago with his gargantuan tone and nimble phrasing on "Alone Together", the opening cut from "Chet". Today the track blows me away even more. What a magical combination, Chet and Bill Evans playing lines like leaves fluttering down to the ground, and Pepper sounding like a growling boar, but still staying sensitive and restrained as he goes about his business.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    "But he's awfully self-aggrandizing and paranoid. Those two qualities (and prison life didn't help) could figure in his self-deluding feeling that he was rejected in the jazz world for being white, and a hate for blacks he developed (he had started out getting along peachy keen as a teen player on Central Avenue)." joelf


    Hi, Joel,
    This statement focuses on an age-old controversy in the Art world, namely: do we judge an artist by his work alone or do we factor his life into the total picture?
    Yeah, it's hard to separate the two, isn't it? But separate we must. Some of the greats (in all the arts and beyond) may not have been admirable people, but the work is the work. That's what's important, that's what's remembered.

    I used to read books as a teen, like Jazz Masters of the 40s, etc. I let these silly critical evaluations wash over me and influence my thinking. Took a while to get on track after that. Now I read great artist biogs and especially interviews. I let their words about their art wash over me, and get a lot out of that...

  18. #17

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    Pepper Adams lived not far from me in Canarsie, Brooklyn. One day I saw him sitting with horn on the L train. A conversation ensued. I found him a sweet and humble man. After a while he asked questions about my life, and what young cats generally do to break into the biz.

    A lovely man, aside from the memorable work...

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by joelf
    Pepper Adams lived not far from me in Canarsie, Brooklyn. One day I saw him sitting with horn on the L train. A conversation ensued. I found him a sweet and humble man. After a while he asked questions about my life, and what young cats generally do to break into the biz.

    A lovely man, aside from the memorable work...
    Geez, Joel . . . aren't you glad you didn't grow up in Nebraska? Neat story! Good playing . . . Marinero

  20. #19
    Here's the physically diminutive Pepper Adams with his monster sound on this wonderful classic. I was fortunate to see him live in Chicago at Joe Segal's Jazz Showcase back in the 70's. I brought a hipster friend to see him. Pepper was dressed like a washing machine salesman with slicked back hair and a plastic case with pencils in his shirt pocket. My friend smirked when he saw him until he put the horn to his lips. Pepper smoked the house for three sets. One of a kind! Good playing . . .Marinero


  21. #20
    Here's the physically diminutive Pepper Adams with his monster sound on this wonderful classic. I was fortunate to see him live in Chicago at Joe Segal's Jazz Showcase back in the 70's. I brought a hipster friend to see him. Pepper was dressed like a washing machine salesman with slicked back hair and a plastic case with pencils in his shirt pocket. My friend smirked when he saw him until he put the horn to his lips. Pepper smoked the house for three sets. One of a kind! Good playing . . .Marinero


  22. #21

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    art pepper was so enamored of coltrane that he switched from alto to tenor!!!...

    lots of interesting players in the chicago scene these days...dave rempis plays some bari



    cheers

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Geez, Joel . . . aren't you glad you didn't grow up in Nebraska? Marinero
    Of course---mostly (pre-jazz and all that) b/c I went to integrated JHS and HS schools, and had Jewish, Italian, Irish and black friends. A memorable childhood before, and especially after getting into music w/my buddies.

    But I know nothing of Nebraska. Maybe it would have been the same? I'll never know...

  24. #23

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    jazzers from nebraska...some goodies

    Category:Jazz musicians from Nebraska - Wikipedia

    hah

    cheers

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    jazzers from nebraska...some goodies

    Category:Jazz musicians from Nebraska - Wikipedia

    hah

    cheers
    Essiet Essiet? Who knew? Great guy, haven't seen him in many moon.

    He used to live upstairs in Sunset Park, Brooklyn from my drummer chum Rudy Petschauer. Told me the groaner joke about 'I Left my Heart in Stan Fran's Disco'---and I've never stopped repeating it, death threats notwithstanding...

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    jazzers from nebraska...some goodies

    Category:Jazz musicians from Nebraska - Wikipedia

    hah

    cheers
    Thanks!

    Not to quibble, but Steve Turre was born in Omaha but raised in California. However, Omaha had an interesting melting pot of Italian and Mexican immigrants at the time, hence his parents getting together to make a little Stevie.

    Glenn Miller was born in Clarinda, IA—I used to work there once a month and did visit his house, which is open for tours. He lived in Nebraska until he was 11, then moved to Colorado.

    There are some pretty good local musicians. One of the ones I know (and took lessons from) is George Walker, who toured with Lou Rawls. He plays solo and small group gigs around town.

