The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    If so.. Why? If not.. Why not?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I am a Dead fan, but not Dead obsessed. My own two cents - no. Improvisation (or acid tripping) alone does not equal jazz. I wouldn't even consider the Allman's instrumentals jazz, but they are closer to a tight form of jazz than the Dead's IMHO.

  4. #3

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    I heard it mentioned recently that some of the early 60's rock was Jazz-like compared to modern rock. Mainly because the early bands when they played live were playing off each other and would have extended solo. That today's rock bands use backup tracks and some are just doubling their parts live that the spontaneity is gone.

    So from the standpoint of live and working off each other and improvised solos you could say there was a Jazz element to Hendrix, Cream, Allman Brothers and others, compare to today's band leached to digital playback tracks.

  5. #4

  6. #5
    I guess if you're a hippy stoned on LSD and think that "jazz" is the sound of a band tuning up and then jamming on the I (one) chord for 40 mins...

  7. #6

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    I think a bit of jazz is one of about 20 ingredients that goes into the soup that is "Grateful Dead Music."

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuitarPlayer
    I guess if you're a hippy stoned on LSD and think that "jazz" is the sound of a band tuning up and then jamming on the I (one) chord for 40 mins...

    Should tell Branford Marsallis. Ornette Coleman, Charles Lloyd, Greg Osby, David Murray who have played with them.

    Can the Grateful Dead be considered Jazz?-hippiedog-2-jpg

  9. #8

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    I wouldnt call them jazz which is probably mostly because of the rhythmic things going on I guess. More "vibe" than anything else I could put my finger on. They have a similar sensibility though ... Like there's a definite tradition they established that a lot of their acolytes are expected to be fluent with. European and american folk music that formed a basis for what they did in the same way that New Orleans music and Tin Pan Alley sort of became a jazz song form tradition.

  10. #9

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    I don't think you can classify the Dead as anything but a rock band. However, when their 1st album came out (67?), I was enthralled. What struck me was the improvisation. I didn't have a name for it at the time, and certainly there were plenty of great Jazz improvisors around, but, as a teenager growing up in the suburbs of Phila, I had never heard anything quite like it. Now I'm retired, and spend a whole lot of my time improvising over Jazz standards. So, in some respect the Dead opened my eyes/ears to a new aspect of music. Seeing Jimi Hendrix play back in the 60's was pretty darn cool too...

  11. #10

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    Sure they're jazz. Jazz is a word for anything that's trendy and needs word cache. I got a pair of New Balance running shoes, they're called jazz. Ted Nugent plays a jazz guitar. A girl I know goes to jazz dancercise. I went to the supermarket today and got jazz eggs to have with my jazz milk.
    I'll share a little known marketing strategy you may not know about, please keep this among our little group here. Shhh, you can make anything into jazz simply by putting the letters "j" "a" "z" "z" in front of the word. Try it.
    "What kind of music do you like?", "Well, you know... jazz music"
    "Is that a "jazz" idea?" "Sure it's a "jazz" thing."
    "Hey that little fan on your desk really keeps you cool!" "Of course it does, it's a jazz fan, it's cool by definition."

    Jazz is a meaningless word used to promote things that don't have a neat word yet. Grateful Dead? 100% jazz!

    David

  12. #11

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    No less jazz than a lot of the music that gets categorised as jazz now.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    Sure they're jazz. Jazz is a word for anything that's trendy and needs word cache. I got a pair of New Balance running shoes, they're called jazz. Ted Nugent plays a jazz guitar. A girl I know goes to jazz dancercise. I went to the supermarket today and got jazz eggs to have with my jazz milk.
    I'll share a little known marketing strategy you may not know about, please keep this among our little group here. Shhh, you can make anything into jazz simply by putting the letters "j" "a" "z" "z" in front of the word. Try it.
    "What kind of music do you like?", "Well, you know... jazz music"
    "Is that a "jazz" idea?" "Sure it's a "jazz" thing."
    "Hey that little fan on your desk really keeps you cool!" "Of course it does, it's a jazz fan, it's cool by definition."

    Jazz is a meaningless word used to promote things that don't have a neat word yet. Grateful Dead? 100% jazz!

    David
    Jazz eggs and jazz milk are great, but look up the jazz noodles, those are the ones with Greatful Dead image on the package.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Jazz eggs and jazz milk are great, but look up the jazz noodles, those are the ones with Greatful Dead image on the package.
    I know! I mistakenly got the Hot Jazz noodles once, you know, with Django on the package...Yikes! The saracha pepper almost put me in cardiac arrest. I'll stick with regular "cooler" Dead jazz noodles. After all now- if the Dead is jazz then Jazz is Dead.
    Anybody use Jazz Ninja two ply toilet paper? That's some Killin' Sh!t, man. So killin' it's almost Dead.

    David

  15. #14

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    GD drummer Bill Kruetzman shared in his book that after Ornette played with them, the jazz great looked at the band and said in frustration, "you guys don't listen to each other..."

    They jammed a few more times on stage together over the years and Billy confesses that during those Ornette shows, the band worked very hard to earn Ornette's approval.

    I've heard the "GD are really playing jazz" before. I don't buy it from a technical perspective but I do think the vibe, creativity, and spirit is shared.

    -C

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by h1pst3r88
    GD drummer Bill Kruetzman shared in his book that after Ornette played with them, the jazz great looked at the band and said in frustration, "you guys don't listen to each other..."

    They jammed a few more times on stage together over the years and Billy confesses that during those Ornette shows, the band worked very hard to earn Ornette's approval.

