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The following performance, IMO, is great on various levels -- including overall band tightness, Vinnie Colaiuta, comedic elements provided by both Belushi and Zappa:
Frank Zappa - John Belushi - Video dailymotion
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12-27-2018 05:45 PM
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Vai says in interviews that that man was a musical genius, and I think he was a self taught guy, which is pretty incredible by listening to the instrumental stuff he wrote and performed. I think it is hard to tell when he is jacking around and when he is serious with the lyrics.....
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Hmmm...have you got a few hours?
He was definitely a musical genius. I think he will be remembered in future generations for his compositional skills. (No I don't think he's on a level with Arvo Part, but IDK John Adams or Philip Glass vs Zappa? I'd pick Zappa.) I personally like his more band-oriented work (Uncle Meat, The Grand Wazoo) than his pure orchestral stuff, but it's all top notch.
As a bandleader he is unparalleled in rock, if not jazz, though even there he would be a strong contender. The Brecker Brothers, Ruth Underwood, George Duke, Jean-Luc Ponty, Vinnie Colaiuta, etc. Not to mention non-jazz guitarists Steve Vai and Adrian Belew.
I appreciate the depth of his songwriting. My favorites are the mid-late 70's fusion albums like Apsotrophe, Overnight Sensation, Live at the Roxy, etc. Brilliant, brilliant lyrical and musical composition.
Now the humor and philosophy--this is what sticks in people's craws and makes it difficult to appreciate Zappa the artist. First of all he was a libertarian. Unlike Ayn Rand, he had a sense of humor. He was a political satirist who loved poking fun at those in power. He was a scatologist along the lines of Hieronymous Bosch and Rabelais.
I found his later political stuff to be not very funny and dated by now. On the other hand, Joe's Garage has touches of brilliance, IMHO.
The only way to appreciate him is the way you would appreciate a big, overstuffed but awesome hamburger. Just take a huge bite out of the middle, savor all the different flavors, and work your way from one end to the other.
My advice would be to listen to Overnight Sensation about a gazillion times, work backwards to the beginning then go forward from there. In a couple of weeks you'll have a better appreciation of Frank Zappa.
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Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar. That made me want to play my ass off even more ... and I'd already spent years trying to learn Satriani when I discovered those albums. Complex and melodic, and intensely moody.
I don't like everything Frank did, but goddamnit, when he was on, he was on.
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Grand Wazoo (entire album) but give this track in particular a listen:
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zappa's oeuvre is so large & varied, it's difficult to just write him off completely...he was not a jazzer...tho he had some jazz players on his recordings and was part of that 60's free jazz scene.... but he was really old school doo-wop (east l.a.teen groups) and raw guitar blues (guitar slim) mixed with contemporary classical (edgard varese)..that's quite a large area!!!
and he was a very dedicated and hard worker...lived music
something in there for everyone...dig harder
cheers
ps- a short little piece
Last edited by neatomic; 12-27-2018 at 11:29 PM. Reason: ps-
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Lots of Frank fans here! Some of its just goofy, some is wonderful, but there's a lot of fun -- so enjoy!
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His second hand impact is huge if you consider how much influence he had on Steve Vai and the subsequent impact Vai has had on every new guitar player since.
I got into Frank as a teenager because it was funny and sexual and deviant and downright lewd. I stayed as an adult and dug deeper just for the sheer artistry and mastery of the craft that he displayed in all areas from musicianship to production. I also think he wrote some brilliant music and played a mean guitar.
Who besides Frank could go on the cover of Guitar Player magazine wearing a Strat torched by Jimi Hendrix and not come off looking like a real twat?
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More jazz-influenced stuff:
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The appeal of Vai is a mystery to me, which in turn has caused me to doubt Zappa's judgement. I think Zappa was too enamoured of virtuosity, to the detriment of musicality. I believe there are many guitar players who have rejected the way of Vai, or who have never heard him, for which we can be grateful.
Originally Posted by FwLineberry
Zappa's other failing was to believe he could be a modern composer like Varese. Unfortunately, Pierre Boulez shared this belief.
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I respect the gumption it takes to hold and pursue that belief more than I respect the play-it-safe, stay-in-your-box approach. Originally Posted by Litterick
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I have listened to FZ alot over the years some of his Music is better than others he did, My favorite LP is weasels rip my flesh he had alot of well known players on that LP If you want to here a straight type of song try Directly from my hart to you, for a rock type song My guitar wants to kill your Mama, or a typical FZ style OH No. Weasels Rip My Flesh
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My first album of Zappa was Sheik Yerbuti, and it's still my favourite. The lyrics aspect, now that I understand English much better, is also important when listening to Zappa. Tunes like Bobby Brown Goes Down, man, I can't stop laughing any time I hear it, it's just brilliant!
