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  1. #1

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    New White Album reissue--remastered, with a couple dozen demos and alternate takes that really illuminate the creative process.

    That was the first Beatles album I bought on vinyl, in the mid-70's. Still enjoy every song even to this day.

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  3. #2

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    Even Wild Honey Pie?

    I interpret that song as double album filler material, and just jackin' around.

  4. #3

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    No reply but one so I'd thought I'd let you know: love it myself and still listen to it. We even play a tune or two from that album with our classic rock band.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    New White Album reissue--remastered, with a couple dozen demos and alternate takes that really illuminate the creative process.

    That was the first Beatles album I bought on vinyl, in the mid-70's. Still enjoy every song even to this day.
    Every song?

    Must be love.

  6. #5

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    I like the cover.

  7. #6

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    Here is something I learned about the white LP, each LP Abby Road The white and Let it Be where all recorded at the same time and the individual Tracks where picked out for each One,and they where produced to fit the LP style

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    I like the cover.
    Me too! In fact, I liked it so much, I had a T-shirt made of it!

    The Beatles White Album-od-bo055_tshirt_8s_20170523101232-jpg

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    Even Wild Honey Pie?

    I interpret that song as double album filler material, and just jackin' around.
    Yep. Honey Pie and Wild Honey Pie.

  10. #9

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    Thanks for the heads up on that new White Album release.

    Always liked that album but to tell you the truth, it's hard for me to think of a Beatle's album that I didn't like!

    Where that kind of creativity comes from is just baffling to me.

  11. #10

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    I didn't know this until later that the Latin word for white is "albus" (masculine), "alba" (feminine) "album" (neuter).

    An "alb" is the white garment altar servers wear in a Catholic Church. The albatross in "Ryme of the Ancient Mariner" is a large white bird.

    So the name "white album" is funny to me in a way it wasn't before.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    Yep. Honey Pie and Wild Honey Pie.
    Honey Pie is a great song. When I play Honey Pie, for the solos I go into a vamp based on Stomping at the Decca since the chord progressions are very similar and I like that 'hot' kind of music.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I didn't know this until later that the Latin word for white is "albus" (masculine), "alba" (feminine) "album" (neuter).

    An "alb" is the white garment altar servers wear in a Catholic Church. The albatross in "Ryme of the Ancient Mariner" is a large white bird.

    So the name "white album" is funny to me in a way it wasn't before.
    You know I took 5 years of Latin in high school, so I should have thought of this before. The world "album" is derived from the adjectival noun use of that word as a "white thing", i.e., blank slate.

    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    Honey Pie is a great song. When I play Honey Pie, for the solos I go into a vamp based on Stomping at the Decca since the chord progressions are very similar and I like that 'hot' kind of music.
    Most people don't know that John Lennon played the solo on this song, though as I recall he didn't like this song or most of Paul's really pop-oriented stuff on the album. He also hated Obladi-Oblada (as did the other Beatles) but played the sing-song piano part.

    They were each pushing the envelope as songwriters and trying to impress their peers in the band. Even though they were moving apart personally, they all had major contributions to each other's songs, sometimes in unusual ways, i.e., George playing 6-string bass on BITUSSR. And Paul played drums on that one and a couple of others.

    In the end what we're left with is 4 of the best songwriters of their generation with free reign in one of the best studios in the world with no time or money limits.

  14. #13

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    The Esther demos and. Some of. The other content is so expressive. The remix of the album and the Sgt Pepper remix are super. Masters is an understatement. Geniuses maybe more appropriate.

  15. #14

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    Number 9

  16. #15

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    Number 9

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I didn't know this until later that the Latin word for white is "albus" (masculine), "alba" (feminine) "album" (neuter).

    An "alb" is the white garment altar servers wear in a Catholic Church. The albatross in "Ryme of the Ancient Mariner" is a large white bird.

    So the name "white album" is funny to me in a way it wasn't before.
    "Album" means "blank book", it''s blank, empty... then you put something in it ...

    ... early 17th century: from Latin, neuter of albus ‘white’ used as a noun meaning ‘a blank tablet’. Taken into English from the German use of the Latin phrase album amicorum ‘album of friends’ (a blank book in which autographs, drawings, poems, etc. were collected), it was originally used consciously as a Latin word.

