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Robben Ford talks about strumming, "the key to rhythm guitar" at about the 9 minute mark:
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05-25-2018 09:43 AM
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"I didn't know how to play rhythm behind somebody... because I'd been into JAZZ!"
Yo
His hand, of course, is going up and down but only connecting mostly on the downbeats. It's got to go up and down to keep the right flow going.
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basinstreet,
I came across this thread today, thanks so much for starting it. I am just plain awful at strumming and can use all of the help I can get. I am at work now but will try to digest this great replies tonight.
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Most of my real day-job music gig is NOT jazz style. But that being said, playing jazz has helped a great deal with everything else, and changed the way I view, hear, and play music in other styles, mostly re subdivision of the beat.
The process has taught me that "feels" are mostly just subdivisions at lower common denominator subdivisions. If you want to get better at 8th note feels outside of jazz, work on playing 16th note patterns. Start with all-16ths, straight...then poly rhythms etc. The unintended consequence of playing something on EVERY subdivision for a while is that you get feels for real patterns almost "for free". You almost don't even have to practice them separately.
What gives great players great "feel" is mostly the releases at the end of notes. These mostly occur on subdivisions "a level down" from conscious: so 16ths if you're talking 8ths. So,..... they're really too fast to practice consciously. The only way to learn to feel/play RESTS at that level is to practice playing actually PITCHES/chords at those subdivisions. Easier to practice something than nothing. Again, practice the notes and you get the releases for free. If you've never dug into this kind of work, you probably can't even hear what it is that you're NOT HEARING. This is the best stuff in music.
By the way, I honestly believe that you get most of the straight 8th/16th stuff "for free", if you simply do all of this work at the level of 8th and 16th note triplets in 4/4...kind of 12/8 ballad in everything for a period of time.
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Originally Posted by basinstreet
That's what the strumming pattern is in this song:
the X's are left hand muting. I don't know what the rhythm called, some kind of rumba maybe? Try it!
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Originally Posted by mrcee
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
I always play a downstroke on beat one, obviously, the two sixteenth are down strokes "dragged" through the chord, as is the first in the next pair of eighths.
The last three beats are up strokes with rests in between, no muted strums...
But I have no idea why I learned it that way...chain gang? He will break your heart? I dunno.
Whatever it is, it's about as much fun as one can have playing a Barre chord.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
more percussiveness in the tone the better. I love rhythm guitar, actually more than comping, which could be excuse for a lazy right hand, but of course guys like Jim Hall, who was excellent strummer, got it all.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
- Sure, I'd be glad to, if I can find any. I would suggest listening to Soca tunes through good headphones. On the one I posted up thread, Spring Garden, I'm hearing guitar hard panned both right and left. When I first attempted Soca was with a West Indian band. We did a lot of reggae and soul covers and some light jazz. I had that all nailed but I couldn't get the Soca. The other guitar player said just play triads on the downbeats and he'd handle the ''chippy chop'' stuff. I practiced it hard and finally came up with a fair version of the real thing. I remember after the practice session when I first ''got it'' that I took my right hand and in my left and moved it in such a way that I heard and felt about 20 soft audible cracks from the outside (pinky side) of my right wrist like something really opened up for the first time. It sounded like shuffling a deck of cards.
I don't think that barre chords in general are the best way to go. Since IMO the rhythm guitar in Soca has sort of replaced the steel drums common in Calypso the top four strings give it that chimey bell like sound. Actually a good way to think of Soca guitar is to think of it like ringing a bell on the downbeats. For sure the barred E chord (eg. ''A'' at the fifth fret) isn't generally a good choice for a voicing. A barred open ''A'' chord (eg. D at the fifth fret) is OK though. What's called among Country players a ''chicken claw'' voicing is good. We all know it. It's an open C position played up the neck without a full barre. eg. a D major would be x-5-4-2-3-x. To my ear Soca guitar chords are virtually all major triads. I don't hear 7ths major or Dom.
I'm a Soca fanatic and feel that as far as rhythmic feel goes it's the ultimate. There's nothing like a West Indian set where they're burnin' the Soca. In my sometimes less than humble opinion attempts by non Caribbean musicians to get the Soca/Calypso feel don't work. Even Sonny Rollins' (who I love) St. Thomas and Brownskin Girl are not successful as Caribbean music (and in Sonny's defense he probably wasn't trying for that). I know Sonny's parents were from the West Indies but those 2 tunes don't move me except as decent Jazz tunes. I've listened to that stuff (plus things in that vein by Parker and Diz) with really hip West Indian musicians who can play everything from Soca to Giant Steps and they, as much as they love the musicians, give it the thumbs down. It's a cultural thing and like Hank Williams said that unless you've surveyed a lot of plowed ground over the backside of a mule you won't really get country music. Well, unless you've chopped a little sugar cane with a machete in a field with swarms of mosquitos and poisonous snakes and then rode into town standing on the back of a tractor to go out to a dance that night where people are breaking bottles while you're coming down with malaria you might not totally get the Soca vibe.