OTOH, his more jamming tunes from the earlier albums maybe don't affect me as much. Even though love his guitar tone and some solos are genius!
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Two words: Lumpy Gravy.
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To each his own. I liked his earlier instrumental work better than when he started singing, but I still think he has moments of brilliance mixed with moments of utter pretentiousness. Originally Posted by Litterick
What judgment? Hiring a sideman who could play practically anything he could throw at him? If you're interested in writing complex music, it seems like good judgment to hire such a person. Look at Chick Corea hiring Bill Evans and then Al Di Meola. He wanted a guitar player who could rival John McLaughlin.which in turn has caused me to doubt Zappa's judgement.
If you don't like the music, that's ok.
I think Zappa was too enamoured of virtuosity, to the detriment of musicality.
Fair enough. I think Zappa was a complex figure with an equally complex ego. But I happen to like the most of the music he came up with.
I believe there are many guitar players who have rejected the way of Vai, or who have never heard him, for which we can be grateful.
There have always been musicians who eschew technical/musical prowess in favor of other approaches. That's a good thing. Vai already does what Vai does. We don't need a hundred guitar players trying to sound like Vai. Of course, you're saying we don't even need Vai trying to sound like Vai.
Zappa's other failing was to believe he could be a modern composer like Varese.
I think Zappa's failing in this regard is thinking he could force himself onto the establishment without having the appropriate pedigree. He made a similar mistake trying to get into politics.
Unfortunately, Pierre Boulez shared this belief.
Boulez mangled Zappa's material beyond recognition. So I actually agree with you on that. Thankfully, the Ensemble Modern took his work seriously and played the music very well.
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that will fly right past most folk, Lumpy Gravy is the some of most insanely melodic music written, Originally Posted by citizenk74
Two words: Lumpy Gravy.
people think fast 8ths & 16 ths are just it, if Bird or Bud had been around they would have loved it,
in fact the Jazz players on LG all loved it ( not at first sight) difficult too read, only one pianist did not like it, soon too be replaced by a HOT pianist who said this is it.
Even the straightest of passages swings as Debussy does funny how it not Jazz................
ps those extended chords, mind you G Wazoo, swung like goblin too..........................
Peace
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keepin' it going here...
(Not sure what the point was in bringing Vai up (Part 2) since as far as I can tell he was playing the same exact part as Dweezil. Maybe just for the facial expressions.)
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vai was zappas human guitar synclavier...that's all...vai had automaton electric guitar chops..zappa liked that!..he wanted his music precise..why he went back and removed and overdubbed tracks on many of his "original recordings"..much to the chagrin of music /vinyl historians! hah..the zappa discography is a complicated affair
zappa liked the youthful electric energy of the younger guys, vs the semi jaded satisfaction of the typical studio session players of the time (great as they were)....plus they were cheaper $$$!!! (zappa was always having budget problems) ...but those "kids" wanted to burn..kennedy, vai, bozzio, etc...zappa used them like a classical composer used great precise soloists in their day...many classical composers have written specific pieces for specific musicians...tradition
having said all that..he basically lost me before that... by the mid 70's...dental floss tycoon -montana-had cool extended guitar solo (his) blowin pretty free in that jagged bluesy style he always liked..his idols were that!..but you can also understand why he turned to vai type precision!!
solo starts abt 1:50 if you wanna cut to the chase
cheers
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Frank refused to be censored, but what many of us know is that very much of his musical product was just a way to finance his serious music. A money making scheme to allow him to make uncompromisingly personal art. The Mothers were employed and paid to rehearse, even when they weren't gigging/touring. That takes some loot.
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Zappa's other failing was to believe he could be a modern composer like Varese. Unfortunately, Pierre Boulez shared this belief.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I don’t understand your point, but I don’t to see how FZ and Boulez failed to be ‘modern composers like Varese’.
How so?
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Oh yeah! Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
It’s rare to find the same skill set in one person. Zappa certainly did a better job of balancing these aspects of his life than Mozart, probably the first composer to go freelance...
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Lumpy Gravy PT1 or Pt2 and Brown shoes dont make it
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Originally Posted by rictroll
I believe he was trying to say that Zappa thought himself capable of composing music of the style and quality of Varese, but that Zappa was no good at it. He then condemns Boulez for thinking Zappa was qualified to attempt composing that music.
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This was my intro to Zappa (& George Duke Jean Luc Ponty too)...still sounds good to me.
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I believe it is common courtesy to allow people to address the questions asked of them, rather than presuming to know the answers. Originally Posted by FwLineberry
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mclaughlin sound here
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