  18. #17

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    Just out of high school I worked at an amusement park--ran The Scrambler. Great for making people puke, but not great for meeting girls--that would be the roller coaster or ferris wheel. Anyway, I ran into a strawberry blonde gal named Connie who had been on my swim team a few years before. At 14 she was cute; at 18 she was a knockout, in a feracious farmer's daughter kind of way.

    I persuaded her to go on a date with me after I got off work. I had my Dad's old '71 Bonneville, and we ended up on some rural dirt road, where we found a quiet place to park and, uh, talk. That car had acres of back seat, by the way. The local prog rock radio station was playing the White Album in its entirety. So far, so good. It was a hot, humid night, the mood was pleasant, and I had hit a single, on my way to steal second. (Wow what a kisser--one of the top 3 I have known for sure. She had just gotten her braces off.)

    Then, the song Revolution 9 came on. What had been a slow boil of youthful ardor quickly turned cold. I think her exact words were, "What is that s*** on the radio? You know, it's late now, and I've gotta work tomorrow. Please take me home." Which, being the woke guy that I was and am, I did.

    Many love affairs have been consummated to Hey Jude, many children conceived to Something, but in my mind Side 4 of the White Album will forever be associated with being thrown out at second base.
    Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 12-13-2018 at 04:25 PM.

  19. #18

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    Great Album... We used to play "Back In the USSR" with our band
    I learned "Martha my Dear" to serenade (before she was) my wife..
    Found out later Paul write it for his dog..

  20. #19

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    Number 9

  21. #20

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    number 9..ohhh dear.."...they are trying to tell us something.." the "hippies" read so many things into that track..conspiracies..the end of the world..on and on it went..of course it helped if you indulged in the mind altering substance of the day and if you played it backwards..all the secret codes were revealed..
    Last edited by wolflen; 12-14-2018 at 08:02 PM.

  22. #21

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    Paul is dead

  23. #22

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    Loved the White Album. Still do. The whimsy and the wacky alike are part of the charm. YMMV. Its cool.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen
    number 9..ohhh dear.."...they are trying to tell us something.." the "hippies" read so many things into that track..conspiracies..the end of the world..on and on it went..of course it helped if you indulged in the mind altering substance of the day and if you played it backwards..all the secret cods were revealed..
    Can't play it backwards on a CD...

    :-(

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    Can't play it backwards on a CD...

    :-(
    Doc...see: mind altering substance of the day ..?no cd player required...

  26. #25

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    While my guitar gently weeps..... tears me to pieces every time

  27. #26

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    "In the end what we're left with is 4 of the best songwriters of their generation with free reign in one of the best studios in the world with no time or money limits." Dr. Jeff

    Well, Doc,
    Anyone who quotes Freddy N. is a friend of mine! However, I would like to rewrite the above quote for greater precision:

    "In the end what we're left with is 4 of the best(Kiddy Rock) songwriters of their generation . . . " I never saw the great melodies, lyrics, or creativity that others worship and to compare them to say Hoagy Carmichel or any of the great Jazz writers, is disingenuous. Here's Nat with Hoagy's "Stardust." "We all live in a yellow submarine . . . yellow submarine, yellow submarine ?????????"
    Good playing . . . Marinero

    ?
    Last edited by Marinero; 01-26-2020 at 11:23 AM. Reason: addition

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    "[COLOR=#000000]I ... I never saw the great melodies, lyrics, or creativity that others worship and to compare them to say Hoagy Carmichel or any of the great Jazz writers, is disingenuous...
    Sorry, but are you blind?

    Today I tried to play Ticket to Ride. Not from White, but well ...I did it from memory of the tune, never before I played it, haven't listened to it for decades (try that with jazz standard).

    Melody and intro are kind of simple, but in a good way. Just like Giant Steps melody is simple. It is actually one very witty, clever and inspiring piece. Melody is mostly made of extensions, at least 7ths and suspensions (as far as to chords I came up with). Intro riff is almost all chord notes (with 9), but is syncopated in a kind of reverse groove way, you'd only expect from sampled cut ups in electronic and techno music.
    There is groove, there is blues ... And so on.
    The only thing it does not have is flashy billboard up yor face. It does not scream "I am blues", "I am groovie", "I am clever". However, when you try to think of why it is so good, you realise it is all there, in lots.

    Lyrics, I will not comnent, but let's say, it could be about me and my wife, only she do care and I am still around.
    Last edited by Vladan; 01-26-2020 at 02:18 PM.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    Sorry, but are you blind?

