The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Thank you, Mr. B – that means a lot to me.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Finger mechanics are still holding me back from the creative/expressive interpretation I'd like, but it's getting a little more fluid.

  4. #28

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    My last shot at this song before moving on. I will say ... whatever the quality of my playing, the L5ces and Princeton Reverb Reissue sounded so nice while I was making this. Sometimes you just try not to spoil the loveliness of the guitar itself!


  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    My last shot at this song before moving on. I will say ... whatever the quality of my playing, the L5ces and Princeton Reverb Reissue sounded so nice while I was making this. Sometimes you just try not to spoil the loveliness of the guitar itself!

    That sounds pretty good. The head is really good, and that thing you do in the second half of the bridge with enclosures works really well. By and large, the solo has a shape to it, and you develop your ideas, so yeah, it's a solo. And it's nice to see you and Elwood are putting the band back together.

    John

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    That sounds pretty good. The head is really good, and that thing you do in the second half of the bridge with enclosures works really well. By and large, the solo has a shape to it, and you develop your ideas, so yeah, it's a solo. And it's nice to see you and Elwood are putting the band back together.

    John
    Thanks for the feedback. I know the solo is not exactly history-making, but I'm trying at least to make the changes and have a few ideas going. Hopefully "never quitting" is a good strategy!

  7. #31

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    Darn that Dream is a tough one to solo on! Lots of changes, and if you try hitting every one...it sounds like it.

  8. #32

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    Sounding nice! Keep up the good work.

  9. #33

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    I kept thinking I wanted to try a solo guitar treatment of this tune, so here it is. Couldn't do finger style because I ripped out the nail on my middle finger! This is the Gibson L5ces played through the Polytone Minibrute II. I've mic'd the speaker with a Shure SM57 in one channel and brought the preamp direct line into the other channel, just for fun. I'm pretty happy with how I play the tune, but not so much with the effort at improvising. Plus I found the recent changes in weather had wrought a need for adjustment that I discovered only when recording this clip!


  10. #34

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    Lawson -

    May I say something? This is genuine comment, it's not supposed to be critical or in any way negative, quite the contrary.

    That's one of the best arrangements I've seen you do. It's excellent, good chords, not too many redundant lines or sounds, etc. It's a pleasure to watch you.

    BUT there's no feeling in it. It's as though you're playing it like a chore, like you're saying to yourself 'Oh, god, here we go again, I'll just churn it out'. And out it comes.

    Take a breath and perform it, express some sentiment in it, play it like you meant it. If you did that it would be worthy of the Showcase thread. Really. Honest.

    Okay? You don't mind? Good :-)

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Lawson -

    May I say something? This is genuine comment, it's not supposed to be critical or in any way negative, quite the contrary.

    That's one of the best arrangements I've seen you do. It's excellent, good chords, not too many redundant lines or sounds, etc. It's a pleasure to watch you.

    BUT there's no feeling in it. It's as though you're playing it like a chore, like you're saying to yourself 'Oh, god, here we go again, I'll just churn it out'. And out it comes.

    Take a breath and perform it, express some sentiment in it, play it like you meant it. If you did that it would be worthy of the Showcase thread. Really. Honest.

    Okay? You don't mind? Good :-)
    I don't mind your comment at all. I honestly don't know what you mean though. I love this song, I love playing it, I didn't rehearse or do lots of takes. I'd been playing it all day, really enjoying it, and decided to capture it. I liked it enough to post. I am not someone who "emotes" when i play. I don't make hot-faces, grimace, faux-dance, or whatever. So I'm not offended by your remark, but I do think you simply are asking me to be someone I'm not. Just because someone doesn't put on an emotional show doesn't mean they "don't mean it." I didn't phone this in at all. Much of it is more or less spontaneous. I have developed several approaches to different parts of the tune, but when I played it I hadn't really decided which I wanted to use.

    But the overwhelming impression I have from your comments is positive, and I'm grateful for your feedback.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I don't mind your comment at all. I honestly don't know what you mean though. I love this song, I love playing it, I didn't rehearse or do lots of takes. I'd been playing it all day, really enjoying it, and decided to capture it. I liked it enough to post. I am not someone who "emotes" when i play. I don't make hot-faces, grimace, faux-dance, or whatever. So I'm not offended by your remark, but I do think you simply are asking me to be someone I'm not. Just because someone doesn't put on an emotional show doesn't mean they "don't mean it." I didn't phone this in at all. Much of it is more or less spontaneous. I have developed several approaches to different parts of the tune, but when I played it I hadn't really decided which I wanted to use.

    But the overwhelming impression I have from your comments is positive, and I'm grateful for your feedback.
    Dear lawson-stone,
    Do not worry be happy.
    I think - ragman is not a jazz expert...
    The sound of your guitar /L5/ is great!
    Jazzingly
    kris
    ps.
    Happy New Year 2021

  13. #37

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    Lawson, I thought that was very good.

    To satisfy the critics, you could always do some work on your guitar-face technique.

