Rhythm

[Christian Miller]

And then people blame Tristano for telling his students to take on a day job ...

Yeah i mean it’s a moot point for jazz these days. It’s a side hustle … but it’s an income stream, and a fun one.

it was a different scene when he was teaching, but I daresay the real work was always more commercial, less jazz which is why he said it. Other teachers would say don’t turn your nose up at non jazz work and use your skills. Nile Rogers teacher told him that (a student of Van Eps iirc). I’m going more in the latter direction as I slowly get over myself lol. (No really.)

Most musicians I work with play and teach. Others play shows. Some do unrelated day jobs. Many either still do, or went through a phase of doing pop tours and so on.

It’s the compromise we make to play the music we love.

And when you are young playing every weekend isn’t so bad. You get older and the idea of playing 200+ shows a year or whatever becomes less appealing. So you end up in some sort of sandwich career in any case.


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[Christian Miller]

I’d love to sell out but no one’s buying haha.


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[Christian Miller]

That's not rude, that other life was a quarter of a century ago. But I think the most money that you can make on tour anyway is still in merchandise (and that's the only way for a support act -- or a smaller act -- to get at least a little financial return). Even if you do not sell many CDs anymore these days (vinyl might be a different story depending on the target audience) you can still sell T-Shirts and other stuff. I know a few bands personally (having worked for them -- lighting) that made a few thousand Euros every night from merchandise alone. But that was after they became really famous (nationally) and sold out big places -- which is rather the exception.

Have you seen ticket prices these days? I mean the price gouging websites don’t help but that’s a lot of slices of the pie right there….

I remember seeing Radiohead for £20 in 2004. Just saying it makes me feel like my dad talking about sleeping through Hendrix at the Isle of Wight lol. No wonder Gen Z aren’t really into music, they can’t afford it. Tbh they can’t afford to leave the house.

Provincial theatres just put on wall to wall tribute bands for older people. They can be bizarrely niche too. There’s an early Genesis tribute act that always seems to be on at one of the places I teach (music school with an auditorium). Presumably someone must go see them.

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[Bop Head]

Yeah i mean it’s a moot point for jazz these days. It’s a side hustle … but it’s an income stream, and a fun one.

it was a different scene when he was teaching, but I daresay the real work was always more commercial, less jazz which is why he said it. Other teachers would say don’t turn your nose up at non jazz work and use your skills. Nile Rogers teacher told him that (a student of Van Eps iirc). I’m going more in the latter direction as I slowly get over myself lol. (No really.)

Most musicians I work with play and teach. Others play shows. Some do unrelated day jobs. Many either still do, or went through a phase of doing pop tours and so on.

It’s the compromise we make to play the music we love.

And when you are young playing every weekend isn’t so bad. You get older and the idea of playing 200+ shows a year or whatever becomes less appealing. So you end up in some sort of sandwich career in any case.


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Nile Rodgers was a Ted Dunbar student. Dunbar worked as a pharmacist mainly (although he was e.g. working as a sub for Wes) until he got a full-time job as jazz professor at Rutgers (where he also taught Mark Kleinhaut who later decided to work as a banker mainly).

(Nile might probably have had other teachers as well.)

EDIT: I was insecure for a moment if I had mixed up Rodgers and Vernon Reid and a quick search brought up this article you are possibly relating to:

Nile Rodgers Reveals How Support And Encouragement Changed His Career | HuffPost UK Life

[Bop Head]

Have you seen ticket prices these days? I mean the price gouging websites don’t help but that’s a lot of slices of the pie right there….

I remember seeing Radiohead for £20 in 2004. Just saying it makes me feel like my dad talking about sleeping through Hendrix at the Isle of Wight lol. No wonder Gen Z aren’t really into music, they can’t afford it. Tbh they can’t afford to leave the house.

Provincial theatres just put on wall to wall tribute bands for older people. They can be bizarrely niche too. There’s an early Genesis tribute act that always seems to be on at one of the places I teach (music school with an auditorium). Presumably someone must go see them.

