January 2021 - More Than You Know

[M-ster]

Oh, no ... late! My apologies, jazz people!

Our standard for Jan 2021 will be More Than You Know (Vincent Youmans, Edward Eliscu, Billy Rose, 1929).

Background:
Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals (More Than You Know)

[ragman1]

I've done this so let's get it over with!

[Ovader]

I've done this so let's get it over with!

I immediately thought of Nino Rota's theme for Fellini's LA DOLCE VITA when I heard your version.

[kris]

I prefer more jazz feel version with great intro:

[EarlBrother]

[EarlBrother]

the late Joe Beck on guitar at about 2:40 i think.sorry 2:55

[kris]

Nice feel...Joe Beck's guitar bendings are from the heart.
Best
Kris

[kris]

Nino Rota's theme for Fellini's LA DOLCE VITA-look at first 56 s...

[ragman1]

Ovader -

I immediately thought of Nino Rota's theme for Fellini's LA DOLCE VITA when I heard your version.

I see your point, there is some similarity between the two tunes. It goes da-da-da a couple of times, like MTYK, and moves into the sub-dominant and back. Beyond that I'm not sure, though.

Nino Rota's name has come up before allied to plagiarism although apparently he was plagiarizing himself rather than others.

"In 1972 he was nominated for an Oscar for his score for The Godfather; however, someone unjustly accused him of plagiarism. He protested this accusation and the charges were dropped because the music from which the theme song had been derived was a song he had written in 1946."

Nino Rota | Encyclopedia.com

[Spook410]

the late Joe Beck on guitar at about 2:40 i think.sorry 2:55

Great tone

[lawson-stone]

This makes me wish I was a better singer.

[lawson-stone]

Anyone else finding it hard to avoid slipping into "Tenderly" with this?

[lawson-stone]

So here's my first shot at a clip, just the head and a snippet of improv before the wheels fell off.

I do not deserve this L5ces.

[ragman1]

Lovely chords, Lawson. Did you work those out? Really nice. It was like Christmas again!

[Peterson]

I can’t remember having heard this song before. Lovely tune! Not very common on Spotify it seems.

Anyway... here’s me playing chord melody and singing. It helps me memorise a tune.

[alpop]

I am enjoying everyone's versions.

Ragman: Great mood and improv. Do you have a list of the tunes in advance? You got that out so quick!
Lawson: Wonderful tone and execution on all those chords.
Peterson: I like your organic approach!

Here is my take on the song. I decided on a bit of a quicker tempo after listening to the Billie Holiday version.
I'm not that pleased with my execution, but I wanted to join the party, so here it is. I will try and put out another version with a chorus of improv as well if I am able to before the end of the month.

Alan

[lawson-stone]

Lovely chords, Lawson. Did you work those out? Really nice. It was like Christmas again!

Thank you, and yes, i worked out the chord-melody myself. It's not actually an "arrangement." I worked out several ways to handle the different phrases and then tried to be a bit spontaneous which I used in the clip. Like having "talking points" but not a real speech. That's why you'll see I hesitate or slip on a few phrases. Cost of doing business in this genre.

The bridge needs more attention. I love the melody and it just sounds beautiful played on an archtop with a warm amp. This could really be Johnny Smith country.

[lawson-stone]

I am enjoying everyone's versions.

Ragman: Great mood and improv. Do you have a list of the tunes in advance? You got that out so quick!
Lawson: Wonderful tone and execution on all those chords.
Peterson: I like your organic approach!

Here is my take on the song. I decided on a bit of a quicker tempo after listening to the Billie Holiday version.
I'm not that pleased with my execution, but I wanted to join the party, so here it is. I will try and put out another version with a chorus of improv as well if I am able to before the end of the month.

Alan

Really nice! I enjoyed the tone and the style you put it in.

[ragman1]

Thank you, and yes, i worked out the chord-melody myself. It's not actually an "arrangement." I worked out several ways to handle the different phrases and then tried to be a bit spontaneous which I used in the clip. Like having "talking points" but not a real speech. That's why you'll see I hesitate or slip on a few phrases. Cost of doing business in this genre.

The bridge needs more attention. I love the melody and it just sounds beautiful played on an archtop with a warm amp. This could really be Johnny Smith country.

It was terrific. Always knew you had it in you :-)

[ragman1]

Do you have a list of the tunes in advance? You got that out so quick!

Both. There is a list but it didn't take long to do. But thanks for the appreciation. Didn't you want to try an improv on yours?

[alpop]

Both. There is a list but it didn't take long to do. But thanks for the appreciation. Didn't you want to try an improv on yours?

That take was a trial run sound check with a different guitar and mic setup, so I only did one pass. I wanted to participate so I sent it in. I will do another one with an improv, but my improvs are prone to train wrecks, so it may take me several attempts to get one that isn't too painful to ask others to listen to.

