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  1. #1
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    November 2018 - Sweet Lorraine

    Our standard for Nov 2018 will be Sweet Lorraine (Clifford Burwell/Mitchell Parish, 1928).

    Background:
    Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals (Sweet Lorraine)

  2. #2
    Whoopee :-)

  3. #3
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    November 2018 - Sweet Lorraine-proxy-duckduckgo-3-jpg

    #jazzjokes
    #theoldonesaretheoldest

  4. #4
    La Reine Kitsch

    November 2018 - Sweet Lorraine-reine-solaire-bleue-solar-queen-derby-edition-kikkerland-jpg

  5. #5
    Yes, well, these chords are a bit of thing, aren't they? This tune's probably just a 4-chord trick but he's reharmed it, or just harmed it, out of existence. The melody's one of the most basic things I've seen too. Anyway, I tried the easy, laid-back style which I really like (a la the Count Basie and Oscar Peterson version) but done by me it d-r-a-g-s.

    So I've thrown caution to the winds. Heh heh :-)


  6. #6
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    Not an easy tune to solo on it has to be said lol.

  7. #7
    Yup, that's my story and I'm sticking to it :-)

  8. #8
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    How I love my quiche Lorraine ...


  9. #9
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    Ellis & Branford Marsalis

    Very nice take:

  10. #10
    The only version I’m familiar with is the classic one by Nat King Cole. Also features a short guitar solo by John Collins.


  11. #11
    Yes, it's funny, this tune. It was written by a producer, I think, rather than a player/composer. It should be a happy tune, given the lyrics, but I think all those tritones give it a rather sad, dreary feel. The trumpet was doing all right but I think John Collins was having some trouble with it.

    Still, as we're posting YouTubes at the moment (!) I do like this one. Basie and Oscar give it a lovely bluesy feel. It might lose a bit of impetus towards the end though; it is quite long :-)


  12. #12
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  13. #13

    November 2018 - Sweet Lorraine

    Most charts I’ve found for this tune over-specify the chords with extensions, subs and turnarounds that I feel should be decided by the player (or arranger). I created this vanilla-ish chart that I’m using as a starting point. If I haven’t yet decided whether I want to play a chord as a maj6, maj7, or dom7 I’ll just name the triad. I’m experimenting with various extensions, subs and turnarounds as I play it. I’m posting in in case it’s useful to anyone else or if anyone wants to comment on it.

    At this point I’m resisting the temptation to turn everything possible into cycles of fifths. For example, the 2nd bar of the bridge could be played as
    | A-7 D7 G7 C7 |
    which makes a tidy cycle of fifths. But I like the open feel of fewer chords, especially when learning.
    Last edited by KirkP; 11-03-2018 at 03:04 PM.

  14. #14
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    As a word of warning - many people play it in F

  15. #15

    November 2018 - Sweet Lorraine

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    As a word of warning - many people play it in F
    Easy peasy with iRealPro. November 2018 - Sweet Lorraine

    I’ll probably practice this in several keys.
    Last edited by KirkP; 11-05-2018 at 02:59 PM.

  16. #16
    I was thinking F too, to get away from the G and C rut.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Always worth looking a tune upon jazzstandards.com

    Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals (Sweet Lorraine)
    That was for folks that didn't read the first post in the thread, right?

  18. #18
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    Didn’t read the thread. Don’t care.

    EDIT: sorry that was meant to be a joke, but no-one thought it funny.

    As you were.
    Last edited by christianm77; 11-05-2018 at 11:25 AM.

  19. #19

    November 2018 - Sweet Lorraine

    You can watch me struggle getting this tune under my fingers as a solo piece in C. I need more time for improv ideas, but I thought I’d prime the pump on this thread. Why C? Why not? I’ll try other keys too.

    (A certain political figure thinks he invented the idiom “prime the pump” but I’ve been using it since I actual had to do it on my grandpa’s well. November 2018 - Sweet Lorraine)

  20. #20
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    #fakenews

    Nice version BTW.

  21. #21
    Oh, well done, Kirk! Great! When it's played like that it all makes sense :-)

  22. #22
    Kirk -

    It's occurred to me you might think I'm exaggerating or that I'm just saying it, etc. I'm not. I think that arrangement was better than some piano versions I've heard. Quite a few of them sound forced in places, especially with the repeated descending harmonies, and the solos likewise because they're geared to 'fit'.

