Eric Clapton vs. Jimmy Page vs. Jeff Beck vs. Jimi Hendrix

**archtopeddy** · 02-19-2019, 12:48 AM

Hendrix was a genius because he redefined how rock guitar would sound. "The duty of an artist is to destroy his art." He replaced it with something that within a few years had nearly every guitarist in rock, soul, funk, and jazz either reflecting his work or at least acknowledging his tremendous contributions.

And let's not forget his skills as a lyricist. Jimi's sci-fi, self-effacing, tripped out, mind-warping, cynical, and comical lyrics (often all at the same time), marked his songs as much as his guitar playing.

For example, and as he said, "If I don't see you in this world, I'll see you in the next -- so don't be late."

**Jonah** · 02-19-2019, 02:46 AM

I am from a bit different musical world and I never had much interest in any of these guys as a kid...

Beck and Page are way too far from me even now...

Hendrix is outstanding... no doubt... but now I think it is too late for me already to really appriciate it.

Clapton - with all that pop crap he did - sometimes he can make this thing really sing .. I do not know how but sometimes he can.

All in... looking backwards it seems in rock music I always appreciated more the music overall than rock gutarist specifically.. it is very strange that as kid - being a rock fan and playing guitar - I never really interested or tried to transcribe any famous rock guitarist. I wonder why...
My main interest in guitar was fist classical and then jazz...

**princeplanet** · 02-19-2019, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by zcostilla

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;934356].... Hendrix was a genius because he could hear something one time and play it back on his guitar near verbatim. ....

Yeah, if it was in a simple pentatonic scale!

Honestly, I could do that when I was 14. Could I do that with Bird, Trane, Wes etc? Not then, not now and not ever, and neither can most. And for those that can, well now, that's the kind of genius that I envy!

**grahambop** · 02-19-2019, 08:59 AM

As a teenager I was equally into Page, Beck and Hendrix but never really dug Clapton for some reason. I think what happened was that I heard the live Hendrix 'Red House', that lit a 'blues' fuse, then someone played Muddy Waters 'Hard Again' to me, which blew me away (great guitar by Johnny Winter), then I searched out all the blues guys e.g. Freddie King, Albert King, B.B., Albert Collins, Buddy Guy etc.

Because I only heard Clapton after I'd heard those guys, he never sounded that special to me. What I liked about those blues players was that they didn't just play great solos, they were great entertainers and singers too.

I still remember my old boss was a total "Clapton is God" fan and once he went to one of Eric's shows where he featured Buddy Guy. I asked my boss what the show was like and he said 'Clapton was fantastic, but there was some boring old black guy with him who was crap, I don't even know who he was'.

I was going to do the whole 'don't you realise that's who Clapton worshipped and got all his influence from' routine, but I didn't bother. You can't argue with fanaticism.

**zcostilla** · 02-20-2019, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Yeah, if it was in a simple pentatonic scale!

Honestly, I could do that when I was 14. Could I do that with Bird, Trane, Wes etc? Not then, not now and not ever, and neither can most. And for those that can, well now, that's the kind of genius that I envy!

Just because he came from an R&B background didn’t mean everything was pentatonic. And if you really could play verbatim a song after hearing it once, then you really ought to be a studio session guitarist and make some money off your talent.

tbh, you come off like a music snob. You don’t have to LIKE someone to recognize their talents or genius.

**Average Joe** · 02-26-2019, 04:58 AM

The thing about Clapton is that there is a strong musical voice there that appeal to a lot of people. Is he the most advanced player ever? No, but he manages to marry bluesiness and melodicism in a way that works. Put that into the context of earworm pop/rock songs and it's no surprise he's both popular and influential. Besides he really was an innovator: Listen to pop and rock soloing before and after Beano and Cream and tell me you can't tell that he left a mark.

Jimmy Page I like for the riffs and the songs. In isolation I find his soloing sloppy, but he seemed to go for that at least partially on purpose. LZ, like AC/DC is wonderful in its big in-your-face attitude and when I'm in the mood to channel my inner 15 year old I still like it.

Beck, I dunno, he can play like few others but his material is often forgettable. As a technical innovator he's very important but outside Blow By Blow and Wired it's not something I listen to.

