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  1. #301

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    This is why I was asking those that are into Hendrix what songs they would recommend I listen to; e.g. a live recording of a song that demonstrates what sets Hendrix apart from other R&R guitar players??????
    Let's turn it around .. what R&R players do you think are of the same as Hendrix before 1967, where are you experienced was released?
    Last edited by Lobomov; 03-19-2019 at 03:49 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #302

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Let's turn it around .. what R&R players do you think are of the same as Hendrix before 1967, where are you experienced was released?

    But hey .. Jazz genius these day .. can they even fill a 1000 seater? Who cares tbh?
    Like I already stated, I don't know enough about R&R players or the overall genre to have an informed opinion.

    It appears you're saying that when Are You Experienced was released it contain guitar technique innovations (e.g. use of distortion), that others were not doing at the time.

    As for jazz genius; not sure there are many to begin with and yea, at the end of the day, such classifications are meaningless (just like saying Hendrix was one). To me what is important for a DEAD musician is what they left behind that the living can listen to (this includes written sheet music). This is why I asked for Hendrix fans to turn me on to just one song that they feels represents why they have such respect for Hendrix. I'm very open to being exposed to something I'm unaware of.

  4. #303

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Ehh... it's more like rocket scientists who suck at algebra I guess?

    I mean, I don not subscribe to the view Rock is low level skill. I'm just trying to follow the logic of Princeplanet.
    Einstein wasn't that actually great at maths?

    He had the ideas and the intuition though.

  5. #304

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    This is why I asked for Hendrix fans to turn me on to just one song that they feels represents why they have such respect for Hendrix. I'm very open to being exposed to something I'm unaware of.

    Aaahhh you caugth the end of my post that I deleted quickly oh well .... Anyways Hendrix I always hear with the ears of a child as he belongs to that era of my life. First from the back seat of my dads car and then as a 13 year old aspiring guitar player. Most of it is just colors, emotions and a feeling of floating.

    A defining song for me would something like this. Not because any technical reason, but the rest .. This is not Wes as you say


  6. #305

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    I don’t know if it’s Hendrix’s ‘best song’, but a track I always associate with him (and still really like) is Voodoo Child.


  7. #306

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    Like I already stated, I don't know enough about R&R players or the overall genre to have an informed opinion.

    It appears you're saying that when Are You Experienced was released it contain guitar technique innovations (e.g. use of distortion), that others were not doing at the time.

    As for jazz genius; not sure there are many to begin with and yea, at the end of the day, such classifications are meaningless (just like saying Hendrix was one). To me what is important for a DEAD musician is what they left behind that the living can listen to (this includes written sheet music). This is why I asked for Hendrix fans to turn me on to just one song that they feels represents why they have such respect for Hendrix. I'm very open to being exposed to something I'm unaware of.
    Listen to Axis: Bold as Love and Electric Ladyland. If I had to pick one song, I'd say Little Wing (On Axis), but to get a sense of what he was as a player, composer, sound-designer, and record-maker, it's worth spending time absorbing both those albums (except for the Noel Redding songs, which are kind of embarrassing). Are You Experienced was sort of a shot across the bow to the popular music world. There was nothing remotely like it in terms of production or guitar performance before it, but Axis and Electric Ladyland are more completely realized works. For live work, the Woodstock tracks and Band of Gypsies. Voodoo Chile, Voodoo Child (Slight Return), and Rainy Day Dream Way/Still Raining Still Dreaming on Electric Ladyland are live in the studio. There's a live version of Little Wing out there that's really good. There are live bootlegs out there, but the Hendrix estate is very aggressive about taking down stuff from the web, so these things are hard to find. The "canon" is the AYE, ABaL, EL, and BoG.

    50 years down the road, it's very hard to grasp how revolutionary he was because his techniques and sounds have become part of the the baseline sound of so much music, and because he's so widely imitated. I'm a little too young to grasp it directly (and I'm pretty old), but I know people who saw him in clubs before he was famous who describe the experience as basically shattering their sense of reality. There are interviews with people like Mike Bloomfield, Pete Townshend, Clapton, McLaughlin, etc., where they say they heard him in some club before AYE even came out, and it was so far beyond what they could do or understand that it almost made them want to quit playing music. You might not see this based on your limited familiarity with his music and his place in music history, but it's there.

    John

  8. #307

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    The best: Obama
    The worst: A tie between Heineken and Trump
    Can I quote Ronald W Reagan (PUS 40) during his visit to Berlin, Germany; June 12th 1987 : "Tear down this wall !" ?

  9. #308

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    My belief is that Jerry Reed (far from jazz with far too many open strings but not here) was a very interesting guitar player ...
    This is a transcription (this U-tuber has made enormous efforts to post transcriptions, mainly jazz)

  10. #309

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Einstein...

    He had the ideas and the intuition though.
    This is the point I was trying to make with the photo of Einstein playing the violin. It's also the point about Hendrix...

    To equate musical virtuosity with musical genius just misses the point. It's kinda like people who think the faster a musician plays, the better he (or she) is.

    I heard a rocket guy once say, "All speed, no vector." Same thing seems to apply to a lot of music. Speed and virtuosity seem to be easy marks to hang terms like genius or whatever; they're much easier to point to than as christianm77 noted -- ideas and the intuition.