    Today I tried to play Ticket to Ride. Not from White, but well ...I did it from memory of the tune, never before I played it, haven't listened to it for decades (try that with jazz standard).

    Melody and intro are kind of simple, but in a good way. Just like Giant Steps melody is simple. It is actually one very witty, clever and inspiring piece. Melody is mostly made of extensions, at least 7ths and suspensions (as far as to chords I came up with). Intro riff is almost all chord notes (with 9), but is syncopated in a kind of reverse groove way, you'd only expect from sampled cut ups in electronic and techno music.
    There is groove, there is blues ... And so on.
    The only thing it does not have is flashy billboard up yor face. It does not scream "I am blues", "I am groovie", "I am clever". However, when you try to think of why it is so good, you realise it is all there, in lots.

    Lyrics, I will not comnent, but let's say, it could be about me and my wife, only she do care and I am still around.
    I'm sure you know that people like to go over-the-top at chat forums. This is what we are seeing here (but not from you, since I find your post to be well balanced), from both "camps".

    As it relates to chord progressions and chord voicing, most of their songs are fairly vanilla. Yea, they will use non-triads but those are mostly by Paul in songs that aren't "rock songs"; E.g Michelle. Ok, but so what. As for melody; I find that very subjective. The bottom line for me is that I enjoy most of their melodies over those chord progressions. The fact that most are not complex is irrelevant.

    As for comparing songwriters; I don't see what is gained by doing so and unless I missed something no one compared Paul or John to Hoagy Carmichael or any of the others from his generation like Porter, Kerns, etc... While I view Stardust as one of the best written songs of the 20th century that doesn't mean songs written by others are kid stuff. But alas putting down others with over-the-top comments is a past time for some.

  30. #29

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    Any one listen to the remastered version on a full range stereo system? So far I have not run into many remastered albums that I have enjoyed. Not sure if its the quality of mix or if there is a bias towards the original mix.

    In general, it seems a lot of audio reviewers seem to believe a lot of newer mixes have been done to raise volumes, add compression, and make things sound good on today's portable devices.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielleOM
    Any one listen to the remastered version on a full range stereo system? So far I have not run into many remastered albums that I have enjoyed. Not sure if its the quality of mix or if there is a bias towards the original mix.

    In general, it seems a lot of audio reviewers seem to believe a lot of newer mixes have been done to raise volumes, add compression, and make things sound good on today's portable devices.
    Yea, it is rather odd that the vast majority of music today is listened to using devices that have much lower fidelity than, devises (systems) from say 30 years ago. I still have an old fashion system with separate JBL speakers etc... and this is what I use for so-called serious listening.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    "In the end what we're left with is 4 of the best songwriters of their generation with free reign in one of the best studios in the world with no time or money limits." Dr. Jeff

    Well, Doc,
    Anyone who quotes Freddy N. is a friend of mine! However, I would like to rewrite the above quote for greater precision:

    "In the end what we're left with is 4 of the best(Kiddy Rock) songwriters of their generation . . . " I never saw the great melodies, lyrics, or creativity that others worship and to compare them to say Hoagy Carmichel or any of the great Jazz writers, is disingenuous. Here's Nat with Hoagy's "Stardust." "We all live in a yellow submarine . . . yellow submarine, yellow submarine ?????????"
    Good playing . . . Marinero

    ?
    For every iconic tune like Stardust that Carmichael wrote, he wrote 30 daffy tin pan alley tunes to try and keep the money flowing in. Kind of like the Beatles trying to sell records, or anyone else.


  33. #32

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    Well, I want to be careful in my remarks since I had a very successful discussion of the Beetles on JGF that was eventually deleted because it got "too hot". So, my response to those who disagree with my remarks is simple: we all see the world through our eyes based on our life's experiences. I believe the Beatle's listening audience, from the beginning, was pre-adolescent/adolescent/teen girls. We all remember the news clips when they arrived in the US and the throngs of screaming girls who met them at the airport. Later music, as well as the earlier music mentioned, appealed to a predominately white, suburban, middle/upper middle class teen listener irrespective of their later movement away from their predominately Rock and Roll beginnings. It appealed to them. It spoke their language. It mimed their views. Simple. So, in translation for me, it is very limited popular music that appealed to the masses ergo . . . their success. I can never remember those crowds screaming for Miles, Dizzy, Trane, Baker, Gordon, or Horowitz, Segovia, Rubenstein, etc. however, THEY weren't playing Beatles tunes for their bread and butter(thank god!). Good playing . . . Marinero

