Fusion

[Hexxor]

What do you think of Fusion? That style between Rock and Jazz. I really like it. Started to listen to it a while ago. I think Richie Kotzen's Inner Galactic Fusion experience is a wonderful Fusion Album. I also Like Greg Howe and Frank gambale.

-Hexxor-

[aPAULo]

I dont hate fusion but im not a fan of it either. I dont really like the combination of jazz and rock. It seems more of like a fake or poser jazz, IMO.

[jesusjazz]

I've been getting into fusion lately and in some ways i feel it's kind of necessary for a jazz guitarist. I love Miles Davis' Bitches Brew and In a Silent Way, I often listen to those when i write. I also really dig Mahavishnu Orchestra, and occasionally Weather Report, Return to Forever, that sort of thing. I think fusion got a little too light and glossy-sounding in the late 70's and 80's, but it's still interesting to listen to. I've heard of Greg Howe, but I've never really listened to him; i'll have to check out those others you mentioned as well.

[Chrizzia]

first of all I dont think there is anything called "fake jazz".
Jazz is( or ought to be) ever changing.
When Miles, Coltrane and Parker played they strived to expand the music and I think fusion is a golden opportunity to do so.
Duke Ellington got it: "There are only two kinds of music. Good music and the other kind".
poeple should not be so focused on playing like poeple have played before, but try to stretch the genre(s). At least that is my oppinion.
I think it is great to study the old masters and learn from them, it is necessary. But it is important to create your own voice.
I hate the arrogant term " real jazzer".
Jazz is based on improvising. If you do that, create music in the moment it is played; you are as jazz as you can get.
Learn and develop!

That is why I love the new albums by Kurt Rosenwinkel.
He is fantastic.

Just my two cents...

[aPAULo]

Yes I understand the whole aspect on the jazz genre expanding. Maybe I shouldn't have said "fake jazz" but I do feel that jazz and rock just aren't good mixtures. But I do like the idea of expanding jazz..

[mr. beaumont]

i love a lot of the classic fusion from the early days, headhunters, miles' 70's output, some of the CTI stuff. i think later on the focus started to be on dazzling musicianship and not on groove, and this is the stuff that sounds weak to me.

there's still groups doing some really interesting things in the fusion vein, like tortoise, supersilent and fontanelle. these groups are good because they're approaching both jazz and rock from a modern perspective, not some psuedo 70's "lets riff in 7/8 and then solo for 20 minutes over a one chord vamp"...a lot of the shredder stuff rings very hollow in my book...

[seanlowe]

Fusion is a reeeeeeeeeally wide term for jazz particularly, cos it absorbs so much other music, eg just in the jazz/rock thing there is

• Fusion
• funk-jazz-rock fusion
• 2nd wave fusion
• berklee school
• 2nd berklee school
• acid

and thatsjust off the top of me turnip; some interesting histories of it all on the net, have a gape.

[SonicBlast]

Fusion is essential. I mean some people need a mixture as well as rock and jazz. It brings the two together as well as making them pole opposites with a bridge between them. But the other side of fusion is the musicianship. It's better than most rock and as good or better than the majority of jazz. It's the cream of the crop of musicians.

[MattEg]

I like fusion, most of the typical stuff people have mentioned with the Jazz guitar superstars in them. I like how something like Mahavishnu Orchestra is considered fusion and then the Shakti is also consider fusion. They do fuse different genres together and that is the point. I like the term because you never know what your in for if you don't know who the band or person is.
It's like playing the lottery for me or picking a Al Dimiola cd.

[EclecticGuitar]

I really like jazz fusion! During University days (awhile ago!) I really loved listening to jazz fusion artists like Chick Corea and Return to Forever, Jeff Beck, Pat Metheny, Al Dimeola, Weather Report, Jean Luc Ponty, The Blackbirds, Phil Keaggy, etc. Now that I've started to learn how to play the guitar my interest in jazz fusion is returning.

[Butch]

Fusion is essential. I mean some people need a mixture as well as rock and jazz. It brings the two together as well as making them pole opposites with a bridge between them. But the other side of fusion is the musicianship. It's better than most rock and as good or better than the majority of jazz. It's the cream of the crop of musicians.

Hey SonicBlast - I don't agree with the musicanship comment. How do you support a statement regarding fusion musicians having the best musicianship? The cream of the crop?

Just curious,
Butch

[Chrizzia]

Hey Butch.

