The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnRoss
    Of course blues is a genre, a separate one from jazz and slightly older than it. It might be worth looking at their origins a second, because although the two are associated with Afro-American slave descendents, blues and jazz were culturally different from the outset. Blues was a folk music, arising among/from people who were musically (and often literally) illiterate (which doesn't mean unskilled and much less unmusical). Jazz on the other hand was from the start a music form associated with trained, educated musicians, people like W. C. Handy. And like "art" music down the ages, it drew on the folk music around it, including the blues.

    But the blues was not the only 'folk' music which influenced jazz. There was ragtime (both the original dance music and the formal piano music that developed from it), the plantation music and minstrel shows (which tend not to be discussed much in these politically correct times) which Stephen Foster milked, so-called "Spanish" music (which really meant Mexican, ranchero-type things, or Cuban habaneras and criollas), and more.

    So could jazz have existed without the blues? Sure, however hard it may be to imagine.
    Nicely summed up, John.
    Probably one of the biggest single influences was kletzmer music. But I guess that takes us a bit off topic. Well, no it doesn't, I guess, because you don't get much Kletzmer influenced blues........ Now there's a thought!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffstritt
    I'll make it really simple for you. Blues is a feeling, Jazz is a genre of music. Every style of music has it's "Blues" person.

    Rock- Eric Clapton
    Country- Roy Nichols
    Jazz- Kenny Burrell

    The list goes on and on. People say blues is simple but that is an understatement.
    I thought Grant Green was the jazz guitarist that everybody considers the bluesiest. If that's a real word.

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  4. #28

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    Who's everybody??

  5. #29

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    Another way of saying the general consensus.

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  6. #30

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    Blues and Jazz are baaed on different attitudes and philosophies - catchy hooks vs. sophistication; blue-collar bar vs. downtown...

    You can mix stuff together but when you do warm sounding jazz runs or when you go for a bend with piercing tone - nobody will be confused as to what musical style you're playing.

  7. #31

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    Jazz is the Blues' precocious little brother.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_L
    Blues and Jazz are baaed on different attitudes and philosophies - catchy hooks vs. sophistication; blue-collar bar vs. downtown...

    You can mix stuff together but when you do warm sounding jazz runs or when you go for a bend with piercing tone - nobody will be confused as to what musical style you're playing.
    So if someone is doing a bend with a piercing tone over a II\V\I type standard they are playing what?

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    So if someone is doing a bend with a piercing tone over a II\V\I type standard they are playing what?
    They say it's not jazz if you're bending strings.

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  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    So if someone is doing a bend with a piercing tone over a II\V\I type standard they are playing what?
    Oooohhh... I do it a lot - sounds a lot more bluesy than jazzy. Not saying that you can't bend in a jazz solo, or that it will never sound jazzy, etc... but if you aim for the blues - with your tone, note choice and technique, the result will be, well - bluesy... even if you play over jazz chords and with non-pentatonic scales...
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    I was kind of expecting people to notice the examples more than my general idea. The internet is where you can't make any generalization without triggering someone. Maybe it's for the best... but it makes describing anything in the social realm much more difficult.

  11. #35

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    All my favorite jazz guitar players loved to play blues.




  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_L
    Oooohhh... I do it a lot - sounds a lot more bluesy than jazzy. Not saying that you can't bend in a jazz solo, or that it will never sound jazzy, etc... but if you aim for the blues - with your tone, note choice and technique, the result will be, well - bluesy... even if you play over jazz chords and with non-pentatonic scales...
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    I agree that when using the common blues guitar techniques in a jazz solo, over jazz chords, one will sound bluesy. But I don't call that playing the blues. I call that sounding bluesy while playing jazz.

    To me what makes a song someone is playing either the blues or jazz is the harmonic progression, more so than their overall sound. E.g. I view a lot of fusion as playing with a rock sound over a jazz chord progression.

    Of course genre categorization needs to be nuanced as well. There is not one definition 'they' all agree upon.

  13. #37

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    In a Venn diagram, Miles Davis is right in the middle of the overlapping section of “blues” and “jazz.” So very wonderfully and uniquely so.


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  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    I agree that when using the common blues guitar techniques in a jazz solo, over jazz chords, one will sound bluesy. But I don't call that playing the blues. I call that sounding bluesy while playing jazz.

    To me what makes a song someone is playing either the blues or jazz is the harmonic progression, more so than their overall sound. E.g. I view a lot of fusion as playing with a rock sound over a jazz chord progression.

    Of course genre categorization needs to be nuanced as well. There is not one definition 'they' all agree upon.
    If you aim to be jazzy you'll get there over a standard 12 bar blues or even over a 1 chord jam... I just feel that each genre is focused on different things and different techniques create the "right" feeling.

    I do get what you're saying - I'm more of a blues player... but when I write I always have the tendency to explore new chords and not limit myself to the standard 12 bars. But when I add chords it usually makes songs loose their bluesy tension and drive...

  15. #39

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    "The blues is the beginning of jazz..."

    Frank Vignola giving a short lesson on blues (in Bb) and playing over rhythm changes.


  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    All my favorite jazz guitar players loved to play blues.



    I agree but will add that all of my favorite jazz musicians loved to play blues. If you don't at least have a feel for the blues you're not going to be able to really play jazz or any vernacular American music.

  17. #41

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    Jazz is the teacher - Blues is the preacher

  18. #42

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    Blues isn't a how it's a what.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Blues isn't a how it's a what.
    Jazz vs Blues-giphy-gif

  20. #44

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    I was hoping I'd get busted for that.

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonray
    Jazz is the teacher - Blues is the preacher
    ...
    Last edited by Stevebol; 04-01-2018 at 02:29 AM.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitaRoland
    Jazz vs Blues? Is there more similarities than differences? I feel like certain questions on this forum seem to be ignored when it comes to blues - and I mean jazzy blues?

    /R
    'Jazzy blues' isn't jazz blues. Jazzy blues is a novelty and good guitarists like Duke Robilliard who do it know that. He's been around a long time.
    Jazz blues is different. It's how jazz musicians play blues.

    And, I'm talking to an 8 year old thread....

  23. #47

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    I just found out that my classical guitar is dead! It was a loner from my cousin's husband who lives in Charleston and he kept it up in the attic so apparently that humidity did it in before he even gave it to me! The bridge is falling off and so are the bracings inside the guitar. The problem is it would cost more than the guitar is worth to fix it and I talked to my cousin and she said that it wasn't a big deal and he's cool with it. So now I gotta figure out what kinda burial I want lol. I'm leaning towards a Who smash and bash type of sendoff. Any thoughts?

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  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by FZ2017
    I just found out that my classical guitar is dead! It was a loner from my cousin's husband who lives in Charleston and he kept it up in the attic so apparently that humidity did it in before he even gave it to me! The bridge is falling off and so are the bracings inside the guitar. The problem is it would cost more than the guitar is worth to fix it and I talked to my cousin and she said that it wasn't a big deal and he's cool with it. So now I gotta figure out what kinda burial I want lol. I'm leaning towards a Who smash and bash type of sendoff. Any thoughts?

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    Sounds like a bad case of the blues, there, bud.

    Maybe use it to practice repairs?

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    'Jazzy blues' isn't jazz blues. Jazzy blues is a novelty and good guitarists like Duke Robilliard who do it know that. He's been around a long time.
    Jazz blues is different. It's how jazz musicians play blues.

    And, I'm talking to an 8 year old thread....
    I think Duke Robillard's a fine player. He made a couple records with Herb Ellis that really work for me.


  26. #50

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    There is nothing less jazz or blues than the word 'jazzy'.

    I hate that word. And I generally love words.