    Consider what Einstein's friend Dr. János Flesch said about his playing, "“There are many musicians with much better technique. But none, I believe, who ever played with more sincerity or deeper feeling.”

    Ideas, Intuition, Sincerity, Feeling -- This may be Einstein, or it may be Hendrix. It may be Monk, or Bird. And while it may have nothing to with specifically defining genius, I suspect they're traits that set certain people apart from much of their peers.

  11. #310

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Einstein wasn't that actually great at maths?

    He had the ideas and the intuition though.
    You know, he was relatively good at it

  12. #311

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    With regards to jazz guitar 'special' albums would be The Swinging Guitar of Tal Farlow, Jimmy Raney - Live in Tokyo, Joe Pass \ Milt Jackson - Quadrant, Grant Green - Matador, Wes - Incredible Jazz Guitar,,,, there are others of course.

    As for Rock and Roll; I don't know too much about that genre beyond the British Invasion and I don't find any of the guitar playing to be 'special' in that sub-genre.

    This is why I was asking those that are into Hendrix what songs they would recommend I listen to; e.g. a live recording of a song that demonstrates what sets Hendrix apart from other R&R guitar players??????
    Well, looks like you're just not into rock'n'roll, period. People have different tastes, it's ok. Trying to explain the genius of Hendrix would be exercise in futility, because he operated in that medium.

    How much a genius supposed to be universally loved, that would be a good question. Like Mozart maybe one when it comes to music. I know you can call Charlie Parker a genius, but he's far from universally loved. And so are many jazz greats. If you don't like jazz, you don't like jazz, it doesn't matter. Even though, it's very hard to find anyone who is not charmed by Louis Armstrong. And he's been called genius as much as Parker.

    So if you can look down on rock'n'roll, keep telling yourself jazz is a higher art form, but there maybe a Classical guy next to you who has the same attitude toward jazz- I've experienced it way too many times.

  13. #312

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    Hendrix’ 3 estate-approved posthumous albums have quite a lot of interesting stuff either live or live in the studio. (Hear That Train A-Comin’, for instance, plus long jam with Lonnie Youngblood, Georgia Blues). Most bootlegs were recorded under poor conditions and are not representative of his effect in person. The videos out there give a hint of his power as a live performer.

    Also I have a fondness for Little Miss Strange. Even though it’s a slight song and not Jimi’s vocals, the guitar parts are incredible—I think he throws every guitar effect and riff known to guitardom at the time into that song. If you want to learn about what the guitar was capable of in 1969, listen to that song.

  14. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Well, looks like you're just not into rock'n'roll, period. People have different tastes, it's ok. Trying to explain the genius of Hendrix would be exercise in futility, because he operated in that medium.

    How much a genius supposed to be universally loved, that would be a good question. Like Mozart maybe one when it comes to music. I know you can call Charlie Parker a genius, but he's far from universally loved. And so are many jazz greats. If you don't like jazz, you don't like jazz, it doesn't matter. Even though, it's very hard to find anyone who is not charmed by Louis Armstrong. And he's been called genius as much as Parker.

    So if you can look down on rock'n'roll, keep telling yourself jazz is a higher art form, but there maybe a Classical guy next to you who has the same attitude toward jazz- I've experienced it way too many times.
    Very well said. Just because one is not into something doesn't automatically mean it has no value. Mozart was buried in a pauper's grave. If genius is not recognized by many, can it still be genius? In my view, yes. But what defines genius in art generally and music in particular is to some degree subjective.

    As the OP of this thread, I only meant to start a relative discussion of four influential and popular guitarists. Whether they are geniuses or "the best" is debatable and irrelevant. But they should not be dismissed simply because they may not have put in as many thousands of hours and labored in equal obscurity as those with a supposedly higher calling, namely jazz and classical musicians.

  15. #314

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    You know, he was relatively good at it
    hahahahahaha! Best response yet!

  16. #315

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Well, looks like you're just not into rock'n'roll, period. People have different tastes, it's ok. Trying to explain the genius of Hendrix would be exercise in futility, because he operated in that medium.

    How much a genius supposed to be universally loved, that would be a good question. Like Mozart maybe one when it comes to music. I know you can call Charlie Parker a genius, but he's far from universally loved. And so are many jazz greats. If you don't like jazz, you don't like jazz, it doesn't matter. Even though, it's very hard to find anyone who is not charmed by Louis Armstrong. And he's been called genius as much as Parker.

    So if you can look down on rock'n'roll, keep telling yourself jazz is a higher art form, but there maybe a Classical guy next to you who has the same attitude toward jazz- I've experienced it way too many times.
    I don't look down on R&R; like I said I just don't know much about the genre beyond the British invasion music I listed to as a teen. You see when I went to college I roomed with a jazz guitar player, heard Benson's Body Talk, and it was jazz and only jazz for the next 15 years. So it isn't lack of respect but lack of knowledge.

    John A. provided what I was looking for. Now I just need to make the effort to check out his recommendations.

  17. #316

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    I can't think of a well lauded guitarist, even musician, who saw Jimi play and didn't, at some point (if not immediately) claim he knocked their socks off. Whether it was Jeff Beck or EC or Larry Coryell or John McLaughlin or Miles .... everyone who watched him play came away from the experience (pun intended) with a huge appreciation for JH' musicianship.

    For the thread as a whole, there is no "Vs" in music.
    Last edited by CarlD; 03-20-2019 at 07:05 PM.