I will try to defend the comment you mentioned, although I am not the writer.

Fusion-musicians need a broader knowledge of different music-styles to play in contrast to " real-jazzers". They will more easily blend in with other kinds of music without playing with accent. At least the good ones. I think that a good musician is a musician with a love for all kinds of music and one who has the ability to express it...

[mr. beaumont]

nah, i'll disagree with that. a good musician likely enjoys and respects many kinds of music, but he may not be able to express him/herself in every context. but that doesn't make them less of a musician...

wes montgomery, for one, would have had a damn tough time playing some classical music you put in front of him-- but does that diminish his value? there's nothing wrong with specializing in something...

to be honest, a lot of modern fusion i hear seems to showcase players dabbling in sounds and mastering none.

[Butch]

I totally agree Mr. Beaumont. Very well said.

I heard Pat Metheny do a rock and roll shuffle at one of his concerts several years ago and it was just awful. Yet, I don't deny that Pat, Lyle, Dave Wieckel (sp), Steven Rodby and the other guys in his band have some serious game!

Would someone start a thread on what musicanship means to people? I have started too many threads, so I think I should be disqualified from starting yet another philosophical one!!

Butch

[Jazzarian]

What do you think of Fusion? That style between Rock and Jazz. I really like it. Started to listen to it a while ago. I think Richie Kotzen's Inner Galactic Fusion experience is a wonderful Fusion Album. I also Like Greg Howe and Frank gambale.

-Hexxor-

Gambale and Henderson sound too much like metal to me.

Better fusion comes from the pioneers of the 70s, like Carlton, Ford, Ritenour, Lukather, Holdsworth, Bullock, McLaughlin, throw in the old Santana and Allman Brothers too.

[Jazzarian]

Fusion is essential. I mean some people need a mixture as well as rock and jazz. It brings the two together as well as making them pole opposites with a bridge between them. But the other side of fusion is the musicianship. It's better than most rock and as good or better than the majority of jazz. It's the cream of the crop of musicians.

Most good "rock" was fusion. Be it ELP, YES, Santana, Allman Brothers, Steely Dan, Brian Auger, Traffic, Focus, PFM........

Back then it was pretigious to be "jazz influenced".

Alas, brains and rock don't mix and sell apparently. I blame M(oron)TV.

[Dennoow]

Most good "rock" was fusion. Be it ELP, YES, Santana, Allman Brothers, Steely Dan, Brian Auger, Traffic, Focus, PFM........

Back then it was pretigious to be "jazz influenced".

Alas, brains and rock don't mix and sell apparently. I blame M(oron)TV.

The're not fusion IMO. I'll immediatly admit that the're a very thin line between them. But the bands you've mentioned are Progressive rock bands. I don't know the criteria, perhaps on fusion it's a bit less diatonic? I don't know. I love both styles. I actually played progressive rock/metal for a long time (dream theater, IQ, Yes, The Flower Kings, Camel etc), it's still my most favoured type of music I'd say.

I like the mixture of jazz and rock. I'm not saying Gambale is a better guitarist than Metheny or Martino - It's just different IMO. I like both styles and hate to make a contest out of music. I think not one musician is less of a musician than another, it's a matter of taste. Although I must add that I wouldn't put Francesco Farreri or Rusty Cooley up there with fusion guitarists since their phrasing, vibrato and bending are HORRIFYING (especially Farreri, if you want to laugh really hard, check out some of his "tunes").

Btw Greg Howe is probably my all time favourite guitarist. I just which he'd play live like he does on his albums. Live he tends to get a little repetative; Still I've never heard any solo as amazing as GH's "stringed sanity". It's filled with such energy and the way he combines techniques to but accents everywhere... Stunning, just stunning! That's a difference between Jazz and Fusion. In Jazz most players will use alternate and sweep picking as their main techniques. In Fusion, because of the distortion and low action I suppose, Legato/tapping is way more popular (ok, now someone's probably going to mention stanley Jordan, and you're right, he's phenomenal with the duible handed tapping, but also an exeption!). In the end it doesn't matter that much how you play the notes, what matters is thát you play them, the rest is up to our personal taste!

[CC323]

Don't forget brilliant greats like Allan Holdsworth and Shawn Lane. Lane's Indian music influence and his work with Hellborg make him #1 in my opinion. At least as far as fusion guitar is concerned.