The book by French anthropologist Claude Levi Strauss, Triste Tropique, might address some of these issues.
I suppose it would be translated Sadness of the Tropics or Tropical Sadness. It's no surprise that the song Hotel California is often covered by West Indians. ''This could be heaven or this could be hell.''
Anyway let me look for some good examples of Soca tunes with prominent rhythm guitar to post.
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This record may have been the all time biggest seller in Soca history. I hear guitar mostly on the left channel.
Also some rhythmic single note stuff which is cool.
This is a good example of the fast chippy chop strum. You have to know how to listen for it. It's not in your face like power chords.
The intro on this is clear rhythm guitar.
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Originally Posted by mrcee
Yea, you gotta have some serious stamina in your hands to play 7 min songs like that and probably more live, the groove is killing ha!
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Oh yeah, those bass players are monsters. But I think the guitar players could be the hardest working guys from a chops standpoint. As much as I love Jazz etc as far as pure groove goes I'm Soca all the way.
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Originally Posted by rdwhitti
glad you are getting something from it too
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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I got a good tenor uke a few years ago and got obsessed with it for a while. I think it will help anyone's strumming and recommend it highly. My strumming was already good but it helped me a lot getting into the top 4 strings. It's tuned the same as a guitar just a 4th higher. It's interesting how playing different stringed instruments can help with the guitar. I played pedal steel for a while and I think it helped my guitar tone.
btw watching the Robben Ford video above I noticed that he tended to strum all 6 strings. Nile Rogers is of the opinion that in order to be funky (not that funk is everything but after straight jazz comping it might be the most important rhythmic approach in general) one shouldn't ever play all 6 strings at once. He demonstrated a 4 bar groove using 3 chords and in each bar he was hitting different string groups.Last edited by mrcee; 05-25-2018 at 06:53 PM.
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I play a lot of uke...unless you're going to use a pick (or strum guitar fingers only) I'd say the crossover is minimal.
And for God's sake, NEVER USE A PICK ON UKULELE
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
They won't know what I'm talking about but I'll feel great about it
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Both of the daily ukulele books are great. The leap year edition, the blue one, is probably better overall , but I would definitely have both. Great tunes , all of the chords laid out in order at the top.
Ukulele is great side-instrument fun for would-be jazzers. Especially with these jumpin' jim books, ukulele books don't pull any punches , in terms of making things easy. Lots of different voicings per tune. Less of a tendency to simplify . More like chord melody almost, but they can get away with that, because it's just so much easier to play.
Playing ukulele gets you away from the guitarist over-focus on bass and building and orienting everything from bass notes. Really gets you more in tune with hearing top voices moving, hearing more melodically etc.
And of course it's great for rhythm as well. Great for getting away from playing everything on the beat where bass and drums already live anyway. You learn to do more with SPACE and learn more minimal approaches to rhythm. You learn a lot more about IMPLYING the beat, as opposed to simply PLAYING the beat the way we guitarists often do.
If you have kids or somewhat reluctant friends or spouses, ukulele is a perfect entry point into playing some music , because it's so accessible. You can literally have a friend who's over for a visit pick one up and start playing with you in a few minutes.
Great music outreach device honestly. You need more than one for sure. Get a decent concert size for yourself and then a couple of cheap soprano bangers for kids and other folks to pick up and play along.
Skip the plectrums. Seriously.
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The uke is a good instrument for song writing as well. George Harrison was a uke fanatic and wrote a lot if not most of his songs on it.
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I picked up a cheap soprano uke at GC while they were on sale. I don't know if it will help me with my guitar strumming or not but I think it is going to be loads of fun! I can keep it by my computer and play along with songs on YouTube whenever I feel like it. Cool!
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Can't strum ... and can't use a pick either. Somewhere about 1980 I ran out of picks and decided to use my fingers until I could get to the music store to buy more. Still haven't gone. If Joe Pass and Jim Soloway don't need them, neither do I.
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Originally Posted by Uncle Vinnie
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