    I've heard the "GD are really playing jazz" before. I don't buy it from a technical perspective but I do think the vibe, creativity, and spirit is shared.

    -C
    I'm there with you on that one h1pst3r88, just because a name is on the session, or bandstand doesn't make it jazz. Ornette, Charlie Haden and Ed Blackwell played and recorded with Yoko Ono. It was her project and it was an art project. Plenty of improvisation and creativity. Well nobody's going to question the pedigree of her sidemen, nor their contribution to an interesting work with integrity, but you're not going to find Yoko Ono in the record bin with Billie Holiday. Nor would any of those musicians think to.
    Sometimes you work with good jazz musicians. They play different things too. That don't make it jazz. Herb Ellis played on the Tonight Show. I never thought of that as a jazz program. Archie Shepp played with Zappa, and Frank even titled a recording of his Jazz From Hell, but I don't keep Zappa's Fillmore with my jazz records.
    It's the music you play and not the name on the package that makes it the music I call jazz.
    David

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    I know! I mistakenly got the Hot Jazz noodles once, you know, with Django on the package...Yikes! The saracha pepper almost put me in cardiac arrest. I'll stick with regular "cooler" Dead jazz noodles. After all now- if the Dead is jazz then Jazz is Dead.
    Anybody use Jazz Ninja two ply toilet paper? That's some Killin' Sh!t, man. So killin' it's almost Dead.

    David
    Haha yes you're right buddy, Hot Jazz noodles are pretty spicy. On the other hand, you're safe with Greatful Dead ones, it just tastes dull to me.

  18. #17

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    I seem to remember reading somewhere that Bobby Weir studied the way McCoy Tyner comped behind Trane as a model for how to comp behind Jerry.

    In any case, the Dead's music is an amalgam of pretty much every American style of music there is. Country, folk, blues, rock, gospel, and jazz (Plus a hint of reggae - though not an American style). I wouldn't call them a jazz group any more than I'd call them a country group. I'd call them a rock group with some jazz elements.

    (I always wanted them to do a "great american songbook" tune. "I left my heart in San Francisco" seems made for them.)

  19. #18

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    Being that I grew up in Texas, I never really heard the Dead until I was in my 30s and playing bass in a hippy jam band. It was a good time. I had just moved to Pa and didn't know lot of folks, and since we played at all these campout festivals, I had a pretty good time

    The Greatful Dead tunes do have a form that you keep repeating while people are soloing, and the solos do have to take up at least one time through the form, so that's similar

    but that is about where the musical similarity ends

    the chords you are going to encounter are more like the chords in country music than the harmonies you encounter in jazz.

    so no, not really even close. The harmonic vocabulary and the feel are different.

    people improvise in bluegrass, too, but nobody would mistake grass for jazz

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Miller
    Being that I grew up in Texas, I never really heard the Dead until I was in my 30s and playing bass in a hippy jam band. It was a good time. I had just moved to Pa and didn't know lot of folks, and since we played at all these campout festivals, I had a pretty good time

    The Greatful Dead tunes do have a form that you keep repeating while people are soloing, and the solos do have to take up at least one time through the form, so that's similar

    but that is about where the musical similarity ends

    the chords you are going to encounter are more like the chords in country music than the harmonies you encounter in jazz.

    so no, not really even close. The harmonic vocabulary and the feel are different.

    people improvise in bluegrass, too, but nobody would mistake grass for jazz
    Actually bluegrass is heavily influenced by jazz AFAIK you don't tend to find the improvised solo thing in original mountain music. Happy to be corrected, but that's how I understand it...

    Louis casts a long shadow.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Actually bluegrass is heavily influenced by jazz AFAIK you don't tend to find the improvised solo thing in original mountain music. Happy to be corrected, but that's how I understand it...

    Louis casts a long shadow.
    no, you're right that grass picked up the players taking solo breaks from jazz. Old time style you just play the tune over and over. Very much like Irish music, which is no surprise.

    but bluegrass is so different from jazz, though. You wouldn't mistake Earl Scruggs for a bebop banjo player. that's what I meant.

    But I see what you mean, though. probably a bad example

  22. #21

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    I can't recall Jerry discussing the modes of the melodic or harmonic scale in anal detail, so how could he possibly play jazz

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by boatheelmusic
    I can't recall Jerry discussing the modes of the melodic or harmonic scale in anal detail, so how could he possibly play jazz
    I can't recall Jerry ever discussing his anal details. Is this some secret criteria for being a jazz player? Gee, that explains a lot. The last club I showed up at, I walked in, amp and guitar in hand. Guy at the front desk looks at me, says "You must be the jazz guy. Your entrance is in the rear." I told him "What do I look like, your proctologist?"
    Budda boom
    Can't get no respect.

    David

  24. #23

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    I think they had a jazz approach insofar as listening to each other goes and rolling with the moment, plenty of risk-taking, but jazz? No. No swing or deep harmony, harmonically rooted in folk and pop, but I respect the fact that they were willing to go onstage and fall flat on their faces.

    That's part of jazz, but not all of it.

    They are, however, jazzier than Kenny G.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

    They are, however, jazzier than Kenny G.
    Kenny G can be pretty hip and jazzy. Listen to this video about playing Kenny G. on the guitar.



    Hey even the solo sounds kinda jazzy



    A lot of useful guitar stuff on a Kenny G. tune!

    David

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    I can't recall Jerry ever discussing his anal details.
    Hey with his diet and drug regimen, can you blame him?