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I enjoy the monthly "Practical Standards" group as a way to work through the "Great American Songbook" tunes. I have also wondered if we should have a group working through the "jazz originals" that are mainstays of many jam sessions. Tunes like "All Blues," "Four," "Graveyard," (oops, GROOVEYARD) "Joy Spring," etc. I don't even know how the list would be compiled, but as a monthly exercise that could be a fun complement to the "Practical Standards" group.
What do you all think?Last edited by lawson-stone; 01-09-2021 at 08:32 PM.
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01-09-2021 01:26 PM
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I think it’s a great idea, I find some of the old ‘songbook’ standards can be a little uninteresting at times. There are loads of great jazz original tunes out there.
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I also agree that a focus on what I call jazz-jazz-standards (songs written by jazz musicians and for their own recording, instead of a musical, play, or the movies), by a working-group, is a great idea.
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I thought if it was in the real book it was a standard.
Everybody ready for this can of worms...
What makes a song a standard?
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I'd be all about this.
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Sounds like a great idea.
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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As a latecomer to this thing, I didn't realize such tunes weren't included, or that tune selection was being done chronologically. I'd rather see that re-thought and just open the selection up to anything that is a standard in the sense of being part of more-ore-less standard jazz repertoire than proliferate the categories.
John
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Actually I don’t think the practical standards are entirely in chronological order, I seem to recall it’s based on the order of the tunes at the jazzstandards website (but excluding any tunes which have already been done in previous incarnations of the ‘practical standards’ thread - there’s a ‘sticky’ thread at the top which lists these).
I believe the jazzstandards website says it lists them in order of the number of recordings. So this does tend to prioritise the older ‘songbook’ standards, over the ‘jazz original’ tunes, which generally occur much later in the list.
At least I think that’s how it works!Last edited by grahambop; 01-09-2021 at 06:40 PM.
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Thanks for clearing that up.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
I often find the most soulful playing on an album by many of my favorite jazz musicians is on this tune. E.g. Milt and Pass.
I guess it is all in the groove.
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There was a time when Wizard would ask for song suggestions for the Practical Standards thread. Nothing is written in stone.
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Are you proposing something like this?
andyb
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Originally Posted by fep
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Link to said list?
I could only find alphabetical lists
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The monthly "Practical Standards" group genaraly show how to play a head of the standards.I think more important in jazz is improvisation over chord progrsions.
It takes a lot of time be a good improviser and a good jazz player.
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Originally Posted by Lobomov
Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals Contents
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Originally Posted by kris
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Oh .. I got Rhythm next month?
That's a big one
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Never heard of it!
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Let's do some tunes written after 1940!
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How about we just play the tunes we like, instead of what we are "supposed to play"
biggest problem with jazz is that it is unapproachable to a lot of people, imo largely because of this mentality
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Originally Posted by patshep
I tend to recall that there have been a few play whatever threads .. if nothing else there was a play your own compositions thread at one point.
The good thing with the standard of the month approach is that it takes away having to decide what to play, you have 30 days to learn the tune and there is at times some back and forth within the thread, where people inspire each other.
It's not a bad thing but if anyone has the energy to make a list of 12 modern songs for the rest of the year, I don't see why having two standards of the month would be a bad thing. If there is little interest then we can always just let it die again
Just needs someone to take charge and say this is it .. here are 12 tunes, let's get it going
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Any interest in trying Bruce Forman's list of the top 10 "must know" tunes?
Originally Posted by dingusmingus
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Yea... maybe have two tunes each month... I would think most have already played Bruce's list a million times.
Personally.... I use to learn and gain much more from trying tunes I didn't really know. When you spend lots of time on one tune at a time and basically memorize everything etc... That becomes your learning style, it's more of the classical tradition. Not bad or wrong but not the only approach to learning how to play in a jazz style. And without actually practicing performing jazz in a non rehearsed style, well it generally doesn't happen.
I guess you could just have two different style performances of each tune. Different styles imply different harmonic and rhythmic organization...
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Thats precisely why I dig Jam of the Week, Reg.
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Do We Need "Practical Jazz Originals"?
Yes and no. Basically, a tune's a tune. You've got the head, the chords and the rhythm, and off you go, whether it's 'Autumn In New York' or 'All Blues'. I agree that some of the GASB tunes can be a bit dull but it depends how you do them.
So, yes, we could do the list and also do off-the-list requests, but I doubt because a tune is more modern it's necessarily going to magically transform our playing. I don't think it will unless we magically transform the tune!
To be frank, I don't see a lot of experimentation here. The standard way of doing things seems to be to get a backing track - which is nearly always in the usually accepted style - and grind it out. Pretty much the same with chord melodies, really. But how many people change the rhythm or key, or reharm it?
For example, Try looking at Rosenwinkel doing 'More Than You Know', which is the current one. Improv starts at 3.40 aprox. It's not the tune, it's the way you do it.
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HOWEVER...
The Jazz Standards list at the moment is being followed by 'Rank'.
Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals Contents
There's nothing to stop us changing it and using the 'By Year' order. For example, here's the 1960's list. Looks a bit different!
Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals Contents
But I think a mixture is better.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Seems to me it depends on the harmony.
The jazz standards mentioned in the OP include Four and All Blues -- great tunes, of course, but the harmony isn't really much different from tin pan alley standards.
Wayne Shorter tunes, otoh, are different. If your goal includes playing that kind of tune, you have to go beyond tin pan alley.
For that matter, Stella and Miss Jones are examples of older tunes with some more sophisticated harmony.
On the way, it may be worth playing standards which are not in the usual key.
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Originally Posted by kris
But if one is going to improvise over an actual song (jazz standard), I have found one can't over learn a melody or practice variations of the melody too-much.
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Originally Posted by jameslovestal
I wrote about guitarists who played only head and stoped.
It is different problem how the melody of the standard inspire jazz player.
A lot of tunes has the same or similar chord changes and you practise over these changes...in.ex major jazz blues or minor jazz blues or rhytm changes...etc.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
You answered yourself.Who is ready doing experimentation here?
Kurt Rosenwinkel is one of the top guitarists in world jazz.
There are a lot of hobbists here and it is really difficult to tell somebody play like Kurt or Pat,or Joe.
...anyway Tunes inspire improvisers/ melodies and chords/.........
Kris
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Originally Posted by ragman1
You're right and I absolutely agree. All of this standard of the month extravaganza is way too much. We should just do All the things you are and leave it at that
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Originally Posted by Lobomov
To play good jazz tune like All The Things...it's take More Than You Know times...:-)
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One problem with jazz tunes is the tendency to want to sound like the record. This is not so much a problem with vocal standards. (Not that sounding like the record is necessarily a bad thing to aim for always; it’s a great way of learning.)
It is possible to do this, but a bit harder, takes a bit more work. Fun though.
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It is a good example how to play modern tune in Django style.
Orginal take:
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Originally Posted by kris
Anyway can’t watch vids - is that the one with THAT Brad Mehldau solo? (Looks like Brad in the thumbnail.)
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Line up is; Joshua Redman - ts Brad Mehldau - p Christian McBride - b Brian Blade - dr
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Originally Posted by Lobomov
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by kris
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Originally Posted by Lobomov
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Originally Posted by kris
Does anyone know the depth of the Joe Pass...
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