    Omaha admittedly is not the most happening jazz place right now, though in the post-war years it was a staple of the Midwest circuit. The most famous current Omaha musician is Conor Oberst. His guitar tech and business partner bought a vintage bass from me about 2 years ago.

    Sorry to derail the thread...who were we talking about again? Pepper Adams? Lovely, lovely sound and chops. He died way too soon. Thanks for bringing him to our attention.

  27. #26

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    Some good stuff from Ms. Laurie Pepper's website: cuts featuring Art's '70s quartet and a club jam session featuring Art and Warne Marsh:

    FREE MUSIC! BUY MUSIC!

  28. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    jazzers from nebraska...some goodies

    Category:Jazz musicians from Nebraska - Wikipedia

    hah

    cheers

    Hi, N,
    "From" and "living in Nebraska" are two different things. Chet Baker was born in Yale, Oklahoma. I wonder what his musical opportunities would have been if he stayed. The only two names I recognized from the Nebraska list were Patricia Barber(born in Chicago??) and Steve Turre(raised in SF, Cali). I wonder how long they stayed? I guess my humor failed. . . I've been guilty of that in the past. Well, can you find the Jazz club in the picture below? I'll try again! Good playing . . . Marinero

    Google Image Result for https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/journalstar.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/85/a859f359-0c51-5792-aa08-63162b589f48/55f32d453ee2c.image.jpgGoogle Image Result for https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/journalstar.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/85/a859f359-0c51-5792-aa08-63162b589f48/55f32d453ee2c.image.jpg

  29. #28

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    Most famous players were born one place and moved someplace else to get away from the tragedy of life in a backwater. Just read that Lester Young was born in rural Mississippi. We wouldn't be reading about him if he had stayed there.

    However, I think some players take a bit of their background with them wherever they go, like Louis Armstrong.

    I don't know about Chet--he really seems California in his sound, though he sure looked like a beat-down Okie as he aged.

    There aren't a lot of players that I think have a rural midwest sound. Pat Metheny and Charlie Haden come to mind.

  30. #29

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    [QUOTE=Marinero;1011023]Hi, N,
    I guess my humor failed. . . I've been guilty of that in the past. /QUOTE]

    and you think i was serious???

    hah

    cheers

    ps- jerry hahn is a great guitar player on that list...used to write column for guitar player..smart cat...well respected

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    There aren't a lot of players that I think have a rural midwest sound. Pat Metheny and Charlie Haden come to mind.
    Missouri means Kansas City, not exactly the boonies when it comes to jazz history.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Missouri means Kansas City, not exactly the boonies when it comes to jazz history.
    Well I realize that but there’s urban KC and Midwestern KC. People like Charlie Parker (also KC) brought an urban vibe to their playing. So did Miles (though he understood something about ambience).

    There are very few jazzers who bring what I would call a rural or midwestern sensibility to their playing. That has to do with space between the notes in the music and ambience. Think of Metheny’s Bright Size Life songs or his duo album with Charlie Haden. Bill Frisell comes to mind as well. He grew up in Denver, not exactly Midwest, but definitely more of a Big Sky kind of place.

  33. #32

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    midwestern sensibility in playing?
    new one on me....

  34. #33

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    ^ george barnes of south chicago heights, illinois



    cheers

  35. #34

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    So midwestern sensibility is country jazz style playing?
    We know Barnes was from Chicago but sounds like southern style playing to me, Atkins, Travis, Maphis, Bryant, Lanham, etc
    That country jazz lp, which I have, isn't really indicative of the majority of Barnes output

  36. #35

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    was only funnin wm

    south chicago heights is actually about 30 miles from chicago proper.. woulda been a small hicksville town when barnes was born

    having said that, barnes was no hipster...not big apple or west coast sounding player!! he was always a bit different...idiosyncratic...great player tho!

    hah

    cheers

  37. #36

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    Agreed, don't think I ever heard him hit a clam, super precise technique
    One of those players you immediately recognize after a few bars, big fan!

  38. #37

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    there's a great radio show of early bing crosby...a radio broadcast of him on tour from chicago...he introduces george barnes..bing was blown away by barnes playing and wanted to take him on the road with him..but barnes was a local guy and didn't do it..but bing really loved his playing

    cheers

  39. #38

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    yeah, der Bingle loved guitar players, his pal Eddie Lang, Carl Kress, Eddie Condon, Les Paul, Johnny Smith, etc...

  40. #39

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    The whole thing in this thread about where players are from seems to come from neatomic's reaction to Joel's interactions to players in his neighborhood.

    From that perspective, it seems more à propos to talk about where a player was living during his or her formative (jazz) years.