    November 2020 - Darn That Dream-8d67bf5d-a6b8-480c-a543-2c57f329f09f-jpeg

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I kept thinking I wanted to try a solo guitar treatment of this tune, so here it is. Couldn't do finger style because I ripped out the nail on my middle finger! This is the Gibson L5ces played through the Polytone Minibrute II. I've mic'd the speaker with a Shure SM57 in one channel and brought the preamp direct line into the other channel, just for fun. I'm pretty happy with how I play the tune, but not so much with the effort at improvising. Plus I found the recent changes in weather had wrought a need for adjustment that I discovered only when recording this clip!

    Nice job!

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I am not someone who "emotes" when i play. I don't make hot-faces, grimace, faux-dance, or whatever. So I'm not offended by your remark, but I do think you simply are asking me to be someone I'm not..
    By feeling, I don't mean emoting. All that agonised grimacing and pained expression stuff, couldn't agree more, dreadful, like they urgently need to visit the bathroom! No, I definitely don't mean that. Nor, of course, would I ever suggest to anyone to be something other than they are.

    I think I mean playing with the heart as well as the head. After all, it's really a song with lyrics. Well, originally anyway. If one's been playing it all day I expect there would be a sort of over-familiarity. I suffer from that myself, getting to the stage where I can chuck it out with abandon, but I usually find it comes out a bit sloppy on hearing it later. I'm not suggesting yours was sloppy, it wasn't, I'm just saying. There's a sort of fine line between feeling relaxed enough to do it without tension and getting so into it that it becomes a bit nonchalant.

    I meant what I said about it, though. I thought it flowed nicely and was pretty good. But I also thought 'What's this tune saying? What's it about?'. See, if you'd played it badly it wouldn't apply. Whoever it was wouldn't be ready for this kind of suggestion. But in this case I think the whole thing could be uplifted to another level, that's all. After all, mere technique is one thing and dynamic expression another.

    So I wouldn't want you to misunderstand me, it was all meant to helpful and add more to the mixture, that's all it was about. I'm sorry if it hit the wrong spot, nothing meant.

  16. #40
    Dutchbopper Guest
    Here's my take. I played it with a bit of a Tal vibe. He sometimes plays ballads in chord melody style almost devoid of emotion and romanticism. His "Misty" comes to mind. I like that approach a lot.

    The end lick is quartal harmony ... The arrangement is my own.

    Last edited by Dutchbopper; 12-31-2020 at 03:31 PM.

  17. #41
    Dutchbopper Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    See, if you'd played it badly it wouldn't apply. Whoever it was wouldn't be ready for this kind of suggestion. But in this case I think the whole thing could be uplifted to another level, that's all. After all, mere technique is one thing and dynamic expression another.
    Sometimes the lyrics of a standard are so corny and dated that I can not even take the feeling it is supposed to convey seriously. "Misty" comes to mind ...Glad I am not a singer.

    DB

  18. #42

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    We live in a different time... when tenderer emotions are harder to come by uncynically.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    By feeling, I don't mean emoting. All that agonised grimacing and pained expression stuff, couldn't agree more, dreadful, like they urgently need to visit the bathroom! No, I definitely don't mean that. Nor, of course, would I ever suggest to anyone to be something other than they are.

    I think I mean playing with the heart as well as the head. After all, it's really a song with lyrics. Well, originally anyway. If one's been playing it all day I expect there would be a sort of over-familiarity. I suffer from that myself, getting to the stage where I can chuck it out with abandon, but I usually find it comes out a bit sloppy on hearing it later. I'm not suggesting yours was sloppy, it wasn't, I'm just saying. There's a sort of fine line between feeling relaxed enough to do it without tension and getting so into it that it becomes a bit nonchalant.

    I meant what I said about it, though. I thought it flowed nicely and was pretty good. But I also thought 'What's this tune saying? What's it about?'. See, if you'd played it badly it wouldn't apply. Whoever it was wouldn't be ready for this kind of suggestion. But in this case I think the whole thing could be uplifted to another level, that's all. After all, mere technique is one thing and dynamic expression another.

    So I wouldn't want you to misunderstand me, it was all meant to helpful and add more to the mixture, that's all it was about. I'm sorry if it hit the wrong spot, nothing meant.
    I am not trying to be stubborn, but I'm getting a little irritated that you think you know what was going on in my head and heart. You think I don't know what the tune was "saying." You're presuming to read my mind. I wasn't tired of the tune, I was feeling quite comfortable with it, even thought I'd found a sweet spot in not having to think of every change.

    I know you intend to be helpful. But this is also precisely the kind of critique that I think is off base, whoever it's aimed at. We do not know what's in someone's heart and mind. We do not know how they feel about the tune or what it's "saying" (if a tune can "say" anything?). Everyone has different mannerisms, different posture, different expressions. None of it tells you what's in their heart and you can't know that. To just say "You aren't feeling it" when it's live and you are physically with the musician, that's meaningful. But watching a clip, I just don't think we can do that.