  34. #33

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    Many jazz musicians covered Beatles tunes for $, Chet Baker, Count Basie, etc.
    If you go back to Sinatra circa 1940 w/ Dorsey, the bobbysoxers were young girls screaming for Frankie.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    Many jazz musicians covered Beatles tunes for $, Chet Baker, Count Basie, etc.
    If you go back to Sinatra circa 1940 w/ Dorsey, the bobbysoxers were young girls screaming for Frankie.
    Hi, W,
    Sadly, you're right. And, it was when Jazzers were dropping out in hordes for lack of self-sustaining, paying gigs, Disco was replacing live music in clubs, and many Jazzers were looking for a way to SURVIVE. Ergo, those tragic times. I remember those sad days and serious musicians trying to be "relevant" playing jazzed up pop tunes including the Beatles. Most were failed ventures artistically, and only a few like Wes, Grover, Ramsey, to name a few, had some relative success with the music. But, it was hardly their bread and butter and rather a "crowd pleaser"--my opinion---dumbing down to the masses.
    In regards to girls screaming for Frankie---he was singing behind the gifted bands of Dorsey and Harry James and singing tunes as "Polka Dots and Moonbeams," "Imagination," "I'll Never Smile Again," "People Will Say We're in Love," etc., etc., etc.--hardly on the same level as the Fab Four and their garage band sound. Oh, well. There's no right or wrong in taste . . . only what YOU like. I never liked the Beatles. Never will like the Beatles. Just my two cents. Playing again . . . Marinero

  36. #35

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    I think I'm not a normal person. I was 17 in 1968 when this "White Album" was released. I think I only know two tracks: Back in the U.S.S.R. and Blackbird, because Bobby McFerrin. No recollection of the other titles. I never bought any Beatles records. I kept my money for Duke Ellington, Monk, Mingus, Coltrane... But at the time, it was inevitable, we danced on Michelle, Yellow Submarine, Eleanor Rigby, Lady Madonna ...

    « On n'est pas sérieux quand on a 17 ans. » Rimbaud

  37. #36

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    I will resist the urge to go back and forth about every single point, but a couple of observations.

    I love Frank Sinatra and I love big bands. They could pick from the absolute best songwriters of the day. Much of such music was transcendent, some was trivial. (Polka Dots and Moonbeams--excellent melody and chord progression, infantile lyrics.) However the big bands were so of their time that a mere 20 years later no cool person would be caught dead with a big band album. Maybe that's tragic, but it's true.

    And yet 50 years after the Beatles BROKE UP so many people still feel the loss, even as our kids become fanatics about the Fab Four. (At least mine are.)

    BTW Frank eventually gave in and did a fair amount of 60's stuff, some execrable like Downtown, but he also did Yesterday and Something by you know who.

    As far as the Beatles, I think one cannot paint with too broad a brush, because they progressed incredibly in the space of half a decade. I still listen to their early records and still find them enjoyable and with a certain uniqueness...the intro to Dr. Roberts or Hard Day's Night, the final suspended chord of I Want to Hold Your Hand. Maybe they're not sophisticated songs, but who in the business wouldn't have given an arm or leg to write such simple songs? The phrase "it's harder than it looks" is an understatement.

    Many of their songs convey a truly philosophical worldview that like a Buddhist koan is deceptively simple. She Said, Within Me Without You, Tomorrow Never Knows, etc. I wrote a college term paper on the influence of Eastern mysticism on 60's popular music, including many Beatles songs.

    The White Album is probably the best example of a band that is bursting at the seams with musical ideas. There is just so much there. I realize I'm not going to convince someone who doesn't like it to like it, but an album that included While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Blackbird, Julia, Helter Skelter, and Revolution should be considered as one of the pinnacles of 60's pop music.

  38. #37

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    As far as the production of the remaster, this is different from a lot of remasters. I think TWA like most Beatles records was originally mastered and mixed for mono, then later remixed for stereo. The latter was usually done fairly slapdash and AFAIK without any input from the Beatles themselves.

    The recent reissue was an opportunity to do a more thorough and attentive engineering, under the direction of George Martin's son Giles. From what I have read and heard it was a pretty subtle reworking and modernizing. From the Billboard article:

    "The remixed album isn’t quite the revelation that the deluxe version of Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band was last year -- but that’s to be expected. Pepper was a heavily orchestrated album that producer Martin admitted suffered from mediocre conversion to stereo; by the time they got to The White Album, The Beatles were much more adept at studio recording.