[lawson-stone]

Here is another clip from yesterday, almost identical but I'm using a different amplifier and recording arrangement. Curious about which actually sounds better, or if they are just different. If you have a chance to listen to both and share an impression, I'm grateful.

[ragman1]

The first one is smoother, at least on the videos I'm watching here.

[alpop]

The first one is smoother, at least on the videos I'm watching here.

I agree. The first one sounds better on my speakers.

[kris]

Here is another clip from yesterday, almost identical but I'm using a different amplifier and recording arrangement. Curious about which actually sounds better, or if they are just different. If you have a chance to listen to both and share an impression, I'm grateful.

This version is better than first one.Better sounding guitar and more compacibile to the bacing track.
The sound of the guitar is exelent in take 2.
Best
Kris

[Vladan]

Here is another clip from yesterday, almost identical but I'm using a different amplifier and recording arrangement. Curious about which actually sounds better, or if they are just different. If you have a chance to listen to both and share an impression, I'm grateful.

This one, the 2nd one, is much better, because there is more sense of grove.

[John A.]

Here is another clip from yesterday, almost identical but I'm using a different amplifier and recording arrangement. Curious about which actually sounds better, or if they are just different. If you have a chance to listen to both and share an impression, I'm grateful.

I think the second does a better job of having the guitar stand out and present your efforts to show work in progress on the tune. If you mean as a mixed/produced final sound intended to sound like a real recording, I don't think either is quite there, and it would be difficult to say one is better than the other. The first one strikes me as a bit too boomy, especially when a low note on the guitar doubles a note in the bass when you play a low note on the guitar that doubles and/or reinforces a bass note. The guitar on the second strikes me as somewhat too bright (maybe overcompensation for the boominess?). Both strike me as somewhat lacking in mids (the second more than the first), and to my tastes both could use more reverb on the guitar (but that's my taste in guitar sounds). The backing track levels are better balanced with the guitar on the second. I'm listening with earbuds that exaggerate lows a bit, though, so take that it into account (or disregard) accordingly. Hope that helps.

John

[KirkP]

I uploaded this years ago probably intending to clean it up and repost. Maybe I finally will. I like the general feel, but there obvious a lot that is clumsy about it. I love the tune though.

[ragman1]

The bridge is tricky on this one. I had to think about the phrasing. But easier for me, harder for chord melody-ists.

[Peterson]

Here’s my solution to the bridge so far:

[KirkP]

Here’s my solution to the bridge so far:

Looks like that those finger mechanics would work. Seems like you might want to simplify a little around the 11 second point when you pick up the tempo, but you’ll figure that out.

[alpop]

Here is one chorus of soloing. I didn't feel the need to play the melody again for these purposes. I think it's better to keep it short if I'm asking people to listen to my hobbyist efforts.
I must say that playing to tracks is a challenge. Not being able to interact with a live drummer makes playing fresh ideas more difficult.
I guess that's it for this month, I will be back for the next tune..........

[hohoho]

Here is one chorus of soloing. I didn't feel the need to play the melody again for these purposes. I think it's better to keep it short if I'm asking people to listen to my hobbyist efforts.
I must say that playing to tracks is a challenge. Not being able to interact with a live drummer makes playing fresh ideas more difficult.
I guess that's it for this month, I will be back for the next tune..........

I like this very much! Melodic, space, repeated and transposed phrases.
Inspiring! Thank you alpop!

[alpop]

I like this very much! Melodic, space, repeated and transposed phrases.
Inspiring! Thank you alpop!

Thanks for the encouraging words! My technical limitations are kind of driving the bus, so I am using other devices to try to keep it musically interesting.

If you have the recording gear, why don't you contribute some of your own playing to the thread? The more the merrier!

Alan

[hohoho]

Thanks for the encouraging words! My technical limitations are kind of driving the bus, so I am using other devices to try to keep it musically interesting.

If you have the recording gear, why don't you contribute some of your own playing to the thread? The more the merrier!

Alan

Hmm... maybe super technique can be a limitation?

I usually post in the end of the month, but since you asked and I do record improvs almost every day already.
Two improvised choruses, sorry about that.

Ragman: no backing this time , maybe later

[alpop]

[QUOTE=hohoho;1090949]Hmm... maybe super technique can be a limitation?

I usually post in the end of the month, but since you asked and I do record improvs almost every day already.
Two improvised choruses, sorry about that.



Nicely done! Sorry, I am new to participating to this thread so I didn't know that you posted your playing. I hope I didn't rush you. No worries about doing two choruses, I may try that myself next time. Keep up the good work! Improvising on these tunes is like working on a fascinating puzzle, and I find it very interesting to hear everyone's approach.