    I hate to sound defensive, but your claim to know my intentions and feelings is just wrong. I imagine with greater mastery I can play this and adopt the kind of phrasing and manner that you'd consider "really performing" the tune, but even then, that could be just phoning it in as well.

    I respect your viewpoint and you're musical comments are often very helpful, but this line of conversation is unfruitful, in my opinion, unless people are actually in direct interaction and playing/listening together.

  20. #44

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    I think the whole question of ‘playing with feeling’ is very subjective, it’s very much down to the perception of the listener.

    I should imagine when Lawson was playing, he was primarily concerned with getting the right chords and notes out at the right place while keeping it all in time. I know that’s what I’d be concentrating on, especially when doing solo guitar improv, it’s very difficult to do well.

    Actually I think I read a quote by a famous classical musician once (can’t remember who), they said if you consciously try to ‘play with emotion’, it will probably sound like crap (or something along those lines).

  21. #45
    Dutchbopper Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I think the whole question of ‘playing with feeling’ is very subjective, it’s very much down to the perception of the listener..
    Good point. Bireli Lagrene? Pat Martino? All scales and technique, no emotion. Gimme Gary Moore or BB King for the real stuff!

    DB

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Here's my take. I played it with a bit of a Tal vibe. He sometimes plays ballads in chord melody style almost devoid of emotion and romanticism. His "Misty" comes to mind. I like that approach a lot.

    The end lick is quartal harmony ... The arrangement is my own.

    Sometimes a very unsentimental reading of a ballad can "re-strange" the music for us and make us hear it from different angles, different perspectives. Somewhere on here someone posted a clip of "Misty" played by Larry Carlton and Tal Farlow, and oddly, Tal played no lines at all, just chord-melody improvisation, and Carlton played an over-driven strat and it was all at a faster temp than you'd expect. I thought it worked really well. I enjoyed it. Did it "honor the words" or some such? Nope. But then "Misty" was played quite some time before someone wrote words for it. I liked that performance, and I like your "Darn that Dream." I like mine too, though it's very elementary, to be sure.

  23. #47
    Dutchbopper Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Sometimes a very unsentimental reading of a ballad can "re-strange" the music for us and make us hear it from different angles, different perspectives. Somewhere on here someone posted a clip of "Misty" played by Larry Carlton and Tal Farlow, and oddly, Tal played no lines at all, just chord-melody improvisation, and Carlton played an over-driven strat and it was all at a faster temp than you'd expect. I thought it worked really well. I enjoyed it. Did it "honor the words" or some such? Nope. But then "Misty" was played quite some time before someone wrote words for it. I liked that performance, and I like your "Darn that Dream." I like mine too, though it's very elementary, to be sure.
    Agreed Lawson.

    Listen to this completely unsentimental version of "Body and Soul." It is completely devoid of the original emotion if you ask me. Tal does that all the time. Wonderfully unemotional and highly intellectual!


  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Agreed Lawson.

    Listen to this completely unsentimental version of "Body and Soul." It is completely devoid of the original emotion if you ask me. Tal does that all the time. Wonderfully unemotional and highly intellectual!

    There is of course the passion of the mind, the response to ideas and insights that goes beyond mere sentimentality or "thinking about the lyrics." Tal drills down into the marrow of the music here. Some times it's certainly "not pretty" but then... parts of this song are not exactly pretty either!

  25. #49

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    I think we should be pretty clear on some things. No one's talking about tawdry emotion or sentimentality. The forum is awash with advice from various posters about going back to the original song when presented with a new or unfamiliar tune. The point is that the words give meaning to the tune, they give context to it. I see nothing wrong with that, do you? Of course, being jazz, one can then take the tune and do what one likes with it. We understand that.

    Then there's the difference between one's own personal, subjective emotions and feeling. By feeling I don't mean personal emotions. I mean feeling for the music, feeling for life, feeling for beauty, and so on. The two are as different as chalk and cheese.

    On the Tony Rice thread, a poster commented below one of Rice's recordings:

    Few people have the facility to play flawlessly at great speed AND with such feeling.
    If you think the reference to feeling means he plays like a sissy or something, I can't help you. It doesn't mean that at all.

    I'm sorry Lawson feels the the way he does. No one's trying to 'get inside his head' and all that stuff, certainly not me. I've no idea what he's thinking and feeling! How would I know? Nor does it interest me at all, none of my business. So I think we went to somewhere strange on that one.

    What I said to him about his playing was very complimentary. I liked what he did. Any comments, as I explained before, were meant to compliment and augment his performance. You must take that or leave it. I can't be responsible for anyone misinterpreting what I'm talking about, especially after it was already explained.

    Anyway, sorry if you're all having great objections to something. Like I said before, never my intention. And I think one should always play with feeling, don't you? Otherwise it's all bit arid. In my view, anyway.

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
    Agreed Lawson.

    Listen to this completely unsentimental version of "Body and Soul." It is completely devoid of the original emotion if you ask me. Tal does that all the time. Wonderfully unemotional and highly intellectual!

    Absolutely. I think there's great feeling there, a real understanding and depth to his playing. Will that do?