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Not at the same time but what do you think? Good for musicianship or do you think it's better to master one?
I first started on bass then moved onto guitar. Bass and guitar are easy to switch between however. I don't practice bass, only guitar, but I still improve in bass because of it. No doubt not as fast, I can walk but my walking skills haven't developed much lately but my guitar skills are always improving and some of that goes over onto bass.
I definitely get that somebody who only plays a single note instrument (e.g sax) would benefit from at least understanding chords on a piano or guitar or other chord instrument. Same with singers, even if just a bit of simple self accompaniment. But I play guitar, both single note and chords. Hmm.
As for an instrument for me to move onto, what do you think? I've always liked sax... How easy would the physical side of things be (making noise and mastering scales and such on it)? After that all the theory I know from playing jazz guitar should merge over. And I've always liked piano, it's always handy to be able to play piano. I know plenty of theory, how to build chords and scales etc so that should translate very well onto a piano but at least at the moment I get lost looking at the keys. I can work things out, just slowly. I'd like to learn both jazz and classical on piano if I decide to pick it up. My guitar teacher was both the head of jazz guitar and piano at a uni (or college whatever you call it) for 30 ? years so he's basically a master on both.
What do you all think? My future musical life is in your hands.
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09-25-2011 03:02 AM
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Actually in the first line I meant at the same time, my bad.
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Where stringed instruments are concerned switching between them should be easy, especially moving onto the more challenging ones. I play tenor banjo in Chicago tuning for that ole' time dixyland jazz sound, this is great for studying 4 note chords.
My understanding of the fretboard came on a whole lot when I bought myself a digital keyboard, by this I mean stacking notes to make chords which is easy on a keyboard (8 fingers + 2 thumbs) but challenging for guitar (4 fingers + 1 thumb....or should that be the other way round?).
Bass is a good tool for learning chord tones set to a tempo, playing on the beat and emphasising the back beat also.
Yeah, learning more than one instrument is a great test and improves your musicianship, not to mention more gigs and more cash!
Q: What's the diference between jazz guitar and jazz bass?
A: $10 an hour.......
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I like how sax players really need to think of notes and how they need to blow to produce the right sound..
As a guitarist myself i find that i think way to much in 'boxes' and frets rather then notes.
I like piano because you can really clearly see the changes,guide tones, harmony etc of songs because all the notes are lined horozontal. Also you can play a chord while playing a melody. Yes you can do that on a guitar too, but its not the same..
I like the trumpet too because of the same reasons as sax and i think it has a really beautifull sound on its own.
I think its very helpfull for a muscian to play more then one instrument, each instrument uses other approaches, for example i like playing licks on a piano and transposing them to guitar.. or transcribing sax solo's i hear..
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I played around with a guitar for 20+yrs got into jazz 18months ago, then 6 /7 months ago I started playing sax, the only problem I have is I haven't picked the guitar up in that time.
Have fun what ever you decide to play
Tom
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Sammie, I think this depends on what your objectives are.
Originally Posted by SammieWammie
If you want to just have fun, then go after the instrument that looks the most fun to you.
But, I know you're thinking of a career.
Bass; it seems there are less bass players than guitar players. Also, in jazz, many bands have a guitar player but quite a few bands don't. Almost all bands have a bass player. Supply and demand, it's probably easier to get gigs as a bass player.
So I think bass is the best instrument to double on as far as getting gigs goes.
After that, I wouldn't be thinking of gigging but of theory, writing, recording and arranging skills. With that in mind, piano first and then drums.
And I practice what I preach, those are insturments I play. The rhythm section - guitar, bass, piano, and drums.
And... drums are really fun.Last edited by fep; 09-25-2011 at 12:13 PM.
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Mandolin. You can take it anywhere. It's a lot of fun to play and you can work on lots of jazz guitar related stuff on it. I take mine everywhere...
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I agree with fep but I would like to take it a step furter. Just playing a bunch of instruments may not get you more gig slots but what it will do especially if you're interested in writing and arranging is give you an idea of how other instruments function in different arangements. Playing piano for example can give you a great idea of how harmony is structured. Playing bass and drums reinforces the tempo. Playing horns will give you an understanding of how those sections fuction and some of the problems horn players experience in different arrangements and how to overcome them. Also, if you've been trained on other instruments, your reading skills might be better and if you write for the different instruments, your communication skills relating to other musicians are strengthened. You become a knowledgeable musician rather than --- dare I say, ---a geetar picker.( How I hate those two words.)