    "That’s not to say there aren’t sonic high points -- the bass and drums are much more powerful and warm on tracks like “Glass Onion” and “…Gently Weeps,” and the vocal mix is stronger on the lilting harmonies of “Dear Prudence.” Lennon’s abrasive “Yer Blues” vocal is laden with more reverb here but loses none of its immediacy; and Harrison’s “Savoy Truffle’ has a more prominent low end, amplifying the overall heaviness of the record. It’s noticeable, non-intrusive work, and Giles Martin deserves praise for how beautifully rendered the remixes are."

  39. #38

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    I was a big fan as a kid... The Beatles brought me into music and into guitar...
    It was much later their pick days - it 80's. Even now I remember almost every song in details

    As per comparison with earlier big band era, I thiink once I noticed one important thing: there is difference in melodic compising between pop music of 30s- 50s and pop and rock starting form 60s.

    If I take Great America Songbook stadanrds I see mostly melodic movements strongly influenced by 'light classical music' - that was a part of salon culture, and also cabaret, variete culture. Mostly becasue composers were brought up in that enviroment
    What I am trying to say - if we look carefull at the songs like Stardust, Body and Soul, Nearness of You, Stella... ,Polka Dots and many many others -- we will see typical melodic and motivic phrases that were common for classical music probably from the renaissance day...
    the melodies and motives are often expressive by itself.
    (Maybe only Cole Porter is great exception! All the others are more or less following that conception.)
    I think this is one od teh reasons it turned out to be such a conventional material for jazz playing, for covering, for cultural references (as GAS became with years).

    Rock era was much influenced by folk styles which have different more speach-like melodicism, there was also a strong focus on lyrics - - singing poets liked Dylan cared more about lyrics than melodicism.

    Melodies in general becom much more connected with particular harmony behind, arrangement, even player, his peronal phrasing and style.
    And often lose much of their charm beign separated from taht context,

    By the way I think Paul - though he also was different from earlier days already - still was conventional in his music language, he could use complex changes and so on but it was like a consinuation of the earlier tradition and that is why his songs are easier to cover.
    John may seem simpler but actually he is much more unpredictable and his songs are much more connected with his personality and style of playing and singing.

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrethorst
    Are you speaking of the remasters done in 2009, or have there been later ones?

    John R.
    Err... the 50th anniversary edition that spawned the whole thread?

  41. #40

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    BTW all those who think that the Beatles' music is simple should delve into what is still the authoritative musicological description of their complete output: http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/...projects.shtml

    And as to Garage band sound - may be true of their first records, but if your only impression of the Beatles is from the Ed Sullivan days, you've missed out on a lot. Abbey Road sounds sublime, even before the Anniversary edition.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    BTW all those who think that the Beatles' music is simple should delve into what is still the authoritative musicological description of their complete output: The twelve recording projects of the Beatles

    And as to Garage band sound - may be true of their first records, but if your only impression of the Beatles is from the Ed Sullivan days, you've missed out on a lot. Abbey Road sounds sublime, even before the Anniversary edition.
    I wish I had their garage...

  43. #42

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    No musician or musical group grabbed the world like The Beatles. They where the voice of an entire generation not locally or in the US, but worldwide .. and the next one too as we grew up with parents listening to The Beatles.

    Art is something that moves people .. but there is always going to be "academic" types that belittle stuff, cos they have standards. What ok .. The entire world disagrees with you, but sure .. sit and pout

  44. #43

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    The Beatles are great not only in obvious things - like some - suddenly complex - harmonic solutions etc.

    Most interestingly they show themselves in things that seem simple

    Even early song...

    I Wanna Hold Your Hand - by ear it sounds tasty but raltively simple... for example chords like I-V-VI-III are very common but if we relate melody and phrasing of it toi these chords we will see how untypical the organization of it... the most common melodic phrasing in such changes is whent it goes to VI chord... but here we have instead the countepoint guitar riff going there and them melody phrases show in absolutely unexpected places...
    Also III7 before refrain going to IV is very interesting ... it is not uncommon as a sequence but where it shows up is interesting... the thing that shows up much later in Imagine

    I'll Be Back is an absolute gem of John... complex three part form, exquisite harmonic and melodic solutions that corresponds so great with the meaning of the lyrics