    That arrangement (is it your own?) seems to clarify what's going on and make it tuneful. I liked it a lot, really.

  23. #23

    November 2018 - Sweet Lorraine

    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Kirk -

    It's occurred to me you might think I'm exaggerating or that I'm just saying it, etc. I'm not. I think that arrangement was better than some piano versions I've heard. Quite a few of them sound forced in paces, especially with the repeated chromatic descending harmonies, and the solos likewise because they're geared to 'fit'.

    That arrangement (is it your own?) seems to clarify what's going on and make it tuneful. I liked it a lot, really.
    That’s nice to hear. It’s my own arrangement. When working on solo arrangements, I try to listen to several versions spanning the life of the tune to get it under my skin. On this one I set the Amazon Music app to stream every version in its catalog and plugged in earphones as I went to sleep. November 2018 - Sweet Lorraine

    I looked at several charts to try to make sense of the changes. One of my favorites is “Anthologie des Grilles de Jazz” because it’s pretty close to vanilla. Then I found a chart for the tune in the iReal app and edited to make my own vanilla chart, as I posted above.

    I like to strip the harmony down to what I think is the essence based on the melody and definitive versions I’ve listened to. It’s an iterative process. I’ll use my vanilla chart to play along with recordings (using the iReal transpose feature), fix my errors, and make note of the ways various performers reharmonize parts of it. Going through that process helps me understand the tune much more that if I used someone else’s chart, and it gives me ideas for my own interpretation.

    When working on my own arrangement, I try to focus on the melody and bass lines and add just enough in-between notes to suggest the harmony. I like to think of the guitar as a choir, with voices that move somewhat independently. I’ve taken a few lessons from Tim Lerch and try to play somewhat in that style, but stripped down to my humble skill level. (By the way, Tim’s two downloadable solo albums are excellent & inspiring. Tim Lerch Store)

    In my listening, I ran across a couple of outstanding versions of Sweet Lorraine that are available on YouTube:
    Kenny Barron
    Till Bronner
    I won’t clutter this thread with the links, but they are worth looking up.
    Last edited by KirkP; 11-07-2018 at 02:54 PM.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    plugged in earphones as I went to sleep.
    Ah! The learn-while-you-snooze trick. It works too, the brain's far more receptive when not actively occupied.

    I looked at several charts to try to make sense of the changes. One of my favorites is “Anthologie des Grilles de Jazz” because it’s pretty close to vanilla. Then I found a chart for the tune in the iReal app and edited to make my own vanilla chart, as I posted above.

    I like to strip the harmony down to what I think is the essence based on the melody and definitive versions I’ve listened to. It’s an iterative process. I’ll use my vanilla chart to play along with recordings (using the iReal transpose feature), fix my errors, and make note of the ways various performers reharmonize parts of it. Going through that process helps me understand the tune much more that if I used someone else’s chart, and it gives me ideas for my own interpretation.

    When working on my own arrangement, I try to focus on the melody and bass lines and add just enough in-between notes to suggest the harmony.
    Time spent in reconnaissance... and it's certainly paid off :-)

  25. #25
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    While l listen to all your nice versions, in my head I keep hearing Malaika (Fadhili Williams, Miriam Makeba, Harry Belafonte, BoneyM ...)

    I do not think Loraine is based on 4 chords pop song. I think it's based on 3 chords.

    A: C G C G F G C G
    B: F F F F G G G G

    All together, it rminded me of couple of years ago and what I did with one other simple tune, Soleil Soleil/ Soley Soley (Middle of The Road, Nana Mouskouri, Dalida ... , our American friends probably have no clue about all these names ...). Soley ... has somewhat moody intro, but once it gets going .... Don't get me wrong, yes, it is lateral OT, but here it is:

    Last edited by Vladan; 11-10-2018 at 02:56 PM.
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  26. #26
    Your stuff's always fun, Vladan. Free trips round the place :-)

    I think it does go into Am from C and Dm from F though... those are very strong sounds.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post

    I think it does go into Am from C and Dm from F though... those are very strong sounds.
    Heart wants me there, but head says no.
    The only other chord I would rwally like to hear is G+ as the last chord of B:.

    BTW, I edited chords in previous post, to stay true to form.