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A lot of good points made so far. I have some additional opinions to throw out as food for thought. But, first of all, my personal experience with multiple instruments:
I started playing guitar at age 12, and guitar was my focus but from the ages of maybe 12 to 21 I also learned how to play bass decently enough to be in a relatively successful rock band, learned how to play drums well enough to record an album as the drummer, and learned how to play piano well enough to have a better understanding of a lot of my favorite composers' and songwriters' harmonic conceptions. (I've always had shit for piano technique: Bad time, no real dynamic control, not much in the way of independence. I just know where things are and can use the piano to explore some harmonic or rhythmic ideas)
Since I was 21 (I'm 27) I've focused primarily on jazz guitar, but I did take a few years off where I focused more on songwriting, and at that time I took some voice lessons and would practice piano a little bit.
So, all that being said, some opinions and observations:
1. I do think that there's only so much time in the day, and proficiency and technique can only really be accomplished with time on your own instrument. There are so many things to work on (in terms of performance skills) that are very specific to your instrument, like rhythmic accuracy, technique, and the geography of that instrument.
However, in terms of arranging, composing, and more creative musical skills I think the more instruments you are at familiar with, the better. You get different perspectives from different instruments, you see the musical world in a different way. I think any musician who doesn’t play piano would benefit their understanding of harmony drastically by at least learning some mechanics – technique would be irrelevant, but just being able to combine chords, bass line, and melody and hear it right away is a huge asset to musical understanding.
I also think any musician who doesn’t play at least a little drum kit would benefit from learning. To be able to perform different rhythms with different limbs is a great aid in seeing the larger rhythmic picture of any musical situation, in my opinion. Not to mention on drums you’re exposed to a different perspective on rhythm and probably some more advanced rhythmic concepts.
So obviously if you agree with me then there are two things pulling at each other - proficiency/technique vs. more creative skills or skills of a larger musical understanding. Both are important, of course it depends what one is trying to accomplish.
I know a LOT of people who “play a lot of instruments” who just don’t know shit, to be honest, and can’t play any of them very well. Like I said, to achieve real technical mastery there needs to be focus, as there are only so many hours in the day. I know a lot of people whose focus on music is more creative rather than technical, and because of that wind up being curious about a lot of instruments, but they never are disciplined enough on one of their choices. Which is fine for them - they want a minimum of vocabulary to express somewhat immediate yet personal ideas. I don't see anything wrong with that, it just doesn't translate very well to being a professional jazz musician.
Most great musicians I know have one primary instrument and then other instruments that they can play decently or maybe at a professional level. It’s common for any musician with some performing experience to have some playing experience on different instruments because, well, we hang out and play each other’s instruments!
2. Bassists probably gig more than anybody. How many groups have you seen without a bass vs. how many have you seen without guitar or without piano or without sax, etc? I bet bassists gig even more than drummers. I'm speaking across all genres.
I think I could pontificate about what could be accomplished with various combinations of instrument to instrument switching or additions (like a guitar player learning sax, a pianist learning drums, etc) but this post is already pretty long and I should get back to practicing!
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Like fep and others have said, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
If you want to be a "better musician," you need to study music, not necessarily another instrument. [And yes, piano has some benefits over guitar for playing chords + melodies, but use it for understanding/hearing the music, not being a better pianist!]
If you want to "get more gigs," practice bass. [And, IMO, "guitarists" do not automatically "play bass;" yes, they're the same notes, but it's a different instrument with different skills.]
I have a music degree, and we all had to reach a certain proficiency on piano. As a guitar major, I had to also be in choir, so I learned more about singing, too. Both were fun experiences, and I learned a lot from them. I also took classes to learn (basic) woodwinds, strings, and percussion; again, all were fun, and I later performed in a percussion ensemble, which was a blast!
Did these experiences help with my overall musical development? Sure!
Since I'm currently focusing on being a jazz musician who happens to play guitar, do I need to continue doing any of these to reach my current goals? Nope.
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my two cents..
started at 8 on saxophone (alto)...my first guitar at 10...
from then on I learned to play...flute,clarinet,trumpet,drums (trap set & pipe band rudimentary style)...piano,5 string banjo,mandolin,violin (fiddle)...elementary trombone...4 string banjo...tenor guitar..classical guitar (helped me play in the style of Charlie Byrd)...
I think they helped me in my journey as did studying arranging and composition...knowing how to play them helps in the arranging process...
time on the instrument..(s)....pierre
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I started on bass, and initially picked up the guitar as a tool for composing. I did the same for drums. I'm still a crappy drummer, but I'm not a terrible guitar player. I also play tuba and consider myself a fair hand and that- not stunning, but competent enough. I'll have to pick up piano at some point to get that music degree. Pretty much every instrument I play brings crossover application for another instrument, and I like that.