    It Won't Be Long - it is often mentioned becaus of cadence in the end... but I think the song itslef is very tricky though seems simple.
    It opens weith what seems to be refraine.... I believe that melodic idea is very inventive here for such chord changes...
    then the chorus is made of simple repeated pharses supported by guitar riff that sounds like 'tails' like repeated conclusion of something.
    And the song has relaxed and more spacious and more convemtional bridge


    many other songs too

  45. #44

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    In a former life ,which might seem like the Paleolithic to many of our readers, I taught Literature for a brief time in the early 70's. And, one of the topics that was popular among many of the students was the brilliance of the Beatles music and lyrics. My initial response was that without the music, the lyrics, were quite pedestrian, in many cases-boring and certainly not literature or even good writing for that matter. So, as a project, I asked the students to bring in the lyrics of the song they liked the best and after careful study, most of them agreed that without the music, the lyrics could not stand alone and ,in many cases. were not very interesting. So, in good fun . . . what are your favorite lyrics that showcase the Beatles literary creativity? Perhaps I've missed something all these years. Good playing . . . Marinero

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    In a former life ,which might seem like the Paleolithic to many of our readers, I taught Literature for a brief time in the early 70's. And, one of the topics that was popular among many of the students was the brilliance of the Beatles music and lyrics. My initial response was that without the music, the lyrics, were quite pedestrian, in many cases-boring and certainly not literature or even good writing for that matter. So, as a project, I asked the students to bring in the lyrics of the song they liked the best and after careful study, most of them agreed that without the music, the lyrics could not stand alone and ,in many cases. were not very interesting. So, in good fun . . . what are your favorite lyrics that showcase the Beatles literary creativity? Perhaps I've missed something all these years. Good playing . . . Marinero
    well ... songs are not expected to be real poetry.

    Good lyrics is the one that works well with music... pop lyrics can use cliches which can be a part of aesthertics.

    I would not care to study The Beatles lyrics without musical context... it does not make much sense to me.

  47. #46

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    Wednesday morning at five o'clock
    As the day begins
    Silently closing her bedroom door
    Leaving the note that she hoped would say more

    She goes downstairs to the kitchen
    Clutching her handkerchief
    Quietly turning the backdoor key
    Stepping outside, she is free

    She (we gave her most of our lives)
    Is leaving (sacrificed most of our lives)
    Home (we gave her everything money could buy)
    She's leaving home, after living alone, for so many years (bye bye)

    Father snores as his wife gets into her dressing gown
    Picks up the letter that's lying there
    Standing alone at the top of the stairs
    She breaks down and cries to her husband
    "Daddy, our baby's gone.
    "Why would she treat us so thoughtlessly?
    How could she do this to me?"

    She (we never thought of ourselves)
    Is leaving (never a thought for ourselves)
    Home (we struggled hard all our lives to get by)
    She's leaving home, after living alone, for so many years

    Friday morning, at nine o'clock
    She is far away
    Waiting to keep the appointment she made
    Meeting a man from the Motortrade

    She (what did we do that was wrong)
    Is Having (we didn't know it was wrong)
    Fun (fun is the one thing that money can't buy)

    Something inside, that was always denied, for so many years

    She's leaving home, bye, bye...


    I’m sure everyone reading these lyrics can picture the young woman going down the stairs and out the door, and the faces of her crestfallen parents. One may even get a little teary-eyed thinking about the pain of separation, especially if you’ve had children grow up and leave the house.

    A complete story, you can see it in your mind. The rhymes are clever and not so pedestrian. When was “motor trade” ever used in a song?

    Of course it’s inseparable from the music. That’s the nature of a song.

    Well I’m no English professor, but IMO it compares favorably to a lot of well-known British poetry from the 20th Century such as Auden’s The Unknown Citizen, which I think someone recorded to music as well. Now THAT poem is overrated.

    This is a simple example. One could look at their more complex songs, even “nonsense” songs, and find many levels of sophistication. I Am the Walrus, Lucy in the Sky, For the Benefit of Mr. Kite... cf ”Anyone lived in a pretty howtown, with up so floating many bells down” (AE Housman)...