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  28. #28
    Here's mine. Acoustic chords + electric solo (both on the ES175). Took a while to get my head round this one, in the end I tried to target the important chords and not get hung up on all those passing chords. Also thinking about the melody seemed to help.


  29. #29

    Or

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    Most charts I’ve found for this tune over-specify the chords with extensions, subs and turnarounds that I feel should be decided by the player (or arranger). I created this vanilla-ish chart that I’m using as a starting point. If I haven’t yet decided whether I want to play a chord as a maj6, maj7, or dom7 I’ll just name the triad. I’m experimenting with various extensions, subs and turnarounds as I play it. I’m posting in in case it’s useful to anyone else or if anyone wants to comment on it.

    At this point I’m resisting the temptation to turn everything possible into cycles of fifths. For example, the 2nd bar of the bridge could be played as
    | A-7 D7 G7 C7 |
    which makes a tidy cycle of fifths. But I like the open feel of fewer chords, especially when learning.
    Or eg. Am7 Abm7 Gm7 C7

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Here's mine ...
    I know I say it every time you post something, but I love the single note tone you're getting!

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by garybaldy View Post
    Or eg. Am7 Abm7 Gm7 C7
    Right—When you’re moving through the cycle of fifths you always have the option to do tritone subs, change minor-7ths to dominants, etc. ...As long as your bandmates are on the same page.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by M-ster View Post
    I know I say it every time you post something, but I love the single note tone you're getting!
    Thanks! As far as I know it’s largely down to picking technique, i.e. picking near the fingerboard and angling the pick so it doesn’t hit the string ‘flat side on’. On the 175 there’s a sort of convenient gap between the neck pickup and the fingerboard, I tend to pick there.

    Of course having a 175 doesn’t hurt but I don’t think the guitar is as important as people think. A couple of times I’ve let other jazz players play my guitar and they sounded nothing like me.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    Right—When you’re moving through the cycle of fifths you always have the option to do tritone subs, change minor-7ths to dominants, etc. ...As long as your bandmates are on the same page.
    Yeah, it's something I would infer when on bass stepping from a semitone above and possibly use a Gb under the C7. Wouldn't bother with explaining it to the others but always get a knowing grin from the guitarist who would invariably be doing something similar.

  34. #34
    It's gone quiet again so here's something in C.


  35. #35

    Sweet Lorraine




    Here is a monster guitar player , and very generous and kind man ...Mr. Mike Mckoy ...doing his face melting rendition of Sweet Lorraine...hang on to your hats !!!

  36. #36
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  37. #37
    Good one, M-ster. As usual. I liked the little bluesy fills. Good backing as well

  38. #38
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    Nice version M-ster.

    You inspire me to sit down and play around with the song.

  39. #39
    Had to revisit this...


  40. #40
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  41. #41
    Thanks, Vladan, I enjoyed that. Tons of enthusiasm! And a nice view of the jail :-)

    Vladan is an anagram of vandal... pure coincidence, naturally

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Thanks, Vladan, I enjoyed that. Tons of enthusiasm! And a nice view of the jail :-)

    Vladan is an anagram of vandal... pure coincidence, naturally
    thank you ragman1.

    I found "area of firearms use" signs the oddest thing there. Also, walls are not very high, just enough.
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  43. #43
    Are the guards armed like the American prisons? I thought I could see a watchtower.

    Actually, that place has a terrible history, especially during the war period. I'm supposing you were quite young at that time. God knows what it was like.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Are the guards armed like the American prisons? I thought I could see a watchtower.

    Actually, that place has a terrible history, especially during the war period. I'm supposing you were quite young at that time. God knows what it was like.
    Yes, there are watchtowers, but I do not know if there are any guards inside.
    During early '90s and civil war in former Yugoslavia, I was not that young, I am 51 at the moment, but for the good part of the period I was living abroad, so I do not have real connection with all of it.
    Terrible things happened, that much is certainly true.

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  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan View Post
    Yes, there are watchtowers, but I do not know if there are any guards inside.
    During early '90s and civil war in former Yugoslavia, I was not that young, I am 51 at the moment, but for the good part of the period I was living abroad, so I do not have real connection with all of it.
    Terrible things happened, that much is certainly true.
    I didn't think you were that old! Well done, you're obviously lasting well :-)

    I'm glad you weren't involved in the conflicts. All wars are bad but that one was very nasty.

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