    Pepper Adams started playing music in Columbia Park, IN, and then moved to Rochester, NY. As a teenager, he listened extensively to jazz, went to local concerts to see Duke Ellington, and somehow managed to get sax lessons from Skippy Williams. He started playing professionally at 16, and moved to Detroit.

    At the time I started getting interested in the guitar, it was the middle of the folk revival. I lived within bicycling distance of Reverend Gary Davis, and an easy subway ride from Dave Van Ronk, both of whom were giving inexpensive lessons to anyone who showed up. But I was completely unaware; unaware, even, that people could actually take lessons in guitar playing – didn't guitar players just teach themselves?

    So living in proximity to musical greats can be instructive, enlightening, and transformative; but it seems that an awful lot of successful musicians found mentors in unlikely places.

    A friend of mine grew up in an apartment next door to Max Roach, who became a very close family friend. My friend would talk to him constantly, even calling him from Paris during a semester abroad. But my friend, who loves jazz, never had the slightest urge to play any instrument whatsoever.

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukena
    The whole thing in this thread about where players are from seems to come from neatomic's reaction to Joel's interactions to players in his neighborhood.

    From that perspective, it seems more à propos to talk about where a player was living during his or her formative (jazz) years.

    Pepper Adams started playing music in Columbia Park, IN, and then moved to Rochester, NY. As a teenager, he listened extensively to jazz, went to local concerts to see Duke Ellington, and somehow managed to get sax lessons from Skippy Williams. He started playing professionally at 16, and moved to Detroit.

    At the time I started getting interested in the guitar, it was the middle of the folk revival. I lived within bicycling distance of Reverend Gary Davis, and an easy subway ride from Dave Van Ronk, both of whom were giving inexpensive lessons to anyone who showed up. But I was completely unaware; unaware, even, that people could actually take lessons in guitar playing – didn't guitar players just teach themselves?

    So living in proximity to musical greats can be instructive, enlightening, and transformative; but it seems that an awful lot of successful musicians found mentors in unlikely places.

    A friend of mine grew up in an apartment next door to Max Roach, who became a very close family friend. My friend would talk to him constantly, even calling him from Paris during a semester abroad. But my friend, who loves jazz, never had the slightest urge to play any instrument whatsoever.
    Great post.

    Once upon a time the 'stars' were your neighbors---and not so full of themselves.

    The guys I grew up w/in Canarsie, Brooklyn, also in some cases did pretty well for themselves. Warren Cuccarula (never could spell his name right!) went on to fame and fortune with Frank Zappa; Duran Duran, and his own groups. Used to hang out in his basement, summer of '74. He was always 'fast', and knew what he wanted. He got it! Alan Childs (formerly Schildkraut---his uncle was the great alto player Dave Schildkraut, another story for another day about meeting him) became a top rock road rat who toured with David Bowie and I don't know who-all else. Later I knew Mark Rivera---OK, from Bensonhurst, but still...We had a hilarious ride home from a gig in the Catskills, coasting most of the way on 47 cents of gas and a carton of Tropicana. He started hanging out with Dave Sanborn, and before you could say 'Butterfield' he was touring or performing one-offs with Simon and Garfunkel (he's on the 1st Central Park Concert) and John Lennon (a TV show where the band wore images of their fronts on their backs). Bobby Lenti, still one of my best friends and producer of the 2 CDs I made in his home studio, was in the late '70s part of a successful group: Johnny's Dance Band. Then, in nearby E. NY, was Hollis 'Jay' Gouge. His band was Exit 9. They made at least one pretty good recording. I was in that group for a hot minute, also auditioned for Brass Construction and was hired, but went to Tuscon that summer of '72 instead. At 400 Cozine Avenue was Larry Ridley (didn't meet him til years later) and guitar-playing John Prescott (I 'liberated' his copy of So Much Guitar) and his WRVR (I think) DJ sister Pat.

    The others may not have been in such high-profile situations, but most did OK and are still active. My own career has had its ups and downs and I'll take it. Wouldn't trade places with anyone. But what formative years with these wonderful people!

  42. #41
    The term "original" is very misleading. We all have conscious/subconscious elements that effect who we are as sentient beings and how we develop/play as musicians. As in any field, the greater the stimulus, the greater opportunity to grow . . . ergo, Jazz and Classical musicians leaving places of intellectual isolation for those areas which provide more opportunities and stimulus. And, the examples are countless. Cities like LA, New York, and to a lesser extent, Chicago, are good examples. A quality seed will never grow in sand. It needs an enriched soil to germinate and grow. Good playing . . . Marinero