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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    For some of us playing the head well is about as far as we can get in a month's time. The thread is in "Lessons" section which might suggest it's aimed at perhaps beginning/intermediate players, though obviously lots of advanced players post (THANKS FOR THAT!). I think learning to play the head well is a great first step for somebody closer to the beginning of their journey.
    +1

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Yeah you can. Totally works.
    Ok...I do not know what we exactly talking about.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    Ok...I do not know what we exactly talking about.
    Something like this perhaps (playing tunes in Django style):


  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Something like this perhaps (playing tunes in Django style):

    Yes Donna L...Django style is a style sometimes called Gypsy Jazz or Jazz Manouche.
    Playing ballads like Blue In Green in that style? Not work for me...but who knows.

  6. #55

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    I can’t play manouche style, just trying to play bop style keeps me busy enough!

    I saw Remi Harris a few years ago and he was so inspiring that I was tempted to get one of those Gitane guitars. I spoke to him and he said he was just playing one of the cheap basic models - he made it sound amazing. But eventually I realised I wouldn’t really play it enough to justify it.

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I can’t play manouche style, just trying to play bop style keeps me busy enough!

    I saw Remi Harris a few years ago and he was so inspiring that I was tempted to get one of those Gitane guitars. I spoke to him and he said he was just playing one of the cheap basic models - he made it sound amazing. But eventually I realised I wouldn’t really play it enough to justify it.
    If you will get Gitane you have to play Gypsy Jazz...
    I was interested more in that syle few years ago...I played with French violinist who got violin from S.Grappelli.

  8. #57

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    Straying off topic, but I do think the Django style guitars are more versatile than people think, particularly the D hole models...

    But back on topic, I'll even start it if people would play along-- a JAZZ standards thread. Benny Golson tunes, Monk tunes, Shorter tunes, that kind of stuff. Music written by jazz musicians.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Straying off topic, but I do think the Django style guitars are more versatile than people think, particularly the D hole models...

    But back on topic, I'll even start it if people would play along-- a JAZZ standards thread. Benny Golson tunes, Monk tunes, Shorter tunes, that kind of stuff. Music written by jazz musicians.
    I'll play along (or at least try). I could definitely use the workout on this area of repertoire. Might even use my D-hole guitar on some of it.

    John

  10. #59

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    LOL now you did MrB.... Your on, I'll gladly play along...

  11. #60

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    I met Birelli Lagrene about 25 years ago ...he play everything in every style.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    LOL now you did MrB.... Your on, I'll gladly play along...
    Well, if people are truly interested, maybe send me a PM...

    I'd run it completely differently than the Practical Standards. I don't want to compete with that thread, which is about going deep with a tune for a month. That's really valuable.

    This would be all about improvisation. We'd rattle off tunes at a much quicker pace, people would be sometimes playing stuff they weren't super familiar with--like an actual jam session. It wouldn't be about playing the melody (though of course it's good to know!) or coming up with an arrangement-- it'd be about improvising on a tune, with a track, drumgenius, metronome, or just acapella. Finished polished products unimportant. We could discuss form, how to internalize tunes quickly, etc.

    What do you all think?

  13. #62

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    Okay. But at how quickly a rate? Is 'rattling things off' good for learning?

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Okay. But at how quickly a rate? Is 'rattling things off' good for learning?
    weekly, biweekly?

    Being able to internalize a tune quickly is a skill. Nothing says you can't go back and go deeper.

  15. #64

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    If it's the kind of thing that could be done solo or chord-melody, then I'm in. I expect I would prefer these songs to the other standards group.

    My new years goal is to focus on solo playing, but I don't want to be stuck solely to an arrangement.

    The challenge of improvising new tunes would be great...though my performance won't be.

    And I know I've said it before, but I will post this time. Lawson's posts and progress have been an inspiration.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    Ok...I do not know what we exactly talking about.
    All tunes in the world can be turned into gypsy jazz. It’s SCIENCE.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    weekly, biweekly?

    Being able to internalize a tune quickly is a skill. Nothing says you can't go back and go deeper.
    Going back's cheating :-)

    Maybe weekly, but even that might be too quick for some people, especially chord melody players.