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TBH I have not been to many concerts in the past 10 years after I quit the lighting job. I rather go to sessions and sing and play myself.

But I just checked, e.g.

Marc Ribbot @ Munich's Unterfahrt Jazz Club: 38 EUR, members and students 19 EUR

Al Di Meola Quintet @ Nightclub/Hotel Bayerischer Hof: 58,-- / 78,-- / 98,-- EUR !!!!

(the latter is not my cup of tea, but OMG ... although I could probably get a free ticket through old connections)

Adele -- exclusive open-air shows in Munich -- special VIP tickets: 1252,50 EUR !!!!! OMFG ...

[AllanAllen]

TBH I have not been to many concerts in the past 10 years after I quit the lighting job. I rather go to sessions and sing and play myself.

But I just checked, e.g.

Marc Ribbot @ Munich's Unterfahrt Jazz Club: 38 EUR, members and students 19 EUR

Al Di Meola Quintet @ Nightclub/Hotel Bayerischer Hof: 58,-- / 78,-- / 98,-- EUR !!!!

(the latter is not my cup of tea, but OMG ... although I could probably get a free ticket through old connections)

Adele -- exclusive open-air shows in Munich -- special VIP tickets: 1252,50 EUR !!!!! OMFG ...

lol, welcome to the future. Instead of improving the quality of life, everything is smaller and more expensive.

[Bobby Timmons]

^ Well I'm pals with the bot.

[Bobby Timmons]

Update on the drum pad jams: So, I haven't needed anything super technical to challenge the improvement of my facility. I realized my left hand dexterity is so bad that I can't even play a single stroke roll with consistent feel. This also negatively affects my piano playing. So I'm doing a single stroke roll with the wrist range of motion fully extended back to build control, then regular. Also doing the same thing with a single hand lol.

[AllanAllen]

Dude, seriously, Stick Control is the book you want. Look at this.

[pamosmusic]

Dude, seriously, Stick Control is the book you want. Look at this.

A BIG +1

For other instruments, you can also replace L R with whatever you want ... long/short, accent/no accent, etc. I use it for picking down/up.

Great book.

[Bobby Timmons]

^ That's good stuff. Probably too advanced for me.

[AllanAllen]

^ That's good stuff. Probably too advanced for me.

It's perfect for you, Exercise 1 is the single stroke roll, you're doing single hand rolls too soon. Work up to that.

[Bobby Timmons]

Ok I got the book! I meant I'm doing single strokes with 1 hand each, not rolls.

[Bobby Timmons]

This is the most effective exercise for targeting my keys technique I've ever encountered lol. Forget about working rhythm, I'm just working technique for now. The ability to move my hands and wrists correctly. My left hand being shoddy was preventing me from playing with total control with the hands together on keys. Just trying to do a slow single stroke roll with full control, correct feel, and the strokes exaggerated all the way back is targeting that. I'm glad I decided to get sticks and a pad.

[Bobby Timmons]

Really liking this program so I'm going to move forward with it. Mastering drum kit is totally not feasible for me. But I can feel so much benefit on piano from just a little bit of drumming on the pad with my hands. Have just been doing single stroke roll, double stroke roll, and paradiddle to get control of my hands. My hands are starting to feel less jankity and it's getting fun so I'm going to do more stuff. Gonna start doing Parker tunes, learning more rudiments, and listening to drummers for ideas.

[AllanAllen]

Everything you need is in the stick control book.

[Bobby Timmons]

No it isn't foo. There are 40 rudiments which aren't in there. But I am working through it. The first exercises are all 8th notes with different organizations of R and L. I can barely do a paradiddle. So I am not going to make it through the first pages any time soon lol. But I looked at the other patterns and they seem cool and useful.

[pamosmusic]

Everything you need is in the stick control book.

Stick Control for the Snare Drummer?

I love that book. I use it for guitar ... make R down and L up and use it for weird picking exercises.