I'm not sure about the ability to play fast being a limitation though. I'd sure love to be able to pop in some 16th note runs every once in a while!

[ragman1]

I'll not desert this thread or these tunes. This one is worthy of no less respect than Whisper Not, or any other. They're the same in my view, completely.

So here is a work of art, just done this morning. Take one, and the outcome of literally years of sweat and tears. That's the way it is, and as it should be.

[christianm77]

This is a really nice song. I’ll
record a version if I get a chance.

[kris]

I'll not desert this thread or these tunes. This one is worthy of no less respect than Whisper Not, or any other. They're the same in my view, completely.

So here is a work of art, just done this morning. Take one, and the outcome of literally years of sweat and tears. That's the way it is, and as it should be.

It is very similar to your first take.

[lawson-stone]

I haven't deserted either. I've been working on the melody, especially since I wasn't familiar with the tune at all. I also hope to up the tempo a bit and do another more competent take than the first one. I plan to get that done this week or early next.

[mr. beaumont]

I really hope people don't see the "jam session" thread as taking away from the practical standards...that was not my intention at all.

[lawson-stone]

I really hope people don't see the "jam session" thread as taking away from the practical standards...that was not my intention at all.

I don't see why anyone should see it that way at all. There has only been one comment that implied that, but otherwise I imagine people who like to try to play things and post on the forum will now enjoy having two places to do that. When I originally proposed a "practical jazz originals" group, I certainly did not entertain any competition with the venerable Practical Standards group. I just noticed that often through the month we would slow down a bit, and I thought maybe a parallel project could be fun.

You ran with the idea and gave us a really fun place to work on that other part of the jazz repertoire, and I think the quicker format is going to be interesting as well.

Thanks for taking this on!

[ragman1]

I really hope people don't see the "jam session" thread as taking away from the practical standards...that was not my intention at all.

I see it as more tunes to do. Can only be good :-)

(A month for one tune is quite long)

[kris]

I see it as more tunes to do. Can only be good :-)

(A month for one tune is quite long)

One month for one tune is nothing.
You have to practise jazz tunes all life.

[lawson-stone]

I see it as more tunes to do. Can only be good :-)

(A month for one tune is quite long)

That really depends on your level of playing and how much discretionary time you have. For middling player like myself, with a full time job and other obligations, who only has at best an hour a day to focus on learning new stuff, a month is a decent amount of time to get the basics of a tune in hand. Melody, comping, a basic chord-melody of the head, a chorus or two of soloing... I need about a month to work through that because of where I am as a player and where music fits into my life.

The more advanced players who think that's too long maybe should think more of trying to demonstrate all the amazing, unusual, alternative, mind-blowing ideas one could bring to the tune.

[ragman1]

Lawson -

I think there's no doubt that for chord melody players, aside from those who have other responsibilities, it takes time to get there properly.

For myself, once I've done it a few times I reckon I've got it. Enough, anyway. After that, it all becomes a bit spurious and what one thinks is 'different' isn't really, it's more a search for the novel and becomes a bit unnecessary.

[lawson-stone]

Lawson -

I think there's no doubt that for chord melody players, aside from those who have other responsibilities, it takes time to get there properly.

For myself, once I've done it a few times I reckon I've got it. Enough, anyway. After that, it all becomes a bit spurious and what one thinks is 'different' isn't really, it's more a search for the novel and becomes a bit unnecessary.

"Novel" isn't a bad thing. Taking extra time with a familiar tune to find something fresh, scary, unexpected, but compelling and even beautiful is a wonderful thing. Not everyone is up to drilling down that deep, and the risk is enormous that what results will be a train wreck. Still, I wish I had the chops to push past the usual improvisational and arrangement ideas and expose a deeper dimension of these classic tunes. Alas, what I do is all I'm capable of at the moment.

[ragman1]

By novel I mean, basically, getting weird or strange just for the sake of it, or trying to be clever and ending up pretentious. I've fallen into that one myself and quickly threw them away!

It is possible to find something genuinely different and interesting to do with a tune but it takes a lot of skill, experience and musical sense. Can't say I've mastered that yet but I'm very impressed when others do it.

[grahambop]

Oddly enough when I pick up the guitar and just start improvising at random I always tend to play the same few tunes. Quite often it’s Stella or All the things for example. It always seems possible to come up with a new idea or two if I bash away long enough, I treat it as a sort of improv workout. I think those ideas then transfer subconsciously to other tunes as well.

Bill Evans used to play the same tunes a lot, he could obviously keep getting fresh ideas from them.

[ragman1]

Just before this ends, I thought of reducing the tune to its bare essentials. The progression is really just:

C - % - F - %
G7 - % - C - G7 (B7)

Em - B7 - Em - D7
G - % - D7 - G7

That's what I played, no subs. It doesn't always work but it did with this one.