I don't know why I shouldn't enjoy Page, Clapton or Beck one day one day and Chris Potter, Garzone,Sco, etc. the next. I swear some people in this thread behave as if they are mutually exclusive. Theyre not. They are all voices in the choir of human self expression. It's all good, there's room for all of it.

**zcostilla** · 02-26-2019, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Average Joe

I don't know why I shouldn't enjoy Page, Clapton or Beck one day one day and Chris Potter, Garzone,Sco, etc. the next. I swear some people in this thread behave as if they are mutually exclusive. Theyre not. They are all voices in the choir of human self expression. It's all good, there's room for all of it.

Well said

**mje** · 03-16-2019, 12:22 AM

Hendrix brought R&B flash, tremendous creativity, and a unique vision to blues and rock. It’s hard to convey just how much of an impact he had when he appeared back in the 60s. He kept pushing forward, trying new things.

Clapton started out playing Freddie King, but he does have a real feel for the blues as well as an appreciation of country, and he’s a fine songwriter. He never stood still and always continued to develop as an artist. I still enjoy him.

I liked the early Beck, but his later stuff just doesn’t speak to me.

Page- well, he was a very original plagerist, but I was never a fan of Zepplin.

**princeplanet** · 03-17-2019, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by zcostilla

Just because he came from an R&B background didn’t mean everything was pentatonic. And if you really could play verbatim a song after hearing it once, then you really ought to be a studio session guitarist and make some money off your talent.

tbh, you come off like a music snob. You don’t have to LIKE someone to recognize their talents or genius.

I loved Hendrix, about as much as anyone probably, learned his solos as a kid note for note. But I have a deep problem when people use the word "genius" about rock musicians. Genius to me is Bach, Mozart, Wagner, Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Bird, Trane, Wes etc. I studied composition for years and have studied Jazz for quite some time as well and like anyone who has done the same, you can't help but realise there are levels to be attained in musical mastery that Rock musicians will never dream of. So I stand in defence of the true musical geniuses and feel insulted on their behalf when people use the "musical genius" term very loosely.

Take away his Fuzz Face and cranked Marshall and you won't hear any real innovation in Hendrix's music. Still, doesn't make him any less cool! Not many have been that cool as well as a true musical genius, Miles maybe...

**zcostilla** · 03-17-2019, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

I loved Hendrix, about as much as anyone probably, learned his solos as a kid note for note. But I have a deep problem when people use the word "genius" about rock musicians. Genius to me is Bach, Mozart, Wagner, Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Bird, Trane, Wes etc. I studied composition for years and have studied Jazz for quite some time as well and like anyone who has done the same, you can't help but realise there are levels to be attained in musical mastery that Rock musicians will never dream of. So I stand in defence of the true musical geniuses and feel insulted on their behalf when people use the "musical genius" term very loosely.

Take away his Fuzz Face and cranked Marshall and you won't hear any real innovation in Hendrix's music. Still, doesn't make him any less cool! Not many have been that cool as well as a true musical genius, Miles maybe...

So who was playing music like Purple Haze, Foxy Lady, Third Stone Arron The Sun, Axis Bold As Love, EXP, 1983 A Merman I Would Like To Be, and more before Jimi did it? He went beyond psychedelia into full experimentation. And it wasn’t even just the guitar playing. Some of his lyrics were so colorful (Axis) or thought provoking for a cause (I Don’t Live Today, on behalf of the Native American). And since you yourself mentioned “musical mastery”, who mastered playing his style more then Hendrix? If you don’t care for his style, that’s fine. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t a genius. Jimi Hendrix even dabbled in jazz with songs like Rainy Day, Sleep Away.

It’s funny that you define genius as innovative and being masterful on an instrument and somehow deny that Jimi Hendrix was either.

**archtopeddy** · 03-17-2019, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Not many have been that cool as well as a true musical genius, Miles maybe...

Check this review of musical genius Miles and Jimi influences... (Play the attached YT vid of Sivad in the review while reading)

“Sivad”: When Miles Davis Channeled Jimi Hendrix

**zcostilla** · 03-17-2019, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by archtopeddy

Check this review of musical genius Miles and Jimi influences... (Play the attached YT vid of Sivad in the review while reading)

“Sivad”: When Miles Davis Channeled Jimi Hendrix

So Miles Davis himself considers a Jimi Hendrix a musical genius...love it!