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Started on guitar, played and studied jazz for ten years, mostly for fun and a few gigs. Started playing bass in 1991 and immediately gigged a lot with it. Started playing soprano sax in 1993 and did a few songs on gigs with it. Played some keyboards from 2000 til 2009.
I understand what the other guys in a band are doing, have a pretty fair understanding of how notes work on different instruments in different ranges and stay out of the other guys way.
I feel I'm a capable doubler on both guitar and bass and gig equally on both right now.
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09-26-2011, 10:39 AM #14Nuff Said Guest
In the last few years, I've started playing Upright Bass, I have an old 1890 German flat back Bass, it has such a beautiful deep sound and its a pleasure to play. I can't help but smile, when I play it.
Its interesting moving between guitar and Upright Bass, there's no frets, so you have to listen to the notes more carefully, but this has helped me when playing the guitar, I listen more.
I love guitar and it will always be my main instrument.
Interesting post
Nuff
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I have a cheap, student alto sax, some new reeds, and a few saxophone method books.
Some day, I'd actually love to pick that horn up and really learn how to play it. How can you think of jazz and not think of a saxophone?
I think I will try to give it a go, but not before I get somewhat better on the guitar.
A multi-instrumentist said it only takes a few months to get going, i.e., some sort of decent musical footing, on the alto sax--unlike, for example, the trumpet, which is an absolute beast, comparatively.
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I always liked this quote for those perplexing decisions.
I believe the true road to preeminent success in any line is to make yourself master of that line.
Andrew Carnegie.
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Mrs. Gumbo says playing tuba makes me a better kisser than just playing guitar.
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Lots of great points here, thanks people! I know bassists get more work than guitar, I'm often needed to play bass but guitar is so much more interesting. I'm thinking I'll work a bit more on my walking skill for now and maybe a bit of piano but I'll forget about classical piano technique and just keep my guitar technique up. Also I should work on funk bass a bit more, I used to be better and it's fun to pull out some funk, and useful. I've spent the last week on a bus with my school doing performing arts and I've performed on 12 strong guitar, guitar, bass, ukulele and even backup singing, definitely handy to pull those off. And after hours of sitting on a bus with ukuleles my ukulele skills have gotten pretty good. And the different perspective is great. Also I was working on singing too, my technique is no doubt terrible but I can copy someone else and I'm sure my ear has gotten better already just from that. My plan: guitar is 1st love, get proficient on bass, also sing and play piano more, at least enough to mess around with ideas and all. Thanks everybody
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My thoughts on the comments given so far:
- someone mentioned mandolin...I swear I just had this epiphany yesterday when I walked past a street mandolin player. I thought...can I tune that like a guitar? If so, it would make travelling so much easier! I'm going to research this...
- someone mentioned playing tuba makes one a better kisser...possibly. I can attest to the fact that playing a brass instrument will give you awesome sexy lips, which probably leads to more opportunities to kiss desirable subjects.
- some experience on a horn really teaches you to listen to your 'sound' when on the guitar. Acquiring that perspective is valuable, but once you have it, then that takes me to the next point...
- the guitar is freakin' hard enough to master so, gig considerations aside, if one is already busy with a non-music career and therefore their time is limited, if one wants to get really good at guitar they should probably just focus on guitar.
(but I'm still going to research the idea of a guitar-tuned mandolin for travelling. I think that still 'counts' as guitar.)
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Sexy lips maybe, flappy jowls a certainty! Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
Dizzy Gilespie, I rest my case!
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Studying piano is great if you are interested in theory, composition and arranging, or if you just like the sound of the piano. I have learned to play a number of instruments in my my lifetime and I enjoy playing/continuing to learn to play them but if I had to get a gig tomorrow it would be as a jazz double bass/Fender bass player. I started playing bass because I could never find one for a quartet (I was playing sax/flute). Interestingly enough, although not even close to being my first instrument, bass is the instrument I have the most affinity for (setting myself up for a drummer joke here, I'm afraid); I just seem to have a good ear for bass fills and keeping time and laying out when needed and hearing when the piano/guitar is using subs. The instruments I would really love to master (piano/guitar) are maddeningly challenging and I don't think I'll ever be more than mediocre at best, but I love the practicing. OTOH, I am a pretty fair arranger. The more you know about theory and sound production, the easier it becomes to pick up new instruments. Just my opinion.
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