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    Wednesday morning at five o'clock
    As the day begins
    Silently closing her bedroom door
    Leaving the note that she hoped would say more

    She goes downstairs to the kitchen
    Clutching her handkerchief
    Quietly turning the backdoor key
    Stepping outside, she is free

    She (we gave her most of our lives)
    Is leaving (sacrificed most of our lives)
    Home (we gave her everything money could buy)
    She's leaving home, after living alone, for so many years (bye bye)

    Father snores as his wife gets into her dressing gown
    Picks up the letter that's lying there
    Standing alone at the top of the stairs
    She breaks down and cries to her husband
    "Daddy, our baby's gone.
    "Why would she treat us so thoughtlessly?
    How could she do this to me?"

    She (we never thought of ourselves)
    Is leaving (never a thought for ourselves)
    Home (we struggled hard all our lives to get by)
    She's leaving home, after living alone, for so many years

    Friday morning, at nine o'clock
    She is far away
    Waiting to keep the appointment she made
    Meeting a man from the Motortrade

    She (what did we do that was wrong)
    Is Having (we didn't know it was wrong)
    Fun (fun is the one thing that money can't buy)

    Something inside, that was always denied, for so many years

    She's leaving home, bye, bye...


    I’m sure everyone reading these lyrics can picture the young woman going down the stairs and out the door, and the faces of her crestfallen parents. One may even get a little teary-eyed thinking about the pain of separation, especially if you’ve had children grow up and leave the house.

    A complete story, you can see it in your mind. The rhymes are clever and not so pedestrian. When was “motor trade” ever used in a song?

    Of course it’s inseparable from the music. That’s the nature of a song.

    Well I’m no English professor, but IMO it compares favorably to a lot of well-known British poetry from the 20th Century such as Auden’s The Unknown Citizen, which I think someone recorded to music as well. Now THAT poem is overrated.

    This is a simple example. One could look at their more complex songs, even “nonsense” songs, and find many levels of sophistication. I Am the Walrus, Lucy in the Sky, For the Benefit of Mr. Kite... cf ”Anyone lived in a pretty howtown, with up so floating many bells down” (AE Housman)...
    first tune that popped into my head!

  49. #48

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    Hi, Doc,
    I would agree with your assessment of Auden and the Beatle verse. Auden, although heralded by some literati, was a second rate poet . . . especially in comparison to Yeats and T.S. Eliot who were the real deal. It is always interesting to look back over the years and see which artists have staying power ,artistically, and those who powers can be described as ,perhaps, banal and of only a historical interest. For me, Auden falls into that category and . . . yes, the Beatles in regards to SERIOUS ART. But, I am certainly in the minority on this Forum and will never be able to transform an apple into a cherry in my mind . . . unless, of course, like Dr. Faustus, I resort to necromancy. Good playing . . .Marinero

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    In a former life ,which might seem like the Paleolithic to many of our readers, I taught Literature for a brief time in the early 70's. And, one of the topics that was popular among many of the students was the brilliance of the Beatles music and lyrics. My initial response was that without the music, the lyrics, were quite pedestrian, in many cases-boring and certainly not literature or even good writing for that matter. So, as a project, I asked the students to bring in the lyrics of the song they liked the best and after careful study, most of them agreed that without the music, the lyrics could not stand alone and ,in many cases. were not very interesting. So, in good fun . . . what are your favorite lyrics that showcase the Beatles literary creativity? Perhaps I've missed something all these years. Good playing . . . Marinero

    LOL ... So you go up to painters and tell then that their painting do not make good sculptures?


    The Beatles did not write poetry .. They wrote songs.


    All in good fun .. Literature teacher? Is that some one that can't write himself, so he tries making a living pointing out flaws in other peoples work?

  51. #50

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    I think there is some value in looking at lyrics apart from the music.

    Of course everyone points to Dylan, and I agree about half of his songs would fit into a nice volume of poetry, the other half are long and meandering (kind of like that joke-song by the Travelling Wilburys, Tweeter and the Monkey Man).

    Though I like the Beatles and respect their lyrics, my personal favorites as poets are Joni Mitchell, Lucinda Williams, Warren Zevon and Lou Reed, each having slightly different styles. Also Mick Jagger is no mean poet as a songsmith--look at Street Fighting Man or You Can't Always Get What You Want for instance. Jimmy Webb also worthwhile--he will be playing here in a couple of weeks, might have to see him.

    The old songsters like Cole Porter and Ira Gershwin--well, no one can deny their cleverness, but as far as deep thoughts, those are not so common. Begin the Beguine is one excellent lyric that comes to mind, maybe The One That Got Away and Lush Life. Not to say we don't like to play 'em and sing 'em.