**P.J.** · 03-19-2019, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by Bebop Tom

I’m an Allman man myself.

Eat a peach!

**P.J.** · 03-19-2019, 06:04 AM

Fripp!!

**Litterick** · 03-19-2019, 06:31 AM

Frith!!

**princeplanet** · 03-19-2019, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by zcostilla

So Miles Davis himself considers a Jimi Hendrix a musical genius...love it!

Haha, yes, well true genius he may well have been, but let's face face it, Miles by the late 60's was saying a lot of stupid things. Go read the book (any book really), and see if you disagree!

Look, mastery of a low level skill is not "genius". If you don't agree that Rock is a low level skill, then I'll just bow out and leave you to it.

**archtopeddy** · 03-19-2019, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Look, mastery of a low level skill is not "genius".

Yep. Here's another low-level skill fella posing as a "genius".

**Hep To The Jive** · 03-19-2019, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Haha, yes, well true genius he may well have been, but let's face face it, Miles by the late 60's was saying a lot of stupid things. Go read the book (any book really), and see if you disagree!

Look, mastery of a low level skill is not "genius". If you don't agree that Rock is a low level skill, then I'll just bow out and leave you to it.

So if Rock is low level skill, and jazz is high level skill, then all jazz guitarists are superb Rock players by default?

**jameslovestal** · 03-19-2019, 12:42 PM

I have found it useful when discussing what 'genius' means as it relates to the abilities and skills of someone in a profession to first determine the approximate number of such folks in a profession.

E.g. only a handful or hundreds? I view genius as a step above 'great'; E.g. with western music musicians I say there are only a handful that I would classify as 'genius' but there are hundreds, if not thousands that are 'great'.

Using this as my criteria Hendrix is no genius. Also, a while back I asked anyone that felt Hendrix was one of the best (great, genius, etc...), to name a few songs that represent him as such; I got back the same old stuff I was already aware of, which was mosty the Are You Experienced album. Solid rock and roll album, but I don't see anything really special there.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-19-2019, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

So if Rock is low level skill, and jazz is high level skill, then all jazz guitarists are superb Rock players by default?

You really only get good at what you do. I'm sure there's rocket scientists who can't change the oil on their car.

**Hep To The Jive** · 03-19-2019, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

You really only get good at what you do. I'm sure there's rocket scientists who can't change the oil on their car.

Ehh... it's more like rocket scientists who suck at algebra I guess?

I mean, I don not subscribe to the view Rock is low level skill. I'm just trying to follow the logic of Princeplanet.

**Hep To The Jive** · 03-19-2019, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by jameslovestal

I have found it useful when discussing what 'genius' means as it relates to the abilities and skills of someone in a profession to first determine the approximate number of such folks in a profession.

E.g. only a handful or hundreds? I view genius as a step above 'great'; E.g. with western music musicians I say there are only a handful that I would classify as 'genius' but there are hundreds, if not thousands that are 'great'.

Using this as my criteria Hendrix is no genius. Also, a while back I asked anyone that felt Hendrix was one of the best (great, genius, etc...), to name a few songs that represent him as such; I got back the same old stuff I was already aware of, which was mosty the Are You Experienced album. Solid rock and roll album, but I don't see anything really special there.

Rock'n'roll is just as much a live performance art as a recording. That's where Hendrix really shined.

But ok, what are 'special' albums to you?

**jameslovestal** · 03-19-2019, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

Rock'n'roll is just as much a live performance art as a recording. That's where Hendrix really shined.

But ok, what are 'special' albums to you?

With regards to jazz guitar 'special' albums would be The Swinging Guitar of Tal Farlow, Jimmy Raney - Live in Tokyo, Joe Pass \ Milt Jackson - Quadrant, Grant Green - Matador, Wes - Incredible Jazz Guitar,,,, there are others of course.

As for Rock and Roll; I don't know too much about that genre beyond the British Invasion and I don't find any of the guitar playing to be 'special' in that sub-genre.

This is why I was asking those that are into Hendrix what songs they would recommend I listen to; e.g. a live recording of a song that demonstrates what sets Hendrix apart from other R&R guitar players??????