    (But I think the idea of different kinds of tunes is excellent).

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Going back's cheating :-)

    Maybe weekly, but even that might be too quick for some people, especially chord melody players.

    (But I think the idea of different kinds of tunes is excellent).
    But again, this would really just be about improvisation, not working out a chord melody...so I think the added pressure of having only a limited time to try out a tune could inspire people to take some chances...that is, if they'll play along.

    It could be completely possible that we have waaaay too much going on in the first place.

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Going back's cheating :-)

    Maybe weekly, but even that might be too quick for some people, especially chord melody players.

    (But I think the idea of different kinds of tunes is excellent).
    Actually those of us who like chord-melody solo playing will struggle on these jazz originals. You can find examples, like Joe Pass plays "Joy Spring" solo on I think Virtuoso -2, and Giant Steps. But the very fact that he does it kind of underscores that it's a huge challenge, especially to play them at a decent tempo.

    Not saying it can't be done, but my own interest in these is simply to learn more of these jazz originals because when I play with others, they are likely to get called and I want to be able to handle them in an ensemble. Perhaps a fast pace will be good, covering more tunes, but I think it will be a challenge for the solo players to play these in rapid succession.

  20. #69

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    By the way there’s quite a nice list of post-1950 standards here:

    List of post-1950 jazz standards - Wikipedia

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    By the way there’s quite a nice list of post-1950 standards here:

    List of post-1950 jazz standards - Wikipedia
    This is a great list.

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    By the way there’s quite a nice list of post-1950 standards here:

    List of post-1950 jazz standards - Wikipedia
    Grahambop +1
    Great list

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone

    Not saying it can't be done, but my own interest in these is simply to learn more of these jazz originals because when I play with others, they are likely to get called and I want to be able to handle them in an ensemble. Perhaps a fast pace will be good, covering more tunes, but I think it will be a challenge for the solo players to play these in rapid succession.
    I think if we just treated it like a jam session, then that wouldn't be a problem. I think it'd be great to have a thread that went through tunes much like "Jam of the Week" does on Facebook, but maybe with some more shop talk and analysis thrown in.

    So literally "Here's the tune" and everybody participating takes one or two choruses.

    It's not a deep dive into a tune like the Practical Standards, it's more of a test of instincts. I would say "don't play the melody," even (not that you shouldn't know it, but keep it short)

  24. #73

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    That list is great! Wish I could just copy and paste that into a playlist.

  25. #74

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    I still think a tune's just a tune.

  26. #75

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    Yea I'm in.

    At some point most jazz musicians need to learn how to just play jazz tunes. If you start.... within 6 months, you'll actually be able play a chart thrown in front of you.... a few seconds to get the road map, or if a verbal head arrangement is called out by someone.. your ready, count it off.

    Play a solo head arrangement and then go into some type of solo section. Again the point is you'll actually learn how to play in a jazz styles...

    I think when we got the practical standards thread going.... I was hoping it would go in this direction.

    Yea.. Mr B... I don't do the facebook thing. I'll help in any way you want me to.

    Tune a week and if that too much for some... just pick one and do the best you can.

    Rag... yes learning tunes quickly and eventually ....being able to perform a tune live the first time is what jazz players do. It's how you need to go about it. You'll learn that ... yes a tune is just a tune... but you'll begin to have plug and play options of how to perform tunes, lots of options, to the point that a single tune can become 10 different tunes off the top of your head.... with out rehearsing.

    Yes not required but sure helps keep music fresh and FUN...

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I think if we just treated it like a jam session, then that wouldn't be a problem. I think it'd be great to have a thread that went through tunes much like "Jam of the Week" does on Facebook, but maybe with some more shop talk and analysis thrown in.

    So literally "Here's the tune" and everybody participating takes one or two choruses.

    It's not a deep dive into a tune like the Practical Standards, it's more of a test of instincts. I would say "don't play the melody," even (not that you shouldn't know it, but keep it short)
    I like it!

    John

  28. #77

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    Alright. Let's do this. I'll get some stuff together over the next few days.

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    being able to perform a tune live the first time is what jazz players do. It's how you need to go about it.
    Sure, but I don't think we should overmix what we do on a forum like this, which includes a lot of beginners and intermediate players, with the mentality and processes of professional gigging musicians. The one really is not the other, the two levels are entirely different.

