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  1. #1

    Video Improvising: Spanish Sound - Flamenco For B Movies

    Last edited by Andy Bartosh; 03-17-2019 at 04:38 PM.

  2. #2
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    great you want to sound like Tommy Tedesco faking flamenco 40 years ago in a bad movie!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz View Post
    great you want to sound like Tommy Tedesco faking flamenco 40 years ago in a bad movie!!

    really snarky...yet nevertheless funny

    bad! haha

    cheers

  4. #4
    Thank you for this note! Changed heading now....
    Well, a jazz guitar student in the first year asked about "flamenco sound". What would you have told him? just forget it?
    Last edited by Andy Bartosh; 03-14-2019 at 07:41 AM.

  5. #5
    As somebody who has studied and played flamenco guitar for over 30 years, I think you must be clear about what it is that you are trying to imitate when presenting a "flamenco" style to the listener.

    Much of the true flamenco guitar sound comes from the right-hand techniques that produce the rhythmic patterns, and this is probably the hardest thing for (say) a classical guitarist to learn.

    There is also much to understand about how 12-beat patterns are used in flamenco (eg Soleares, Alegrias, Bulerias and Seguiriyas), and that many flamenco styles use the Phrygian mode.

    Flamenco players also will often finger chords incorrectly, eg a first position F major chord will often only use the fingering for the lower 3 strings (F, C & F) and the higher 3 strings will be left unfingered (ie G, B and E) - this sounds discordant, but is more flamenco.

  6. #6
    so you tell me that i have to be clear about what it is that i am trying to imitate when presenting a flamenco style to the listener. then you talk about flamenco rhythm, you talk about studying flamenco for 30 years.


    i showed 3 chords E-F-G and 2 scales phrygian & harmonic minor and called it "flamenco style", its about playing around with different sounds. thats just fun.

    what´s the heck?

    do i need code word now for "flamenco" to step on nobodys shoes?

    P.S. for the jazz police call: 251, for the flamenco police call:?


  7. #7
    "Spanish" might be a suitable replacement.

    "Flamenco" can be a touchy word...the people who play it devote their whole life to it, really. So I think that's why you got some resistance on the original title.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  8. #8
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    Flamenco is an ancient art form. Teach what you like, Andy, but you're asking for criticism putting it up on this site. Your flamenco is as relevant as Kenny G's jazz.

  9. #9
    “What’s the heck” just about sums up this thread.

    I resent even calling it Spanish. This generic Yngwie noodling. Let’s please not attribute to this any cultural or ethnic affinity to flamenco or Spain. This is as good as a tutorial on “the bebop scale”. What you’re doing exposes your own disconnectedness from the tradition you are incorrectly claiming to represent.
    Last edited by omphalopsychos; 03-15-2019 at 11:01 AM.

  10. #10
    For the record, harmonic minor is not very common in flamenco. The common cadences are V-I in major palos such as Alegrias, Guajiras, Colombianas... Solea, Seguirías, Bulerías, and other “minor” tonality palos tend to use bII6 - I(7b9), typically with a biii as a sort of pre-dominant. Guess what, that’s also not exactly Phrygian.

  11. #11
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    How uptight we are all getting. There is a long history of pseudo flamenco in both classical and jazz - Flamenco Sketches, anyone? There is some wonderful, and some truly lamentable pseudo flamenco in the classical guitar world, but also on piano and for orchestra. For decades that stuff has been unchallenged, but now that flamenco is getting itself organised and systematised, suddenly there are experts everywhere. I hope the wider world never discovers piobaireachd...

  12. #12
    For the few maybe frustrated people here: go for a walk, relax, take it easy. Nobody wants to harm you. Nice weekend everybody!
    Last edited by Andy Bartosh; 03-15-2019 at 05:05 PM.

  13. #13
    This is my fav interpretation in 'Pseudo' flamenco style. If you're going to fake something, at least do it in STYLE!


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Bartosh View Post
    so you tell me that i have to be clear about what it is that i am trying to imitate when presenting a flamenco style to the listener. then you talk about flamenco rhythm, you talk about studying flamenco for 30 years.
    Sorry Andy, I never intended to discredit you or anything like that.

    I know from my own experience that "flamenco" was presented in various ways in the past, and it was usually unclear what the music meant in terms of technique, rhythm, harmony, etc - and then there were people who came on TV and sang or danced in a certain style and presented this as flamenco, when clearly it was more of a parody. But in the past few people had seen "real" flamenco, and so in a movie or TV program the main idea might have been to suggest an atmosphere like an imitation of a Spanish gypsy scene.

    We, as guitarists, don't need to guess any longer, because there are plenty of videos on YouTube and many books and courses available to get the information about what flamenco should sound like, and how it is played on the guitar.

    There is nothing wrong with your video, and it is possible to produce something that sounds Spanish, Greek or Chinese just by playing the right scales in a way that gives the illusion of that sort of music. I get what you were trying to do.

  15. #15
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    kudos to andy b...who handled a (no doubt) well intentioned thread gone wrong, with humour & aplomb

    well done

    cheers



  16. #16

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