[hot ford coupe]

There's no one style that's any better than any other. There's nothing except individual preferences for the different styles from ragtime all the way through what's going on today. When we start to claim superiority for one group or another, we get elitism and that leads to arguments and fights. Personally, I don't like fusion and I'm not going into why. For the record, I love bebop, swing and cool jazz. Instead, let's pick up our favorite axes and play our favorite music. Let's learn what we need to learn and share our knowledge with others. Not to be offensive or anything, like Frank Zappa was quoted as saying, "Just shut up and play yer guitar".

[CC323]

Yeah, I agree. I'm most definitely not trying to get in an argument. I just wanted to make sure people know who shawn lane is, as he seemed to have been forgotten.

[a22]

I love fusion, I love the gritty rock, I love heavy metal and I love traditional jazz in all it's forms as well as many other genres such as some purely electronic music. The only thing I really can't stand is some of the newer forms of rock and purely commercial crap that's sold to youngsters

[m78w]

For me jazz is always a fusion of two or more styles. Even the early jazz had a mix of blues and western classical music, then country snuck in, the rock and world music etc.

One of the things I love about jazz is that someone with a rock background and someone with a country background can get together and jam on Autumn Leaves and communicate on a musical level. Even though there are some who don't like to invite rockers or classical players into the "jazz realm", the greatest players have always had a diverse background of influences.

To use a political term, I think jazz is the "melting pot" of musical genres/styles. Pretty cool thing imo.

MW

[trtjazz]

One of the most appealing things about jazz to me is the mental openness to "push the envelope", to go where no man/woman has gone before and often in a non traditional way. I am not a very good in the box sort of thinker and often makes my work sound "wrong or unexpected" to traditionalists.

I think people should play and listen to what suits them and their way of thinking. We as listeners should do the same and if it doesn't suit us move on to what does. None of it is wrong it's just appeals or doesn't to us and we should leave it at that if we cannot be open to it.

Here's something that usually gets me into a debate with lovers of Stevie Ray Vaughn. Personally I think he was one of the greatest technical guitarists of all time and still I did not like his body of work much at all. It does not take from his abilities only my lack of like for blues and lightening fast guitar work with no point to me except to be impressive, but I accept him as a great guitarist none-the-less.

Miles Davis like Picasso was always pushing the jazz envelope and while I did not care for either's work, I did like their ability to see something different and different possibilities from the norm or expected.

I really get bored hearing 4 bars of anything and thinking "ok, I know exactly where this tune is going, because I've heard it before, just with a different title."

Last thing on the point is that we need to keep in mind that everyone expresses opinions, nothing more nor less. It wasn't etched in the tablet that came down the mountain with Moses, it's just opinions not fact. When I first started posting music on the net years ago a gentleman from France took an immediate disliking to my work because it was nontraditional nonrule following "world jammin' jazz" (as I call it) and constantly ripped it and me to shreds, told me "I had no business playing jazz and should stop." Glad I din't listen to him, what do I care whether he liked it or not, it was just an his opinion which he's entitled to (even if it was wrong) :-).

So I say Fusion ....... JAM ON! If that's what works for you.

[Cygnus-M]

I like fusion. I've been playing fusion music for quite sometime. Of course, in my dictionary fusion is the mixing of different genres. Doesnt necessarily have to be Jazz and Rock.

I'm more inclined to the Indian Classical meets rock meets jazz concepts. And it has little to do with 240 nps at 280 bpm in 13/16 meter. Its just really good music: interesting rhythms, groovy basslines, creative chords and hum-able melodies. So I've had tablas playing with guitars and bass and someone singing over it either a proper song strucuture or improvising.

As long as it grooves and everyone's having fun. I dont really define fusion as being "Mahavishnu" or "Coltrane Sessions" or "Jimmy Herring". The way I see it, if you took the Belgian folk dance compositions and kneaded it along with native african rhythms and put a little coffee house friendly lyrics and melody over it: that'd be fusion as well.

Of course, thats my 2 cents and no one has to agree with it.

Currently working on Death Metal Flamenco fusion ... now there's a concept !

Oh, and Fareri and Rusty are just shredders, not really fusion players at all. Derryl Gabel might be someone u want to see, if you're looking for some really tasty shred in your outside playing.

[pierre richard]

It's like these two guys at a concert where one of the guys knows who the guitarist is and the other doesn't..

after the first song the one who knew the guitarist said to the other

" man can he make that guitar talk or what?"

the other one said "yea..the guitar said put me back in the case"

time on the instrument...pierre