    I doubt a professional-level jazz musician such as you describe would join in with this sort of forum except in the Showcase section. Very few people here could just immediately launch into a whole list of jazz tunes in any key, any style, and all that sort of stuff.

  30. #79

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    Hey Rag,

    I disagree... It's OK to not jump in on everything all at once. But when one has an idea of what something is, it usually helps get better results.

    I don't think the original Practical standards thread is going to change, the same few players can still post and comment. It's still a cool thread, but if some want to learn how to play Jazz tunes in Jazz styles as compared to learning how to play pop tunes in jazz styles..... a new thread might help develop the skills of playing in a Jazz style etc...

    It's not really an either or, maybe just more choices. And if the thread gets.... more accomplished jazz players,( I'm just one of many avg. players), involved with playing examples... I can't see how this would hurt, I really believe getting more players such as myself, who can play as well as explain what we're playing etc...would help.

  31. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    All tunes in the world can be turned into gypsy jazz. It’s SCIENCE.
    All tunes in the world can be turned into JAZZ.

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Very few people here could just immediately launch into a whole list of jazz tunes in any key, any style, and all that sort of stuff.
    I think you might be surprised. I can do it (Well, not every tune every key, my head would explode), and I'm no pro. I think there's lots of others here too.

    But I think the benefit would really be for those who HAVEN'T done it. Jump in and get your feet wet in a safe environment kind of way.

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I think you might be surprised. I can do it (Well, not every tune every key, my head would explode), and I'm no pro. I think there's lots of others here too.

    But I think the benefit would really be for those who HAVEN'T done it. Jump in and get your feet wet in a safe environment kind of way.
    I'm wiling to give it a try. I might not be able to keep up with a tune a week, but hey I can just go every other week. Still means I get introduced to a lot of tunes.

    My own focus on the OP was on a certain kind of tune, not just something written since 1950. I was thinking of the contrafacts, the compositions, that really never made it to airtime, as it were. Everything from Oleo to Four-On-Six, Confirmation to Grooveyard, the tunes composed by jazz players that most jazz players enjoy jamming to but which are not always crowd-pleasers.

    Sounds like you have that idea, so I'm happy. Also, I just launched the question, how it gets answered is a story yet to be told.

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Hey Rag,

    I disagree... It's OK to not jump in on everything all at once. But when one has an idea of what something is, it usually helps get better results.

    I don't think the original Practical standards thread is going to change, the same few players can still post and comment. It's still a cool thread, but if some want to learn how to play Jazz tunes in Jazz styles as compared to learning how to play pop tunes in jazz styles..... a new thread might help develop the skills of playing in a Jazz style etc...

    It's not really an either or, maybe just more choices. And if the thread gets.... more accomplished jazz players,( I'm just one of many avg. players), involved with playing examples... I can't see how this would hurt, I really believe getting more players such as myself, who can play as well as explain what we're playing etc...would help.
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I think you might be surprised. I can do it (Well, not every tune every key, my head would explode), and I'm no pro. I think there's lots of others here too.

    But I think the benefit would really be for those who HAVEN'T done it. Jump in and get your feet wet in a safe environment kind of way.
    Well, nothing ventured...

    I'll just do my thing and see how it all progresses :-)

  35. #84

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    Alright, I started the virtual jam with a pretty approachable tune, Benny Golson's "Whisper Not."

    Lets hear ya all. Nothing to be afraid of, ill be the bouncer, and I'll be a real asshole to anybody who's a jerk.

  36. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Alright, I started the virtual jam with a pretty approachable tune, Benny Golson's "Whisper Not."

    Lets hear ya all. Nothing to be afraid of, ill be the bouncer, and I'll be a real asshole to anybody who's a jerk.
    Is there a thread for that somewhere, or should we just post to this thread here?

    John

  37. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Is there a thread for that somewhere, or should we just post to this thread here?

    John
    There’s a thread for it in the ‘Improvisation’ section.

  38. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Is there a thread for that somewhere, or should we just post to this thread here?

    John
    Jgbe virtual jam, round 1